OFF the LANDS

R

Ricky Bobby

New member
Currently doing some load development for a new Remmy LVSF chambered in the wonderful .204 & have reached a point where I have found a load that may have good potential. Anyway, time to start playing with bullet seating depth ... right? Well, I perform the split case with bullet trick to find the lands of my rifle & came up with 2.446" COAL. My current load has a COAL of 2.314". According to my math I'm .132" off the lands, which seems like a lot, but this load is shooting 5 shot groups @ 100 yards off my bench in an inch or a little less.

I guess I really have 2 questions: 1 ~ How far off the lands have you been before ... with a good load? 2 ~ When I start playing with the seating depth, would you recommend getting closer or farther away from the lands?

For your info this load is as follows: 25.3 grs of A2460 with a 39 gr Sierra BlitzKing bullet & Remmy BR 7 1/2 small rifle primers.
 
Unless you have a custom cut chamber, most .204s have a fairly long jump to the lands....It doesn't seem to affect accuracy in a negative manner, so I would work on the most accurate load and call it good...

My custom cut AR was purposely cut to allow .030" to .035" jump, depending on my bullet choice...My Savage and CZ have considerably longer jumps, but I have had no problems working up accurate loads with almost identical component factors...
 
I'm in the same boat as Tim on starting depth, seems I hardly ever change it.

I once had a 7STW that had a looooonng throat. If I seated bullets to the lands in that rifle the loaded round would have been a full 1/4 inch too long to even fit in the mag. Even with the long jump that rifle was amazing and would tear a single hole in the paper at 100 yards with the old 139gr Hornady spire points.

You can get a long throated chamber to shoot. It takes some time and a few different bullet and powder combinations but it can be done.
 
Same as Tim and Furhunter,just kissing the lands,get a ogive measurement if you can its much more repeatable measurement.After about 200 rounds you might wanna check your distance to lands again.
 
I did some load development for the same gun. I loaded them as long as i could and still fit in the mag. You wont get too the lands with that light of a bullet and still have enough bullet in the case. I tried the 39gr bk and the gun shot 3/4moa. It liked the 32bk way better. Groups shrank to 5/16-3/8" avg.
 
Unless you have a custom chamber, it will be impossible to reach the lands. What OldTurtle said is the best plan.

Shoot what shoots the best. The 204 usually shoots well with a long jump, and factory loads are going to be under 2.260 and they shoot quite well in some rifles.

One of my 204's, a Savage model 16, shoots equally well with a coal of 2.332 or 2.256 with 39's. I have shot it all the way out to 2.392 with success, but didn't have much bullet in the case. Pesonally I would try both directions and it might not be a bad idea to try some at factory load length just to see. I was surprised how well mine would shoot with a coal of 2.256 and such a long jump.
 
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I always start load development with the bullet engraving the lands enough to get a square mark on the bullet. There's only one way to go from there....

As to the "just kissing the lands"....the problem with that is that some bullets or lot numbers of bullets, can and will vary too much in their measurements, making some bullets touching, others off, and some "just right". So unless you sort all your bullets by base to ogive, or bearing surface, or?, and change your seater accordingly, you may be pissing up a rope.

The perfect seater may be one that indexes off the ogive.....
 
Quote:I guess I really have 2 questions: 1 ~ How far off the lands have you been before ... with a good load? 2 ~ When I start playing with the seating depth, would you recommend getting closer or farther away from the lands?...Since I'm in FL and all my records are back in MO,,,?#1 is not answerable right now (having to work of of my lap top)...

On #2, I seat my bullets .20" into the case and then seat deeper if needed...I don't have a valid reason for doing so, other than my peace of mind and it seems to work well for me...

Since I know that I can't get to the lands with my BAs and the longer jump is going to be present anyway, I'll go with what is most accurate...Some guys that are into "Ultra Accuracy" with go with specialty barrel and chamber configurations, but as long as I can consistently get 1/4-1/2" groups at 100, I'm happy..And, I'm not a velocity freak either...I doubt if my targets realize the difference between 3850fps and 4100fps, but my barrels do...
 
Originally Posted By: Ricky Bobby

1 ~ How far off the lands have you been before ... with a good load?

2 ~ When I start playing with the seating depth, would you recommend getting closer or farther away from the lands?



1 - Each rifle is a rule book of it's own. There is no magic distance from the lands.


2 - Start with the bullet touching the lands and work up as usual. When you come to a good load, then back off a bit and see if that helps.
 
Thanks fellas!
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Otherwise I'd be second guessing myself.
 
Congrats on a fine rifle! I have one in 22-250 and it is hands down my favorite factory gun. I have had not one, but two high end Remington 204's that would not stabilize bullets 39 grains or more. Hopefully yours will. Because the long leade is part of the SAAMI spec for 204 Ruger I would start at COAL and adjust seating depth out to 1 bullet diameter in the case mouth if it won't shoot and as a last resort. Not exactly sure where this advice comes from? After having two duds for shooting 39 SBKs I simply built a custom gun with a 204 Match chamber and spec'd a 1/10 twist. BTW, if you decide to install an after-market trigger prepare to fire up the dremel. I have a Timney in mine.
 
Hawkeye~

I've got a Remmy SPS Varmint in .204 that loves being fed 40gr Bergers. Never tried anything else because it liked those so well. I would be trying the Bergers in the LVSF, but I have LOTS of the 39gr BlitzKings that I need to burn up. I am fairly new to the LVSF rifles & I too have acquired one chambered in 22-250. Awesome rifles! What load are you shooting in your LVSF? Have not reloaded for the 22-250 yet, trying to build up a decent brass supply by running some factory ammo 1st. Hoping to load some 50 grainers for it, when I do get around to it.
 
Shoots 52 Sierra MKs very well. I also discovered it really prefers the lighter bullets. My gun will very consistently put 3 shots into 1/2" groups at 100 yards with a max charge of Varget and the 40 NBT. This my "go to" gun for a walking varminter. I got mine back you could get one for $600. If Varget doesn't work I'd look hard at 4064.
 
I want to preface this by saying I am relatively new to load development. I have been working up a load with my LVSF in 17 Remington. I started up slow powder weights, finding something it liked and now am working on OAL. My LVSF likes is just barely off the lands. The more jump the worse the groups got for me. Just keep an eye on pressure signs, like the previous posters have been suggested. Mine ended up liking Hornady 20gr v-max over 24 gr of varget( 17 REMINGTON LOAD)
 
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Can someone tell me how you know how far the lands are to start with?

I am assuming they are further than max OAL in the loading books? And if so, I am assuming that's why all the talk on watching for pressure signs?

If further than max OAL then those of you loading to the lands do not use your mag's? Just one in the chamber at a time?

Thanks,
 
The cartridge fits in my magazine. I barely crimp a bullet in an UNLOAD/UN-PRIMED case. Gently close the bolt. It will give you a length with that particular bullet ( shape changes length). You can typically see the lands leaving marks on the bullet. I back off of that in .005 increments.
 
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