muzzle loader accuracy problems with 50cal encore

Spike

New member
shooting maxi balls, power belts,and hornady conicals past 50yds with my scoped 50cal encore has not been good. I started with 777powder pellets and win shot shell primers, using 80grs to 100grs of powder. I stepped up to 777 granules and 777primers with slight improvement. I am thinking that the 1 in 28 twist is not fast enough to stabilize the conicals that I'm trying to shoot. I read about the ramshot powder but have not tried it yet. I looked up the 50cal pistols shooting similar weight bullets and they have 1 in 19 twist. any real experience with 50cal muzzle loaders shooting conicals would be appreciated. thanks spike
 
I shoot a .44 cal hornady XTP bullet in 200gr with green sabot and 3 triple 7 pellets with deadly accuracy. have shot the 240 grain XTP also. Will not hesitate to shoot 200yds or a lil more with it.
 
Are you shooting in much of a cross wind. One thing I've noticed is muzzle loaders don't like a cross wind. I've switched to Hornady Great Plains 385 gr. and they seem to work well with knock down power.
 
TC's are the worse to own when it comes to shooting full bore projectiles. The QLA at the end of the barrels are often drilled off center and causes nothing but problems with conical bullets.

You can order a Bergara barrel for it which does great with conicals and sabots.

Blackhorn209 is the best powder out there so if you can get some, do so. I doubt it will solve your problem so i'd start looking into a new barrel IMO.

My CVA Optima @100 yards with Thor conicals. The first 3 shots and then one adjustment shot.
DSCN4586_zpsfe7bfb56.jpg
 
Probably not want you want to hear but I had the same problems with a tc had to get a different barrel I read a lot on the web b4 I did and it seems to be a issue I now shoot my savage smokless only
 
I shoot 3 777 pellets and Thompson shockwave sabots. Can't remember what grain they are but I'll look em up and get back with ya. I want to say there 200 or 250gr.
 
Switch to BH 209 and don't look back. I've been shooting Barnes 44 Cal 200 gr bullets in mmp sabots with outstanding accuracy and very good on game performance. Took a nice whitetail doe with this combo last week.
 
I have two Encores both 50's one shoots the 300gr SST under 1.5" at 100 with BH209 the other a PRo hunter was harder to get to shoot good but finally got it to under 1.5" at 100 with BH209 and 295gr Barnes so far I've killed only 1 deer with the Barnes load but it droped in its tracks. I'm using 110gr BH209 in both I've taken 20 deer with the SST/Shockwaves not one went over 20 yrds.
BTW I have found that in my gun I had to use the tightest sabot I could find the easy load types opened up groups to 3" using BH I can load the 10th shot as easy as the first
 
I have a TC Omega Z5 in a .50 and like it a lot. I have tried T7 powder and pellets untill I discovered BH 209. T7 powder was ok but had to swab after every shot. The pellets (as far as I know) are 50gr per pellet so its either 50gr (1 pellet) 100gr or 150 gr....hard to work up a load that way. BP also absorbs moisture so on rainy days or humid days, moisture will seep in. With BH209 no swabbing is need between shots. I have fired off 13 in a row with no swabbing. You will need to clean the flash hole in the breech plug though after a while. AND it doesnt absorb moisture like BP does. I use 90gr of BH209 to push a 290gr Barnes TMZ and it shoots very good. Hope my off topic information helps. Just my experience...
DSCN2014.jpg
 
Last edited:
I would like to thank every one for their help with their muzzle loader experinces.
Rockymtnhunter, where can Iget thor conicals?
Rich44, for accuracy I will try sabots, but they are not legal for elk in Colorado.
powerfisher,I see you also use sabots.
I have two encore barrels in 50 cal, one with iron sights and the other with a 6-18 nikon scope. there should be a big difference in accuracy at 50yds, not so!
I am going to order the BH powder and TC sabots from Cabela's so that I will find out if my barrels will shoot.
I will contact match grade machine to see If they recomend a faster twist to stabilize conicals. thanks Spike.
 
www.thorbullets.com

email them your name and mailing address and request a free sizing sample. You can to start with the smallest .500" and work your way up until you find the correct diameter. Normally TC's take the .502" but you never know until you get the sizing sample.

You can easily pick up a CVA Optima " Non thumbhole" for a great price at www.rrarms.com that is a conical shooting machine.
 
Last edited:
In the past I've found the TC Maxi-hunters are more accurate than the Maxi-balls, but I don't shoot conicals currently. The TC barrels should shoot well with sabots or they really are the exception rather than the rule.
 
Have you seasoned the bore with TC's bore butter?If so I would suggest cleaning every trace of it out.That twist has shot best with 240-260gr sabot's in my Black Diamond and Omega.The Omega shoots con's well to.
 
RockyMountainHunter nailed it. TC's are notorious for being lousy performers with conical/full bore projectiles. Stuff some 250gr saboted ShockWaves down the bore and watch it come to life. I have 3 T/C ML's and they all shoot outstanding with ShockWaves and several other saboted bullets that I have tried.

I've had excellent results with 777 pellets, but did make the swithc to BH209 with even better results and much cleaner shooting/loading.
 
rockymthunter, thor bullets is sending me some sample bullets to try. I hope the conicals will work in my encores as they are intended for elk.
because of you I ordered a ss optima, it's breech plug is flat and the encore is concave similar to BH's breech plug.
I am waiting for the BH powder and saboted bullets to arrive and try in the encore to see if their capable of some kind of accuracy. spike
 
You will enjoy that optima Spike. Go to the CVA Website and order their blackhorn209 plug. Should be just a bit over $35 with shipping.

With the Optima, try 100gr blackhorn209, cci 209m primers.
 
I have posted on this topic in the past but here are my notes:

Purchased Encore 50 x 209 to replace an older Knight BK-92
New Encore accuracy was out right horrible, it did not matter what combination of bullet, sabot used. The powder was granular Triple 7 both FFg & FFFg. Various primers, load combinations made no improvement. Off the bench I could not hit the same spot twice even at 50 yards.
The scope was a Simmons 44m 3.5 x 10 - TC base with Millet rings. I blamed the scope and sent it in for repair (not holding zero). It was replaced by Simmons with no questions asked within two weeks. I reset the scope and repeated the above, the results were the same. I consulted TC they sent me a free box of 250 grain 45 cal sabot – shock-waves. Same drill – same results. I read about some issues with the QLA at the end of the barrel, I contact the writer that ran the story and he said it’s common that The QLA throws the accuracy way off. Taking matters into my own hands I sent this barrel to SSK Industries had them removed the QLA and recrown the barrel (knowing this would void any warranty) but didn’t care. Upon receipt of the barrel, I again repeated the above steps with the accuracy still horrible. I read about the T-7 crud ring, this primer or that primer ect.. Nothing was making a difference.
I saw an advertisement about BK-209 that was designed for muzzleloaders.. I gave it a try with MMP green sabots (44cal) a 240 grain XTP and CCI-209M primer. I started off with 90 grains, for the 1st time ever this barrel finally was able to hit the same spot. About a month later the screw that holds the forearm standoff to the barrel striped out. This barrel was done.. I found a new barrel on a Christmas sale and bought it.
After setting up the scope I went with BK-209 and various sabot loads. I contact Accurate Arms the makers of BK-209 and they recommend a magnum 209 primer for this powder, so I stuck with my CCI-209M. Finally I had what I wanted this rifle to shoot like it should. My pet load is 110 grains of BK-209 with a CCI-209M primer. MMP Black HPH 12 sabot & Barnes 275 grain .451 caliber spritzer. This runs 1922 feet per second and printed .928” group off the bench at 100 yards. I believe 95% of the problems were due to Triple 7 the other 5% a bad barrel. I will never use T-7 again; BK-209 is my powder of choice for modern muzzloading.
Shortly after all of my issues, I watched an episode of Realtree with David Blanton on the Outdoor Channel. Dave was up in Canada on a muzzleloader hunt for deer. He goes out to sight in his “Encore 50 x 209”. In this episode he shoots and shoots and shoots, he has to move up to 50 yards just to hit paper, and shoots even more. By this time the show is ½ over he is red faced due to the cold weather and likely very upset with all of this trouble. What was he using all of this time… Triple 7!!!
Good luck
B….
 
Sorry Buck 358 but I don't think you should condemn the T-7 powder. It may not work in ALL rifles, but it does and has worked in several of mine and friends. I gave my son my Omega this season and with 100 grains of T-7 FF and a 250 Shock wave, this rifle is deadly. Although I am using BH209 in my CVA, my son is still using T-7 in the Omega and it STILL shoots lites out accurate. The main reason for the BH 209 in my rifle is I wanted to try it per RockyMtHunter's advice and I had a partical can already. I do like the way it doesn't foul out the barrel and accuracy is very acceptable. Just because 777 didn't work for you and David doesn't mean we all have the same bad luck. I'd blame T/C way before Triple 7.
 
I've used T7 in a CVA,several Traditions,Austin&Halleck,TC Black Diamond and now an Encore in both loose powder and pellets. My brother currently uses pellets in his Omega and Black Diamond and my nephew also uses them in his Encore. Never any issues other than swabbing after each shot when sighting in and accuracy has been good. Too many people have used and are currently using T7 successfully to say it causes accuracy issues in general. Same with the Encore.
While I'm interested in BH the more I read about it's clean burning characteristics, I have no reservations about loading up with T7 and killing deer in a couple of weeks. Too close to the season and not enough time to mess with it, but I will be looking into BH209 in the coming year.
 
Back
Top