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#2459791 - 03/12/13 12:52 PM Government Trappers
Nebraska Yote Offline
New Member

Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 9
Loc: Western Nebraska
I am not opposed to fed trappers helping out a lot of people with critters, however I have one trapping some of the same ground that I trap. This concerns me due to the fact that in my mind at least it is a lot easier to get a coyote with poison rather than a foothold. The guy is nice enough to not run his line right on top of mine but he is also all around me. I was really concerned at the beginning of season when I learned about all this. However the land owner gave me choice of where I wanted to trap and I took all the land that we would be calving cows on since that is where most coyote sign is. There is just something irritating about it, he only comes out once a week maybe to check his traps, and how many sets of mine are not getting worked because the Yote that was on its way there is dead with a mouthful of poison. The land owner did not request the government trapper either , his foreman did that has no clue about trapping in general he thought he could just go out and buy the poison and do it himself. Am I over reacting? Would love to hear from some gov trappers on what you would do in this situation, and everyone else's opinion.

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#2459809 - 03/12/13 01:33 PM Re: Government Trappers [Re: Nebraska Yote]
EJ Reichenbach Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 03/02/10
Posts: 2656
Loc: Wyoming
I have never had to deal with them the ranch I trap is inside of a reservation, so there is no predator control, good for me but bad for the ranchers

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#2459816 - 03/12/13 01:47 PM Re: Government Trappers [Re: Nebraska Yote]
Tbone-AZ Offline
PM senior

Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 6884
Loc: AZ, Phoenix
I had a run in with one of them this year too.. I don't like it.
I think it's wrong.. For this reason.. If a rancher is having issues then they should pay to take care of it, since it's their land, or pay/allow a trapper to come in and take care of the issue.
I don't like having to pay, and pay for his salary, to kill animals that i am paying to hunt.

I don't take it out on the trappers, they are just trying to work too.

But there is something wrong about our taxes and lic. fee's paying for the goverment to do what i am trying to do. I also don't like that they don't have to follow the same rules.. THey can set traps and leave them for days, use poison, spotlight at night, and shoot from the air. I can't do that, but it's OK for me to have to pay for someone to do that as my compition.
What really got me fired up about it is that the trapper was out doing this on public land. (he was doing it for the state so they could plant some Ferret, once they removed the predators, completely stupid)
I also have another area that i like to hunt that was blown this year, because a few days before a friend and I were going to go hunt it, the State was out airial shooting them and leaving them lay on the ground over a private ranch.
Fish and Game shouldn't cry about money and how they need more, if they have money to fly over private ranches and shoot coyotes, or pay to have a government trapper kill everything in a area, so they can plant a ferret..
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#2459858 - 03/12/13 03:34 PM Re: Government Trappers [Re: Nebraska Yote]
Tbone-AZ Offline
PM senior

Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 6884
Loc: AZ, Phoenix
Here is a group that appears to be anti-Coyote hunting.. It's kind of funny to see how ignorant they are.

but even they are anti Government hunters too.
http://www.projectcoyote.org/
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Have fun being an [beeep].. I hope it's all you hoped for.

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#2459860 - 03/12/13 03:45 PM Re: Government Trappers [Re: Nebraska Yote]
Shurshot Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 06/23/12
Posts: 1276
Loc: Ohio
with all the stories on that link it is starting to make sense to me why fur prices have gone up. speculators may be thinking it may be outlawed or something and buying up the fur... I suppose time will tell if that thought holds any water.

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#2460437 - 03/13/13 10:05 AM Re: Government Trappers [Re: Tbone-AZ]
Nebraska Yote Offline
New Member

Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 9
Loc: Western Nebraska
New update he told the ranch manager that he has only got three I can handle that. Maybe poison is not as easy as I thought ha ha.

[quote=Tbone-AZ]
I don't like having to pay, and pay for his salary, to kill animals that i am paying to hunt.

That is the worst part I work on this ranch as well as run my own cows on it but do not own the land.

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#2460541 - 03/13/13 12:44 PM Re: Government Trappers [Re: Nebraska Yote]
phutch30 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/18/10
Posts: 540
Loc: MT
Are you sure he's using poison? None of the wildlife service guys I know use it. Just traps and shooting.

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#2460561 - 03/13/13 01:18 PM Re: Government Trappers [Re: phutch30]
seaj Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/18/12
Posts: 207
Loc: Suffolk Virginia
I see it as another way for the gov't to steal dollars out of our pockets. It would nice if the Gov TRAPPERS earn their salary and give the critters to the landowners to do as they please....but poison is the lazy way out....even the Gov't should abide by ethics
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#2460582 - 03/13/13 01:45 PM Re: Government Trappers [Re: Nebraska Yote]
Tbone-AZ Offline
PM senior

Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 6884
Loc: AZ, Phoenix
I don't know if poison is the lazy way.. But i will say that it works..

Those old M88 canisters that you would smear with bait to get the coyotes to bite it worked..

I think the poison in measured ways could be the way to deal with hogs..
The hogs are good to shoot and their populations are growing, but for the farmers, there is a way to use some types of posion that are very effective and would be the way to get that kind of problem under control.

Our Grandfathers used what works, and they were able to deal with the issues of the time. They didn't handcuff themselves like we do..

Again my biggest issue is that Government trappers are allowed to use methods that are Illegal for hunters, or even trappers, and I don't like as a tax payer, paying for someone to handle the animals on someones land. The Governmnent doesn't come to my house and paint it for me, they shouldn't charge me to take care of a ranchers coyotes. Maybe if they stopped this there would be more of an incentive for ranchers to open up some of their land to responsible trappers or hunters.
_________________________
Have fun being an [beeep].. I hope it's all you hoped for.

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#2460680 - 03/13/13 04:15 PM Re: Government Trappers [Re: Nebraska Yote]
borkon Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 4141
Loc: minnesota
i don't think anyone uses "poison" anymore. they do use m44's which is a cyanide capsule the "shoots" into a coyotes mouth but is extremly fast/letal
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#2460733 - 03/13/13 06:01 PM Re: Government Trappers [Re: Tbone-AZ]
Chilson Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 653
Loc: ozona TX
Originally Posted By: Tbone-AZ
I don't know if poison is the lazy way.. But i will say that it works..

Those old M88 canisters that you would smear with bait to get the coyotes to bite it worked..

I think the poison in measured ways could be the way to deal with hogs..
The hogs are good to shoot and their populations are growing, but for the farmers, there is a way to use some types of posion that are very effective and would be the way to get that kind of problem under control.

Our Grandfathers used what works, and they were able to deal with the issues of the time. They didn't handcuff themselves like we do..

Again my biggest issue is that Government trappers are allowed to use methods that are Illegal for hunters, or even trappers, and I don't like as a tax payer, paying for someone to handle the animals on someones land. The Governmnent doesn't come to my house and paint it for me, they shouldn't charge me to take care of a ranchers coyotes. Maybe if they stopped this there would be more of an incentive for ranchers to open up some of their land to responsible trappers or hunters.


first off the coyote getter was before the m-44 it was pretty much the same except it used a fireing pin to set a 38 shell loaded with sodium cynanide into the coyotes saliva glands when pulled it is virtualy the same as the m-44s today except the m-44s are spring loaded cyanide kills quickly under ten seconds no more then 15 generaly. toxicants like strichnine and compound 1080 are no longer legal with the exception of compound 1080 used in livestock protection collars which is strapped to a "bait" herd of sheep or goats and when the killinf canines puctures the neck he also punctures the plastic pounch filled with compound 1080 thus killing the offending animal it is a direct way to target the canine. m-44s are a useful tool they kill quickly that is why they can be checked less but m-44s are not more effctive then the foothold trap some of you feel they are youre simply wrong they are just a tool that worked in areas where frequent checks could move coyotes that are killing or pose a threat. And actualy m-44s can be used bye private applicators you have to go thru pretty the same certification and trainign and follow the hundres of ridiculous laws we do when useing them........if we are in violation we stand the chance of thousands of dallors in fines and it has happend. Im sorry some of you feel that ranchers should just let every tom dick and harry in who sayes hes a responsible hunter or trapper the landowwners do pay for these services thru commodity boards or head roll taxes and an agreement between them and the usda as well as the county and state is needed. im sorry you guys feel like gov trappers are takeing something away from you. Its my job to kill coyotes and predators that are causeing depradation on livestock.. i do not know about other states and there regulations perhaps you guys should do some asking around. i figured id clear a few things up people have wild ideas on things these days im not going to argue with anyone of you i got a job to do and thats killing coyotes lions fox and cats that are killing livrstock.............there is an option thew type less hunt and trap more
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#2460740 - 03/13/13 06:22 PM Re: Government Trappers [Re: Chilson]
Tbone-AZ Offline
PM senior

Registered: 10/04/12
Posts: 6884
Loc: AZ, Phoenix
Originally Posted By: Chilson
Originally Posted By: Tbone-AZ
I don't know if poison is the lazy way.. But i will say that it works..

Those old M88 canisters that you would smear with bait to get the coyotes to bite it worked..

I think the poison in measured ways could be the way to deal with hogs..
The hogs are good to shoot and their populations are growing, but for the farmers, there is a way to use some types of posion that are very effective and would be the way to get that kind of problem under control.

Our Grandfathers used what works, and they were able to deal with the issues of the time. They didn't handcuff themselves like we do..

Again my biggest issue is that Government trappers are allowed to use methods that are Illegal for hunters, or even trappers, and I don't like as a tax payer, paying for someone to handle the animals on someones land. The Governmnent doesn't come to my house and paint it for me, they shouldn't charge me to take care of a ranchers coyotes. Maybe if they stopped this there would be more of an incentive for ranchers to open up some of their land to responsible trappers or hunters.


first off the coyote getter was before the m-44 it was pretty much the same except it used a fireing pin to set a 38 shell loaded with sodium cynanide into the coyotes saliva glands when pulled it is virtualy the same as the m-44s today except the m-44s are spring loaded cyanide kills quickly under ten seconds no more then 15 generaly. toxicants like strichnine and compound 1080 are no longer legal with the exception of compound 1080 used in livestock protection collars which is strapped to a "bait" herd of sheep or goats and when the killinf canines puctures the neck he also punctures the plastic pounch filled with compound 1080 thus killing the offending animal it is a direct way to target the canine. m-44s are a useful tool they kill quickly that is why they can be checked less but m-44s are not more effctive then the foothold trap some of you feel they are youre simply wrong they are just a tool that worked in areas where frequent checks could move coyotes that are killing or pose a threat. And actualy m-44s can be used bye private applicators you have to go thru pretty the same certification and trainign and follow the hundres of ridiculous laws we do when useing them........if we are in violation we stand the chance of thousands of dallors in fines and it has happend. Im sorry some of you feel that ranchers should just let every tom dick and harry in who sayes hes a responsible hunter or trapper the landowwners do pay for these services thru commodity boards or head roll taxes and an agreement between them and the usda as well as the county and state is needed. im sorry you guys feel like gov trappers are takeing something away from you. Its my job to kill coyotes and predators that are causeing depradation on livestock.. i do not know about other states and there regulations perhaps you guys should do some asking around. i figured id clear a few things up people have wild ideas on things these days im not going to argue with anyone of you i got a job to do and thats killing coyotes lions fox and cats that are killing livrstock.............there is an option thew type less hunt and trap more



I don't hold the Federal hunters in hostile regaurds... I personally sat and talked to the one that I ran into for an hour asking him what he was doing and how, and he was doing the same.. Both learning from each other.
I get that the department is funded by taxes, but the issue is that those taxes don't fully fund since they go into the general fund and also raise the price of meat.

I also think that it's not right if the trappers can use methods that non-goverment people cannot. If they were playing by the same rules, I don't have an issue with the Program.. But I also say the program and not the individual. I understand that anyone can get the permit to gas, or poision.
But a hunter/trapper cannot posion, or trap on public lands, nor can they Spotlight in the truck in all regions of the state.

But my bigger point is that there are methods out there that would work to limit or deal with problem issues as long as we don't confine ourselves into a box. Our Grandpa's didn't limit themselves, and the Government control tells us how we have to do things, but they don't know how to run a ranch or farm. cyanide and strichnine work and can be an effective tool, adn I am sorry, i knew it was a m44 and not the 88. Furadan would take care of the hog issue and works better than the other two discussed, but we have banned it.

Dispite all this, thank you Chilson, for sharing your wealth of information.
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Have fun being an [beeep].. I hope it's all you hoped for.

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#2460769 - 03/13/13 06:55 PM Re: Government Trappers [Re: Nebraska Yote]
Chilson Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 653
Loc: ozona TX
like ya said toxicants were effective especialy 1080 it was the only thing that came close to severly lowering the coyote pupulation. as far as public land i dont realy know i dont work public land where im at diffrent states have diffrent laws and regs here we work private and can only work ranches that have an agreement with us the chopper airplane etc is just a tool i dont like to use it often its effective but can be overdone real quick plus its expensive in this outfit paperwork and the chopper can get a guy fired there are many private contractractos who work with us from the landowners perspective why wouldnt you use smething you pay a a certain amount per head into anyhow? it canbe effective on coyotes hogs and reds but can be overdone.......were pretty careful on that persoanly my best tools are the foothold trap and snares calling these coyotes in crockett isnt as effective we dont have a ton of coyotes the ones here have seen a good bit of just about everything for the most part they are highly educated........not many people have succesfuly called in coyotes let alone one in here........now on cats its a heck of a tool especialy at night spotlighting in texas is legal on private land..........i dont know arionas laws but i do know trapping on public land was banned bye a popullar vote i hope that doesnt happen at home in new mexico theres some things i agree the goverment should not be allowed to do over private citizens but this is a service here anyways for ranchers who pay in. depreadation raises the price of meat wool etc less supply increases demand which also increases price plus feed transport and wages for the hands also raises it. i work for the goverment.......that dont mean i trust them i agree with some of the points youve made here i dont know about your state and public land but i guess if i was private again or still fur trapping id be asking wuestions to i have had alot of competition its part of it all but some gys are working a problem animal or animals instead of just takeing numbers thats one thing to remember


Edited by Chilson (03/13/13 07:00 PM)
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#2460826 - 03/13/13 08:16 PM Re: Government Trappers [Re: phutch30]
Nebraska Yote Offline
New Member

Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 9
Loc: Western Nebraska
Yes I am sure he is using poison,he has got two of the ranch dogs with it.

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#2460899 - 03/13/13 09:37 PM Re: Government Trappers [Re: borkon]
Nebraska Yote Offline
New Member

Registered: 02/03/13
Posts: 9
Loc: Western Nebraska
Originally Posted By: borkon
i don't think anyone uses "poison" anymore. they do use m44's which is a cyanide capsule the "shoots" into a coyotes mouth but is extremly fast/letal




Sorry for the loose term " poison " must be my hillbilly education to think that cyanide was poison. He is infact using M44's to eradicate the target species as well as its domestic version.

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