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#2472423 - 03/28/13 08:48 AM SAFE Act in NY: AR-15s can still be legal
DownWindOutdoors Offline
PM Sponsor

Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 75
Loc: New York, USA
Good morning,

I wanted to bring to light some thoughts that you are not going to hear from the mainstream media, you are not going to hear from politicians on either side fighting for votes, and you aren't going to hear from NRA or other gun groups urging membership.

Please consider the following as simply a thought requiring further analysis, and not legal advice. We are not lawyers and frankly, we are all hearing a lot of information as "fact" that could potentially only be furthering someone's agenda.

I believe you can still buy, register, build, and use AR-15s in New York. New. Post-"ban". (Granted, availability of parts is a whole another issue)

Those interested can review the legal technical mumbo jumbo on their own, but basically-

If you buy a stripped lower for a AR-15 platform, and equip it appropriately without any of the banned features, it is possible to complete your build and newly purchase, register, and build an AR. There is no explicit blanket ban on the AR-15.

So, for example- pistol grip is a banned feature. Substitute instead with a monster man grip, kydex wrap, hammerhead stock..etc No collapse-able stock..etc This is what makes the Mini 14 still legal and sold at shops.

Anyways, I thought it was important to express this point of view because the politicians are saying, AR-15s are banned, the media is saying they are banned. Even the NY gun hotline says "no, they are banned" and perhaps that is just the perception because 99% of them have these banned features, but that does not have to be the case as new customers look to build their guns. I thought my dream of owning an AR-15 was over after the SAFE act was passed, but it does not appear to be the case at all! Also, noted, it does seriously restrict my options because most all complete package AR-15s will have banned features, but hey, at least there is a way. Your thoughts?
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#2472440 - 03/28/13 09:34 AM Re: SAFE Act in NY: AR-15s can still be legal [Re: DownWindOutdoors]
mhammer Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 11/08/11
Posts: 151
Loc: NE
Maybe I am remembering wrong, but didn't they specifically name each company and their AR models? I hope that I am wrong and that you have found a loop-hole.

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#2472478 - 03/28/13 10:31 AM Re: SAFE Act in NY: AR-15s can still be legal [Re: mhammer]
Mr Potato Head Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 1088
Loc: Indiana
I wouldn't want to argue my case to some burr headed rookie state cop on the side of the road during a traffic stop. I've got a feeling you'd be posting bond soon.

Kind of like banning Corvettes and saying you can have one but it will come with three gears and a speed governor set at 55 MPH.

The whole law is BS and firearms owners in NY should be outraged and not accepting this crap.

You asked.
_________________________
"Leave the gun, take the cannoli."

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#2472559 - 03/28/13 12:34 PM Re: SAFE Act in NY: AR-15s can still be legal [Re: Mr Potato Head]
midwestpredator Online
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 03/14/12
Posts: 1733
Loc: nd
seems like asking for trouble...i wouldnt try it if a lawyer told me I was ok to do so. simply not worth the hassle and bloomberg has way more money than any of us. even if it were legal they will bury you in court and legal fees until you are broke.


Originally Posted By: Mr Potato Head
I wouldn't want to argue my case to some burr headed rookie state cop on the side of the road during a traffic stop. I've got a feeling you'd be posting bond soon.

Kind of like banning Corvettes and saying you can have one but it will come with three gears and a speed governor set at 55 MPH.

The whole law is BS and firearms owners in NY should be outraged and not accepting this crap.
You asked.


Ive already said it, more and more will fold and accept.
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#2472588 - 03/28/13 01:27 PM Re: SAFE Act in NY: AR-15s can still be legal [Re: mhammer]
DownWindOutdoors Offline
PM Sponsor

Registered: 07/30/10
Posts: 75
Loc: New York, USA
Originally Posted By: mhammer
Maybe I am remembering wrong, but didn't they specifically name each company and their AR models? I hope that I am wrong and that you have found a loop-hole.


Common misconception portrayed by the media. The old law named and banned many assault weapons by name, however that was replaced by general "rules" such as:

Assault rifle is defined as:

(A) A SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLE THAT HAS AN ABILITY TO ACCEPT A DETACHABLE
MAGAZINE AND HAS AT LEAST ONE OF THE FOLLOWING CHARACTERISTICS:

(I) A FOLDING OR TELESCOPING STOCK;
(II) A PISTOL GRIP THAT PROTRUDES CONSPICUOUSLY BENEATH THE ACTION OF
THE WEAPON;
(III) A THUMBHOLE STOCK;
(IV) A SECOND HANDGRIP OR A PROTRUDING GRIP THAT CAN BE HELD BY THE
NON-TRIGGER HAND;
(V) A BAYONET MOUNT;
(VI) A FLASH SUPPRESSOR, MUZZLE BREAK, MUZZLE COMPENSATOR, OR THREADED
BARREL DESIGNED TO ACCOMMODATE A FLASH SUPPRESSOR, MUZZLE BREAK, OR
MUZZLE COMPENSATOR;
(VII) A GRENADE LAUNCHER;


The entire changelog can be found here: http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/s2230-2013

And I am not saying I really want to be "that guy" and do something because I know it's technically legal and then fight to the bitter end in court and lose a lot of money in the process, but I do remember, with other gun bans such as the assault weapons ban that expired in 2004, and the ones in California, many people used these "loopholes" if that's what you want to call them, and were able to still buy their guns as desired. I do not know if many of them ended up in court or not, but I'm just bringing this to the attention of anyone who perhaps wanted to venture down that path. To me, which should not be considered as fact either, looks to be good.

The FACT of the matter is, you're right, its BS and needs to be appealed and these politicians need to address the real issues with real solutions.
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#2472596 - 03/28/13 01:46 PM Re: SAFE Act in NY: AR-15s can still be legal [Re: DownWindOutdoors]
Mr Potato Head Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 01/19/12
Posts: 1088
Loc: Indiana
Calling a chicken a peacock doesn't mean it's a peacock.
_________________________
"Leave the gun, take the cannoli."

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#2473139 - 03/29/13 01:49 AM Re: SAFE Act in NY: AR-15s can still be legal [Re: DownWindOutdoors]
Wallbass45 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 1559
Loc: Indiana
Forget it! Yours will have a Pistol Grip
_________________________

"I won’t be wronged, I won’t be insulted, and I won’t be laid a hand on." John Wayne

"Shoot at the Hair not the Fur" Me

Let’s make 2014 the year we take our country back!

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#2473201 - 03/29/13 08:44 AM Re: SAFE Act in NY: AR-15s can still be legal [Re: DownWindOutdoors]
Orneryolfart357 Offline
PM senior

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 7360
Loc: Oakley Ca.
This is from a place called 10 Percent Fire arms on the Monster Man Grip, with a NY update.


The MonsterMan Grip (PATENTED) was made by a Californian for OLL use. The CA DOJ defines a "pistol grip" in CCR 980.20(d) as "a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp in which the web of the trigger hand (between the thumb and index finger) can be placed below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger while firing." The MonsterMan Grip allows for the retention of the selector detent pin and spring while also preventing the web of the trigger hand from dropping below the top of the exposed portion of the trigger.
Is the MonsterMan Grip CA DOJ approved? Of course not. The manufacturer attempted to get CA DOJ approval, but was he told that it was up to the 58 DAs in the State of California to determine the legality of the MonsterMan Grip. As a result the maker of MonsterMan Grip makes no claim that this device is California legal nor can he be held responsible for its misuse. Ten Percent Firearms also makes the same claims.
In order to help facilitate the lawful use of this device, here is a reminder of the assault weapons rules.

12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.
So remember, if you are going to use a detachable magazine with the MonsterMan Grip, you cannot have any of the items A-F from above also on your rifle or you are committing a felony.
The MonsterMan also recommends that you purchase a ambidextrous selector switch in order to make operation of the safety with your trigger hand possible and to give your thumb something to rest on while using the MonsterMan Grip.

New York Update

With the passage of the New York State Safe Act, New Yorkers are now facing the same ineffective restrictions on their civil rights as us Californians. We are sorry to welcome you to the party. The good news is we have been dealing with this for years now and the same stupid politicians continue to make the same stupid laws.

First, New Yorkers need to understand the New York State Police do no make law. They have published a list named WEAPONS AFFECTED BY THE NEW GUN LAWS. IGNORE THIS LIST! The list is not law. Your state police are using a common anti-civil rights tactic called FUD (Fear, uncertainty, and doubt). They are going to scare you into giving up and registering your rifles. If your gun is on that list, it means nothing.

What does mean something is the actual law itself which can be found on that same website, but just in case we don't trust the state police to be an accurate conduit of the law, let's look at your actual law from the actual state senate's website.

If you scroll down through that law, you will find no list of firearms that will be illegal. What you will find is Penal Code Section 265 Subdivision 22 that states...

22. "Assault weapon" means(A) A SEMIAUTOMATIC RIFLE THAT HAS AN ABILITY TO ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE AND HAS AT LEAST ONE OF THE FOLLOWING CHARACTERISTICS:
(I) A FOLDING OR TELESCOPING STOCK;
(II) A PISTOL GRIP THAT PROTRUDES CONSPICUOUSLY BENEATH THE ACTION OF THE WEAPON;
(III) A THUMBHOLE STOCK;
(IV) A SECOND HANDGRIP OR A PROTRUDING GRIP THAT CAN BE HELD BY THE NON-TRIGGER HAND;
(V) A BAYONET MOUNT;
(VI) A FLASH SUPPRESSOR, MUZZLE BREAK, MUZZLE COMPENSATOR, OR THREADED BARREL DESIGNED TO ACCOMMODATE A FLASH SUPPRESSOR, MUZZLE BREAK, OR MUZZLE COMPENSATOR;
(VII) A GRENADE LAUNCHER;"

We at Ten Percent Firearms are working on getting an opinion from a firearms attorney in your state on whether they think the Monsterman Grip is a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon. First, you cannot get a pistol style grasp on the Monsterman Grip and in our opinion it does not protrude conspicuously. Further, we do not believe it is any different than the stock of the M1A or Mini-14.

Be sure to check out our Magpul PMag 10 round magazines that are also in stock.
_________________________
Don't be afraid to call a Spade a Spade!
Don't forget Proverbs 5:19
War is an Ugly thing! But Feinstien,Hillary, and Pelosi are much UGLIER!



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