Help me choose a turkey/duck gun

I just spoke with the friend who has the sbe2. He and his son are in SC turkey hunting an he killed a bird today using his sons sp10 and hes tellin me hes startin to think he wants a 10 gauge. Im like "dude, you bite!" as if this wasnt hard enough. I was just about to fall off the fence on the twelve gauge side!

Surely Jase isnt a 'nelly hater! who could hate such a fine firearm!
 
Laff'n.....

I bought my SP-10 for $700 IIRC. Ran it for just over a year and sold it. I enjoyed it, but I don't regret selling it.

Good luck !
 
OUCH! That just sounds painfull! The double barrels and pumps ive fired in 10 gauge werent bad, I dont think I want any part of an H & R singlel in 10ga!
 
Originally Posted By: GCjase,
You are shooting .070" of constriction with steel shot from your 10 gauge? And still getting patterns effective for long range waterfowl?

Thats right there seems to be a Sweet Spot with steel shot and choke constriction in most 10 and 12 a guns.
We found that no matter the gun.. .050"-.055" seems to be the place where you get your best patterns with most steel shot sizes in 10 and 12 ga guns.
There are exceptions like F steel ( in 10s ) that likes more choke and the .705 terror gets that done the best of the lot. , however as a general rule 050"-.055" constriction is good overall.
.675 constriction is .054 for the 12 ga
.720 constriction .055 for the 10 ga
Both work like magic with most steel shot sizes in either of these gauges.
As you go down to your sub gauge guns this is not always the case with steel shot..You need a bit more open choke with 16 or 20 ga...say .010 to .020 more open.
I don't know why or how it works but if you follow the .050-.055 rule with 10 or 12 ga guns you won't miss with choke tube selection ..

I would advise a terror tube in .720 for general use waterfowl and .705 for F steel of big lead terrors are a double taper choke and are clever technology for a lump of steel screwed in the end of the gun, talk to them the bloke hagar is approachable and what he dont know aint worth knowing.
If you are total skint/ brassic/ penyless and just cant raise the cash for a terror you can use your turkey chokes they will also work they are about the same makeup as extended waterfowl tubes.
The problem is Turkey chokes traditionally were made from softer steel because it was assumed only lead shot would be put through them.
Newer Turkey tubes that say you can shoot Hevi Shot through them will work with steel shot, you just have to constantlly watch the tube in case it starts to swell in the barrel.
Find out if the tube or packaging says it will safely shoot Hevi Shot..should be a harder grade of steel and do fine with steel shot.050"-.055" get your vernier out but me i would find some money get to SRM for a .720 or .705 depending on what i wanted to do.
 
Originally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeJase is a 'nelly hater I take it..lol
Just an ex owner that's all who got sick of the thing, sitting for hours in a creek bottom in chest waders waiting for the geese to move then finally when they do lift off you lift the gun move mount CLICK it slipped out and you never heard it because of the howling wind, that's not my idea of fun, and the middle finger if you try a snap shot at say a suddenly appearing teal and get the grip a little wrong it bites you, i had a permanent bruise on my finger during my Benelli years. Each to his own but not me ever again.
 
Ahhhh... that click. I've heard people talk about the Benellis getting knocked out of battery. They just don't slip out on there own . It would have to get bumped or caught on something for this to happen. Unless this is an old issuse with the older series, that I don't know of.
I've carried mine through miles and miles of brush, grass and corn feilds etc, with never a problem. Then again ,I always check my guns for things like that,no matter if it's a bolt gun ,semi-auto reguardless of brand. Must be the bow hunter in me, always checking to make sure my arrow is on the rest.
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** Not everyone can like or have the same thing. What would we talk about ?
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Originally Posted By: realtree hunterOriginally Posted By: wvyotehunter68Mossberg 835

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Thats what Im wanting to replace. Ive never been able get a satifactory pattern and Im tired or putting money into it. Besides, Im wantin an autoloader too.
What chokes/loads have you tried?The 835 is known for really good patterns.
 

Well I am late to the party, but add me to the former
Benelli SBE2, current Browning Gold 10, owners list.
I never could get decent patterns out of my SBE2, with
3.5" ammo, after a few investments in after market chokes,
and mine liked to jam in various ways, mostly in harsh
waterfowling conditions...Which is common in November in WI.

I won a fancy Beretta O/U in it's own velvet case, and decided
I didn't collect guns, I shoot them. So I traded that for
a Browning Gold 10. I had it for one season, and sold the
SBE2. That was more than a decade ago, and I still shoot
the Gold 10 for turkeys and ducks. I was on a new shotgun
spree last year, and purchased a Browning Citori 20 ga. and
a Browning Maxus 3.5". I talked myself into the Maxus because
it was lighter, and I wanted to fool around with 12 3.5"
shotshell loading again, to see if better results could be
had. The Maxus has a back bored barrel, with a lengthened
forcing cone, so I thought if there was such a thing as a
good patterning 12 3.5" gun, this could be it. I tested
commercially available ammo, and custom loaded ammo. The
Gold 10 still is at the top of the heap, but the improved
barrel geometry of the Maxus does show improvement on the
pattern board. The most impressive part of the Maxus
patterns was the uniformity. I NEVER got that pretty of
patterns from the SBE2. Still a few pellets less than the
10 ga. pellet count, but certainly less clumpy, and fewer
doughnut hole patterns. If I could only have one duck/turkey
gun, it would be a Browning Gold 10.

Squeeze
 
Squeeze, since you've had a couple 3.5" 12's, what's your take on them ? Are they needed or just run a 3" ?

The 10 should alaways pattern better than a big 12. Guys that have /had both know that....
 
3.5 inch12s are a little too long in the load/wad column to ever be perfect patterning but with work you can get loads to deliver even patterns acceptable for most types of hunting, but you will have to be prepared to put the time and money in to working up the loads, its one thing getting a off the shelf load to pattern out to 4oM but get out to 50 its starting to get tough and by 60M you are tearing your hair out. There is a lot of work goes in to getting shotguns to work at range.
I feel its easier to get a 2 3/4 oz or 3 inch load regardless of shot type to work from a 12 than it is a 3.5 inch, its kind of like the .410 skeet shooters with the 1/2 oz loads, the 2.5 inch is more even patterning than the over long 3 inch and despite the extra payload in a 3 inch .410 the 2.5 inch 1/2 oz load works effectively and is generally better patterning in most guns.
Back boring helps a little as does the moss berg over bore ten barrel basically a modern take on the old English chamberles 12s and 10s from the likes of T wild / bland /boss and rig by to name a few. these were bored thus to offer more effective long range patterns on wildfowl with soft felt wads of the day. the Mossberg idea works its true but is wad sensitive with steel in any case. The bigger the bore the better that bore tends to throw nice patterns be it .410 or a 4 ga bigger is better but you must work out what you are doing with the gun and just what is needed, a ten in this debate will offer better patterns and more knock down with bigger shot sizes, but the shooter and the load must do their bit too a ten is not a free meal but one heck of a menu to chose from.
 
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Originally Posted By: Bernie P.Originally Posted By: realtree hunterOriginally Posted By: wvyotehunter68Mossberg 835

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Thats what Im wanting to replace. Ive never been able get a satifactory pattern and Im tired or putting money into it. Besides, Im wantin an autoloader too.
What chokes/loads have you tried?The 835 is known for really good patterns.

Cant remember the constrictions but Ive used the MAD Max, the Jellyhead, Indian Creek (current), undertaker, patternmaster, factory, and Gobblin Thunder. All have been just off the shelf in whatever constriction they were sold in for that gun.

As far as ammo, Winchester supreme 4s, Winchester supreme 6s, federal 4s, federal 6s, federal 5s, Nitro 4x5x7s (best but not cheap) federal flite controls in 6 and 4, winchester extended range in 4s and 6s, Heavy shot 6s.

Ive fired almost every one of these rounds through each of the listed chokes. Im tired of tryin! next time I'm gonna pick a gun, and send it to someone that patterns for a living, its gotta be cheaper and easier on the shoulder.
 
Originally Posted By: Tim NeitzkeSqueeze, since you've had a couple 3.5" 12's, what's your take on them ? Are they needed or just run a 3" ?

The 10 should alaways pattern better than a big 12. Guys that have /had both know that....

Tim,

My take on the 12 ga. 3.5" is stick with the 3" 12 ga.
More shot piling into the choke makes marketing types
happy, but guys that count pellets, and look at pellet
distribution, not so much. Don't get me wrong, some
12 ga. 3.5" barrel/choke/load combinations do get decent
patterns on paper. And for slow moving stuff like turkeys,
and relatively speaking, coyotes, they may make sense.
But the length of the shot string in any long for the
gauge shot shell, loses effectiveness on fast moving
targets like ducks. Add in stiff winds, and the long
stringy shot string is even less effective.

The 12 ga. 3" shell is just about the perfect balance of
choke constriction and pellet column...Well maybe the
28 ga. 3/4 oz load is perfect, but the 12 ga/3" is pretty
close.
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Squeeze
 
Originally Posted By: jaseOriginally Posted By: GCjase,
You are shooting .070" of constriction with steel shot from your 10 gauge? And still getting patterns effective for long range waterfowl?

Thats right there seems to be a Sweet Spot with steel shot and choke constriction in most 10 and 12 a guns.
We found that no matter the gun.. .050"-.055" seems to be the place where you get your best patterns with most steel shot sizes in 10 and 12 ga guns.
There are exceptions like F steel ( in 10s ) that likes more choke and the .705 terror gets that done the best of the lot. , however as a general rule 050"-.055" constriction is good overall.
.675 constriction is .054 for the 12 ga
.720 constriction .055 for the 10 ga
Both work like magic with most steel shot sizes in either of these gauges.
As you go down to your sub gauge guns this is not always the case with steel shot..You need a bit more open choke with 16 or 20 ga...say .010 to .020 more open.
I don't know why or how it works but if you follow the .050-.055 rule with 10 or 12 ga guns you won't miss with choke tube selection ..

I would advise a terror tube in .720 for general use waterfowl and .705 for F steel of big lead terrors are a double taper choke and are clever technology for a lump of steel screwed in the end of the gun, talk to them the bloke hagar is approachable and what he dont know aint worth knowing.
If you are total skint/ brassic/ penyless and just cant raise the cash for a terror you can use your turkey chokes they will also work they are about the same makeup as extended waterfowl tubes.
The problem is Turkey chokes traditionally were made from softer steel because it was assumed only lead shot would be put through them.
Newer Turkey tubes that say you can shoot Hevi Shot through them will work with steel shot, you just have to constantlly watch the tube in case it starts to swell in the barrel.
Find out if the tube or packaging says it will safely shoot Hevi Shot..should be a harder grade of steel and do fine with steel shot.050"-.055" get your vernier out but me i would find some money get to SRM for a .720 or .705 depending on what i wanted to do.

Let me preface the following with this disclaimer - I am not a waterfowl hunter and do not shoot steel shot at anything. With that said, I do keep up with shotgunning a little and I do shoot a lot of tungsten turkey and predator loads along with large sizes of lead buckshot. Jase I am completely surprised that you shoot that much constriction (.070”) with large steel shot and get good patterns especially so if it is a high velocity load. That is interesting and counter to everything I have ever read or been told about safe and effective steel shot choke constrictions. That would also be counter to my experience with tungsten shot in BB and T-size. Though like you I have found a sweet spot of about .050” - .060” of constriction to the particular bore size (bore sizes vary by manufacturer even in the same gauge) works well for tungsten BB/T shot sizes and plated lead No. Four Buckshot. Go tighter and I shoot donut patterns blown in the center. If it works for you and you haven't had any issues good on ya, but it struck me as very odd when I read that.

Regarding the Benelli “click” I have hunted an M1S90 for a dozen plus years now dragging that thing through heavy timber and brush in all sorts of weather conditions and never experienced anything but complete and utter reliability. Can’t really fathom how that "click issue" happens. I will say this nearly all of the few Benelli malfunction issues I hear of happen with the SBE platform. The M1/M2 .12 gauge 3” guns seem bulletproof. I know my two Benelli M1’s have proven themselves absolutely reliable over the years in whatever situation I have them in and after thousands of shells fired. There is never a “click” with them because the bolt locks back after the last shell is fired!
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Tim,
No Vinci for me. My son likes his, but I’ll stick with what I know and feels most natural to me. As I said, he really likes his Vinci, but for me it would be all wrong.
 
Originally Posted By: GC
jase said:
GC said:
Go tighter and I shoot donut patterns blown in the center. If it works for you and you haven't had any issues good on ya, but it struck me as very odd when I read that.



We did find very similar effects with hard nickel platted lead loads of AAA through hastings turkey chokes in out SP10s and early golds and BPs 10s, this was also a problem with some very long straight tapper ported chokes we had made, but simply screwing in the 720 terror and ultimately the .705 stopped this effect completely and this gave us the idea to try it with F steel shot as the terrors are a steel shot choke we had no reason to worry about the no tighter than mod steel constriction rule.

this dougnutting effect was bad with the AAA size shot in 12ga too with full choke or greater hastings tubes, but by running AAAs+lead and t steel through an more open bored gun with chokes of around the .722 to .714 with a long parallel at the muzzle as you would get just by reaming from the breach of a full fixed choke, these set ups in 12s were surprisingly tight shooting with that size lead/ steel i still have a 3 inch franchi 32 inch we bored in just such a way it likes most size shot in steel or lead this barrel that is why i have hung on to it. Shotguns are fascinating and you never know just what any of them are going to do for sure but you can have a lot of fun finding out and sometimes you can learn something useful.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I just picked up a Browning maxus 26 inch that will be used for turkey mostly. I have had an Extrema2 and a SBE2, and the Maxus patterns much better than either of those two guns with turkey loads. I havent put coyote loads thru it yet, but based on how well it shoots the 3.5 inch turkey loads I imagine it will be outstanding.
 
My son-in-law has a Browning Maxus. It malfunctions with light loads. Maybe it isn't broken in yet, it only has about a flat of shells shot through it at the skeet/trap club.
 
I will throw a wrench in the mix!

Get you a 20 gauge of your choice. I like the 870 youth model, but the M2, Franchi Affinity, etc. are all good. Get you an Indian Creek or SumToy Customs choke. Run Hevi-13, Fed HWT or Nitro Ray shells.

I killed one two weekends ago 51 yards with Hevi 6's outta my 21" 870 with a SumToy .562-5 and he wouldn't have known any different being shot with a 10 gauge!
 
I just shot some trap with mine on Saturday for the first time and shot 100 rounds thru it. Function was flawless and I was smoking the birds. Funny thing, I missed my very first shot then hit 49 straight. It was a great day for me though. I probably shot about 20 turkey loads thru it since i bought it and firgured I'd play with it at my trap club. Maybe thats the secret...put some turkey rounds thru it...who knows.

Originally Posted By: GCMy son-in-law has a Browning Maxus. It malfunctions with light loads. Maybe it isn't broken in yet, it only has about a flat of shells shot through it at the skeet/trap club.
 
Originally Posted By: DamanI will throw a wrench in the mix!

Get you a 20 gauge of your choice. I like the 870 youth model, but the M2, Franchi Affinity, etc. are all good. Get you an Indian Creek or SumToy Customs choke. Run Hevi-13, Fed HWT or Nitro Ray shells.

I killed one two weekends ago 51 yards with Hevi 6's outta my 21" 870 with a SumToy .562-5 and he wouldn't have known any different being shot with a 10 gauge!



No wrenches please! Im having a hard enough time with the rest of the tools! (Im saving the 20 for when I can no longer stand the weight and recoil of the 10s and 12s
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) I must admit though, there has been some interesting reading the last couple of pages.
 
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