Annealing???

midwestpredator

midwestpredator

Active member
Tried my hand at annealing some 223 brass for the first time. So did I ruin 50pcs or what?? How do you know if you ruin one? I annealed and now im going to size, is it better to do it the other way around or no big deal either way?

0218130336a_zps850c0e8c.jpg



The top 4 are from the same batch of brass just not annealed

0218130344_zps641a2763.jpg
 
From the looks of the bottom batch in the second picture, you may have heated them a little too low from the neck, but not far enough to really hurt them...Unless you start getting split necks/cases that would indicate not enough heat, firing them will not hurt them...

It's always a good idea to bend a paper clip for checking the inside of the cases to determine if you can feel any cracks that may be starting on the inside after they have been fired a few times..

I always consider the annealing process to be the first step in the processing procedure...
 
You are right ... anneal 1st, then resize. They should be fine. Did you take any measures to keep the heat from getting the head of the cases to hot? ... like dropping them in water. What was your method? Just curious.
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Originally Posted By: midwestpredator
Tried my hand at annealing some 223 brass for the first time. So did I ruin 50pcs or what?? How do you know if you ruin one? I annealed and now im going to size, is it better to do it the other way around or no big deal either way?



You did just fine...

They came out beautiful.

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I used a propane bernzomatic with a socket in my drill then dumped cases in water.

I ran a test load with some. Nosler varmageddon and best group was 1.5in at 100yrds. I noticed some split necks afterward on some 3-4x brass so i figured id try annealing and see if that helps with anything.

Going to play with seating depth some and see if i can shrink something to sub moa.

Thanks
 
I annealed some brass last night, I did the same thing, you did only I turned the lights out and when the necks got glowing red I dumped them in the water. They look exactly like yours color and all, I almost thought I didnt get them hot enough.

I would like to know how hot Lapua gets there brass cuz it comes out really dark.
 
Originally Posted By: EJ Reichenbach
"I would like to know how hot Lapua gets there brass cuz it comes out really dark."

Pretty damm dark. The heat when they anneal changes the surface of the brass to a matt finish.

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Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: EJ Reichenbach
"I would like to know how hot Lapua gets there brass cuz it comes out really dark."

Pretty damm dark. The heat when they anneal changes the surface of the brass to a matt finish.

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That would have to be pretty damg hot wouldn't it? I did my 243 and 300 RUM brass and the 243 didn't get nearly the color that the 300 brass did starting to think I need to redo it.
 
Originally Posted By: EJ ReichenbachI annealed some brass last night, I did the same thing, you did only I turned the lights out and when the necks got glowing red I dumped them in the water. They look exactly like yours color and all, I almost thought I didnt get them hot enough.

I would like to know how hot Lapua gets there brass cuz it comes out really dark.

Glowing red is too hot--- I heat them with a small propane torch just until I see the color change just start to creep down the neck and drop them into a can of water. I hardly ever get a neck split using this method and I do think it increases accuracy by keeping neck tension consistent.
 
Originally Posted By: midwestpredatorTried my hand at annealing some 223 brass for the first time. So did I ruin 50pcs or what?? How do you know if you ruin one? I annealed and now im going to size, is it better to do it the other way around or no big deal either way?

0218130336a_zps850c0e8c.jpg



The top 4 are from the same batch of brass just not annealed

0218130344_zps641a2763.jpg


These brass look fine to me, take a look at factory Lapua .260 brass they appear identical in color.
 
Originally Posted By: .17 PredatorOriginally Posted By: EJ ReichenbachI annealed some brass last night, I did the same thing, you did only I turned the lights out and when the necks got glowing red I dumped them in the water. They look exactly like yours color and all, I almost thought I didnt get them hot enough.

I would like to know how hot Lapua gets there brass cuz it comes out really dark.
Glowing red is too hot---



... and you say that why??? Cuz you read it somewhere, or you have actually done it? If the latter, what were the bad consequences.

Red hot is not too hot.

Many people heat necks and shoulders until they are red hot and there are no bad consequences -


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Any annealing questions can be answered by visiting the 6mmbr site, search "the art and science of annealing" this is where I started when looking into annealing along with 10years of experience from my uncle. They explain the dos and don'ts and reasons why, also they debunk some of the myths and old methods. Be careful starting out, it can be dangerous if not done correctly , normaly glowing red is too hot! Just starting to change color is correct, I highly recommend using tempalaq or a temp crayon in the 700 degree range till you get the hang of it. Good luck Vt coy caller
 
Ha first post and another know it all. Read this here and there. When you anneal do u do it in low light. It doesn't take long to make it red, brass will begin to turn red when it reaches 450 degrees.
 
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Brass will begin to glow a faint orange at about 950 degrees (F). Even if the heating is stopped at a couple of hundred degrees below this temperature, the damage has been done--it will be too soft. From this discussion we can see that there are four considerations concerning time and temperature:

note that I did say "normaly" not implying that anybody is doing anything wrong, just want to avoid having a new annaeler have a bad experience, better to start a bit on the conservative side
 
Originally Posted By: vt coy caller.
Brass will begin to glow a faint orange at about 950 degrees (F). Even if the heating is stopped at a couple of hundred degrees below this temperature, the damage has been done--it will be too soft.

Somebody better break the news to Doug Giraud.
He recommends using 750 degree Tempilaq with his annealer.

http://www.giraudtool.com/Annealer%20IB.pdf
 
The author of the article wants his necks to retain some spring back of the brass. He is a benchrest guy, and sometimes they go nuts.
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Originally Posted By: vt coy callerAny annealing questions can be answered by visiting the 6mmbr site, search "the art and science of annealing" this is where I started when looking into annealing along with 10years of experience from my uncle. They explain the dos and don'ts and reasons why, also they debunk some of the myths and old methods. Be careful starting out, it can be dangerous if not done correctly , normaly glowing red is too hot! Just starting to change color is correct, I highly recommend using tempalaq or a temp crayon in the 700 degree range till you get the hang of it. Good luck Vt coy caller

Thanks!! I have read that also. Another good source of info is (google) Ken Light annealing. Better armed with knowledge than good old boy -been there done that-mentality. I stick by glowing red is too hot the spring is gone from the case and accuracy suffers. I anneal and have annealed for about 20 years (.220 Swift,.17 Predator,.17 Remington,.223 and on and on) not my first rodeo. Unfortunate when the old timers can't learn from a more knowledgeable newcomer. 800F is ideal 950F(glowing) is too hot and ruins cases.
 
I have yet to hear what is too hot, and how is brass ruined, and what are the symptoms.

For those guys that say some temperature is too hot, how do you measure it since the templaq is not at the neck, but further down on the body.

How do you know it is ruined - do you use a hardness gauge and measure it... just exactly WHAT is too soft - and for what purpose - the benchrest guy doesn't need hardly any grip on the bullet, and many set their guns up so the neck barely holds the bullet, and the chamber/throat is used for the final seating... but the guy that loads a bunch of cartridges and throws them in his coat pocket for a season, needs much more "grip"...

.. so exactly WHAT are you talking about... in real numbers.

I have ~300 Remington 22-250 cases that have been through 5 barrels, and are now being prep'ed for the sixth - they have been annealed (until the neck was dark red hot) every 5 or 6 loads... and they have been loaded and fired about 45 times EACH.

So, since I have heated them to red hot, they must be ruined by some accounts - so when can I expect them to fail and go south???

I DO own a hardness gauge and I do own an infrared long distance thermometer - what are you guys using to make your decisions, since templaq is crude at best, and doesn't even read the site you are interested in.

It's unfortunate when the less knowledgeable new kids can't learn from old guys that have done this stuff for years and have already learned the pitfalls from doing it, instead of thinking they know it by reading about it.


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