CARTER LAKE-SHARK
New member
Z-MAN , that is his tag line, not part of his answer to your question. mine is the iowa state flag motto. lurker is one of the most helpful guys here. all of his posts have it. lol
What's the best 243 AR 15
- Thread starter Z-MAN
- Start date
Originally Posted By: Z-MANThat's right I don't know much about AR's thats
Why I'm asking questions. So you don't half
To be a dick about it.
at least he is not a full one!
But a little search would answer all your question!
Mike summed it pretty dam good!
243- more weight cost less to shoot.
WSSM- less weight cost more to shoot.
There are a lot more calibers you could use while keeping the smaller platform and not give you the headaches of a WSSM.
Why I'm asking questions. So you don't half
To be a dick about it.
But a little search would answer all your question!
Mike summed it pretty dam good!
243- more weight cost less to shoot.
WSSM- less weight cost more to shoot.
There are a lot more calibers you could use while keeping the smaller platform and not give you the headaches of a WSSM.
204 AR
Well-known member
Originally Posted By: Dtech204 AR has pointed out that it is possible to make a relatively light .243 AR-10. That got me thinking about comparing apples to apples.
You can choose to use a short, or light or even a short and light barrel. You can also choose to use a carbon-fiber float-tube, but there are some items on both platforms that you are stuck with:
The upper receiver: The AR-10 bare upper receiver weighs 90% more than the WSSM upper receiver.
The bolt/carrier: The AR-10 bolt/carrier weighs 69% more than the WSSM bolt/carrier.
The barrel-extension; The AR-10 barrel-extension weighs almost 3 times more than the WSSM barrel-extension.
Bottom line: Built the same, the AR-10 is going to weigh considerably more than the WSSM.
The AR-10 is also more expensive to produce. I have now dropped the AR-10 from my line-up, but from my last price for an AR-10 upper, compared to my current pricing on WSSM upper, the AR-10 was 20% more expensive to produce.
All that said, there are some real up-sides to the AR-10 and the .243 Winchester. Factory and after-market ammunition is much more plentiful and with more variety by far in the .243 Winchester. With the WSSM, you are limited to what Winchester puts out, and a few after-market suppliers. One of the after-market suppliers of .243 WSSM loads offers 9 different loads using premium bullets and at an affordable price.
The .243 Winchester is also much easier to load for. The combination of the thinner brass and smaller diameter makes it much easier to re-size.
The huge selling point for me is that the AR-15 platform is already so wildly popular. Folks that got their first "black gun" just because the wanted one, can push out the two pins and in twenty seconds be big-game hunting with a WSSM upper. And in another twenty seconds be back to plinking with cheap surplus ammo.
As usual Mike nailed it, and there's the rub; the recievers, bolt carrier group, and barrel extension (wasn't aware of that one) are all heavier. Thanks for the numbers, I didn't know how much heavier, but I know that bcg is big enough to be used for a club, lol. And cost is another negative of the bigger platform. As an example I probably have a dozen ar15 lowers, but only 1 large frame lower for my 3 (so far) uppers, just because they're so expensive and harder to find.
I've never had the 243 wssm, but I know the 25 wssm is a performer. It's 200 to 300 fps faster with any bullet weight than the 243 Win. That's nothing short of amazing out of an AR15. But IMO it comes at the cost of expensive, thick brass that I couldn't figure out completely. I wish there was a Remington version that used the Rsaum brass shortened up. I have a 300 Rsaum, and that brass has none of the issues the Wssm brass had.
I think the bottom line is that there are a lot of good options for what you want, and none of them are really wrong. It's all what fits for each person's situation. I know that anytime I post in one of these threads, it's only to show what Can be done, Not what anyone else Should or Should not do.
You can choose to use a short, or light or even a short and light barrel. You can also choose to use a carbon-fiber float-tube, but there are some items on both platforms that you are stuck with:
The upper receiver: The AR-10 bare upper receiver weighs 90% more than the WSSM upper receiver.
The bolt/carrier: The AR-10 bolt/carrier weighs 69% more than the WSSM bolt/carrier.
The barrel-extension; The AR-10 barrel-extension weighs almost 3 times more than the WSSM barrel-extension.
Bottom line: Built the same, the AR-10 is going to weigh considerably more than the WSSM.
The AR-10 is also more expensive to produce. I have now dropped the AR-10 from my line-up, but from my last price for an AR-10 upper, compared to my current pricing on WSSM upper, the AR-10 was 20% more expensive to produce.
All that said, there are some real up-sides to the AR-10 and the .243 Winchester. Factory and after-market ammunition is much more plentiful and with more variety by far in the .243 Winchester. With the WSSM, you are limited to what Winchester puts out, and a few after-market suppliers. One of the after-market suppliers of .243 WSSM loads offers 9 different loads using premium bullets and at an affordable price.
The .243 Winchester is also much easier to load for. The combination of the thinner brass and smaller diameter makes it much easier to re-size.
The huge selling point for me is that the AR-15 platform is already so wildly popular. Folks that got their first "black gun" just because the wanted one, can push out the two pins and in twenty seconds be big-game hunting with a WSSM upper. And in another twenty seconds be back to plinking with cheap surplus ammo.
As usual Mike nailed it, and there's the rub; the recievers, bolt carrier group, and barrel extension (wasn't aware of that one) are all heavier. Thanks for the numbers, I didn't know how much heavier, but I know that bcg is big enough to be used for a club, lol. And cost is another negative of the bigger platform. As an example I probably have a dozen ar15 lowers, but only 1 large frame lower for my 3 (so far) uppers, just because they're so expensive and harder to find.
I've never had the 243 wssm, but I know the 25 wssm is a performer. It's 200 to 300 fps faster with any bullet weight than the 243 Win. That's nothing short of amazing out of an AR15. But IMO it comes at the cost of expensive, thick brass that I couldn't figure out completely. I wish there was a Remington version that used the Rsaum brass shortened up. I have a 300 Rsaum, and that brass has none of the issues the Wssm brass had.
I think the bottom line is that there are a lot of good options for what you want, and none of them are really wrong. It's all what fits for each person's situation. I know that anytime I post in one of these threads, it's only to show what Can be done, Not what anyone else Should or Should not do.
nightcaller
Active member
Pof makes a piston 243 that would be easier to keep clean.
As noted earlier the gap-10 in 243 would also be a quality route. While these are good options they are expensive options.
Personally I'm not a wssm fan but the guys that can get them to shoot love them.
A lot Depends on what you expect this rifle to do.
-run clean and reliably- pof
-Least expensive- used dpms or r-25
-best expected accuracy- gap-10
Have you thought about what this gun will be expected to do? Accuracy, price, bullet weight, rifle weight, shooting distances. when I bought my first custom ar I thought I knew what I wanted but when i ordered it the guy talked me out of a couple of things that I thought were important. E.g. twist rate and barrel length.
Btw it's ok to say "I don't know" to any of the questions above. Which automatically rules out the expensive options. It may not be a bad idea to buy a less expensive one and shoot it for a while to see if it comes up short. You may be able to upgrade anything you dislike by yourself relatively inexpensively. I wouldn't recommend a fully decked out gap to very many people. but a used r-25 is "good enough" for 95% of the people in your position.
Good luck
As noted earlier the gap-10 in 243 would also be a quality route. While these are good options they are expensive options.
Personally I'm not a wssm fan but the guys that can get them to shoot love them.
A lot Depends on what you expect this rifle to do.
-run clean and reliably- pof
-Least expensive- used dpms or r-25
-best expected accuracy- gap-10
Have you thought about what this gun will be expected to do? Accuracy, price, bullet weight, rifle weight, shooting distances. when I bought my first custom ar I thought I knew what I wanted but when i ordered it the guy talked me out of a couple of things that I thought were important. E.g. twist rate and barrel length.
Btw it's ok to say "I don't know" to any of the questions above. Which automatically rules out the expensive options. It may not be a bad idea to buy a less expensive one and shoot it for a while to see if it comes up short. You may be able to upgrade anything you dislike by yourself relatively inexpensively. I wouldn't recommend a fully decked out gap to very many people. but a used r-25 is "good enough" for 95% of the people in your position.
Good luck