Free floating barrel question on 700's

Acronin

New member
Ok, on another post I let everybody know about my troubles grouping my rem 700 in .243. The consensus was to free float my barrel. I agreed so I did exactly that.

So today I go to school (I'm a principal) and one of my friends/teachers tell me that Remington 700's are designed to not be free floated. He said there is an intentional pinch point and that free floating my bbl won't make it more accurate because of that.

I trust this guy as he shoots regularly, reloads and glass beds his own guns. Is there truth to what he is speaking?
 
Years ago, the ADL and BDL 700s had wood stocks with pressire points and usually worked OK.

The flimsy tuperware stocks (black plastic) almost always need to be opened up so that the bbl. isn't even close; Rem and Winchester.

The heavy varmint weight bbls. don't normally need the pressure point from a stock, be it wood (laminated or other) or the plastic stocks.

What some call pencil barrels (like on the rem mountain rifle) usually benefit from pressure near the tip, usually 5 to 7 pounds of upwards pressure. Be sure the pressure point doesn't add side pressure to the bbl.

Recently, I have worked with several of the Win and Rem rifles made for the "big box" stores, all with the cheap plastic stocks. None were accurate until the triggers were adjusted to reasonable weight AND the bbls. totally floated so that the stock was at least 1/32" away from the bbl.

Amazing to see how much side pressure some of the plastic stocks apply to the bbl.

Jim
 
I have owned a lot of Rem 700's and removed the pressure points and glass bedded the actions with steel bed. They all shot really really well. Since then I have started buying McMillan stocks for them and have gotten incredible results.
 
I am also looking to improve the accuracy of my model 700 in 243. Would it be worth it to get it glass bedded? Also about how much do the McMillan stocks cost you?
 
Originally Posted By: AcroninOk, on another post I let everybody know about my troubles grouping my rem 700 in .243. The consensus was to free float my barrel. I agreed so I did exactly that.

So today I go to school (I'm a principal) and one of my friends/teachers tell me that Remington 700's are designed to not be free floated. He said there is an intentional pinch point and that free floating my bbl won't make it more accurate because of that.

I trust this guy as he shoots regularly, reloads and glass beds his own guns. Is there truth to what he is speaking?




I disagree with your friend, generally.

Remingtons are like most other barreled actions, they like to be accurized. Free floating the barrel and bedding the action always improves accuracy, if done proper.

This is because of harmonics. The explosion of the powder charge along with the bullet traveling down the barrel creates harmonics in the barrel tube its self. Making these harmonic vibrations always the same, or consistent, is key to accuracy. The barrel vibrates in a orbital fashion in the direction of the rifling twist. When the bullet leaves the barrel muzzle at 12:00 one shot, then 8:00 the next you will see this on your target down range. That is why getting the bullet to always leave the muzzle at say 2:00 every time is so important to accuracy.

Any pressure point along the barrel can and most certainly will effect the harmonic vibration differently each time a bullet travels the length of the barrel. Having said that.

The only time I have seen pressure on the barrel work was with a 22-250 that I have with a sporter barrel and wood stock. It would not group well no matter what I did. Float, bed the action and every load combination under the sun resulted in poor accuracy. [1.5 to 2.0 inch groups @ 100yds. Then it was mentioned to me that placing a piece of rubber at the tip of the floated forend with a bit of up pressure on the barrel would most likely "settle it down". I tried this out of desperation, and it worked very well. That is the only time I have seen a pressure point work. Ever. I own more Rem 700,s than I care to admit and all of them respond favorable to free floating and bedding of the action except that one ADL. I will rebarrel it when I get around to it just because of this pressure point.

What is also odd, is that I have other sporter barrels that shoot better totally free floated than the one does with a rubber pressure point.



 
The SPS varmint stocks have molded "pads" on the inside of the stock that the barrel rests in. A lot of guys go in and sand them out trying to increase accuracy. In all reality the small amount of pressure they put on a 26" varmint taper is probably pretty minimal. I would leave them there because from what I have seen the pads give a more consistent sturdiness to the fore end with the gun on a bi-pod. If you free float the barrel the stock is then allowed to flex and bind easier then if they are left intact. Pressure or no, you can find a load that works with the harmonics no matter how its bedded and it will shoot well with or with out when you find the rifle's preferred load...
 
It's my opinion that if you have a wood stock, and want it to shoot the same in hot, cold, wet, or dry, it has to be glassed, pillard, and floated. This includes removing a bunch of wood from the forearm, and replacing it with glass. Float it with a generious gap around the barrel, like 1/8", with just a little pad under the chamber area in front of the lug. I also like pillars as wood can compress around the screw area over time. Glass in the forearm stiffens it, and keeps it from warping.
 
Originally Posted By: MPFDThe SPS varmint stocks have molded "pads" on the inside of the stock that the barrel rests in. A lot of guys go in and sand them out trying to increase accuracy. In all reality the small amount of pressure they put on a 26" varmint taper is probably pretty minimal. I would leave them there because from what I have seen the pads give a more consistent sturdiness to the fore end with the gun on a bi-pod. If you free float the barrel the stock is then allowed to flex and bind easier then if they are left intact. Pressure or no, you can find a load that works with the harmonics no matter how its bedded and it will shoot well with or with out when you find the rifle's preferred load...



This would lead you back to the days when some thought that bedding the action and the length of the forend was the way to go. It does not work to bed the barrel.

I think Remington does this to firm up their crappy stocks using the barrel as a crutch. Dumb Dumb Dumb. There are ways to firm up one of those stocks, believe me I did it with the Hogue, but resting the stock's inadequacies on the barrel is a no win situation.
 
These two three shot groups were made with a 700 SPS Varmint. It's a 7-08 right out of the box with trigger adjustment only. No stock work what so ever.
CBA127F2-BC14-4D8B-B724-4AD26F649F65-7877-00000D59F69D2D20_zpsa59720db.jpg
 
The trouble with Rems SPSV stock pressure point is that depending on where you rest the forend of the rifle, the pressure on the barrel will change. Shoot it off a bipod on the same sling swivel at the range and it will be pretty consistent. Rest it on a tree limb near the mag and who knows what will happen. Properly free floated, all of those variables disappear, or should.

All that said, my factory 22-250 spsv would do 1/2" at 100 with 2 out of 3 factory loads I tried in it. I recently free floated, bedded it, and upgraded the scope. Adjusted the trigger the 2nd day I owned it. Just rolled some hand loads tonight, hope to make a pdog have a really bad day at 500+ yds.
 
I'm pretty sure I'm going to glass bed the stock, but I want to see if the free floating helped at all. This is a late 60's early 70's bdl. I didn't encounter a "pinch point" or "padding" anywhere within the stock. It's original stock.
 
Just curious but, does the older model seem to have a larger barrel contour than the newer Rem. 700 sporters? I was thinking about looking for one used. I bought one of the 700 aac-sd 308 models and put it in a B&C Medalist A2 stock and had very good fit, finish, and consistency in groups.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: JimOliverYears ago, the ADL and BDL 700s had wood stocks with pressire points and usually worked OK.

The flimsy tuperware stocks (black plastic) almost always need to be opened up so that the bbl. isn't even close; Rem and Winchester.

The heavy varmint weight bbls. don't normally need the pressure point from a stock, be it wood (laminated or other) or the plastic stocks.

What some call pencil barrels (like on the rem mountain rifle) usually benefit from pressure near the tip, usually 5 to 7 pounds of upwards pressure. Be sure the pressure point doesn't add side pressure to the bbl.

Recently, I have worked with several of the Win and Rem rifles made for the "big box" stores, all with the cheap plastic stocks. None were accurate until the triggers were adjusted to reasonable weight AND the bbls. totally floated so that the stock was at least 1/32" away from the bbl.

Amazing to see how much side pressure some of the plastic stocks apply to the bbl.

Jim

Just curious has to how one would go about measuring the 5-7 pounds of upwards pressure?
 
You will NEVER see a rifle that was built for accuracy, have ANY of the barrel being touched by part of the stock, or glass bedding compound - float the barrel from the front of the lug forwards - in other words - float the whole thing.

No barrel shoots better with a part of the stock touching it - the pad is there to make it easy to align a cheap stock, cuz sometimes, cheap stocks don't align properly and look bad... and it is the first thing you should remove.

Pillars? They look cute, but glass the action and forget about pillars - they add nothing, and can make things worse with wood stocks, and they are redundant in aluminum bodied stocks.


.
 
Looking over several of the new rifles made today, I often wonder if they could make a cheaper POS?

That is one of the reasons I prefer buying older used firearms. Man I hate that gravel blasted finish Rem puts on the SPS models. Working the action on one of them compared to an older ADL/BDL with a real blued finish, one feels like someone through in a handful of sand in the action.
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooterYou will NEVER see a rifle that was built for accuracy, have ANY of the barrel being touched by part of the stock, or glass bedding compound - float the barrel from the front of the lug forwards - in other words - float the whole thing.

No barrel shoots better with a part of the stock touching it - the pad is there to make it easy to align a cheap stock, cuz sometimes, cheap stocks don't align properly and look bad... and it is the first thing you should remove.

Pillars? They look cute, but glass the action and forget about pillars - they add nothing, and can make things worse with wood stocks, and they are redundant in aluminum bodied stocks.


.

I agree, but with the cheap plastic stocks that come on these rifles, I think the first thing you should do is "replace it" with a quality stock and then make sure its floated to the lug.
 
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Factory SPS stock with pressure point

500 yards
1104121520a.jpg



After market stock, barrel is now free floated

510 yards
0312131930_zps4d4b5292.jpg


I dont think you can go wrong having it free floated
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooter
Pillars? They look cute, but glass the action and forget about pillars - they add nothing, and can make things worse with wood stocks, and they are redundant in aluminum bodied stocks.


.

I disagree about pillars in wood stocks. Properly installed pillars will prevent the wood from being compressed over time and can provide a more reliable bedding for the action versus wood which can swell or shrink depending upon the weather.
 
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