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#2292159 - 09/17/12 10:35 PM 223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference
6724 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 3066
Loc: colorado
i have always believed that 223 and 5.56 are the same thing. there are other forums and people that i know that will darn near come to blows with you if you tell them they are the same. some have sold cases of ammo that was labeled 5.56 because they own a gun labeled .223 remington.

how can i prove it to these people, what is out there (on the internet, since they believe everything they read on wikipedia) to shut them up once and for all?

one forum moderator/ operator posted that it was true (in a very pissed off manner) because he ran the same load in military brass and commercial and the military was 3 fps faster. he proclaimed that the pressures were higher in 5.56 brass than 223 because of the 3 fps difference! wow, i want his chronograph, not only is it super accurate, it also measures pressure!

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#2292167 - 09/17/12 10:42 PM Re: 223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference [Re: 6724]
Bear Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 2314
Loc: Colorado USA
The 5.56 is loaded to higher chamber pressure than the 223. Usually the 5.56 has a longer throat and a looser chamber to assure proper function on full auto and dirty conditions.Tell them to check the Hornady 7th edition pages 150 through 158 they have the specs. and loads for both,the only diff is slug selection and load pressure.


Edited by Bear (09/17/12 10:48 PM)
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#2292168 - 09/17/12 10:42 PM Re: 223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference [Re: 6724]
pahntr760 Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 12125
Loc: Here and there
I don't think it will ever be laid to rest. Especially when prominent ammunition and firearm companies also play along.

Like I've said before.

Take a piece of 5.56 brass. Load a 50 gr bullet, standard primer, 23 grain charge of powder...

Take a piece of 223 brass, replicate the load.


Why would there be any differance? There isn't, because they're the same dang thing!!
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“It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.”
- Ronald Reagan

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#2292169 - 09/17/12 10:45 PM Re: 223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference [Re: Bear]
pahntr760 Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 12125
Loc: Here and there



5.56 is not loaded to higher pressures. Just measured differently. One is SAAMI and one NATO. that's all, folks...

Originally Posted By: Bear
The 5.56 is loaded to higher chamber pressure than the 223. Usually the 5.56 has a longer throat and a looser chamber to assure proper function on full auto and dirty conditions.



SEE...more Internet nonsense. Except the military chambers are set-up a bit sloppy to accommodate field conditions. That part is true...
_________________________
“It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.”
- Ronald Reagan

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#2292181 - 09/17/12 11:00 PM Re: 223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference [Re: 6724]
Webopper Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 914
Loc: Buckeye, AZ
This is probably one of the best articles I have seen on the subject. Draw your own conclusions...

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/

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#2292194 - 09/17/12 11:19 PM Re: 223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference [Re: Webopper]
pahntr760 Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 12125
Loc: Here and there
Originally Posted By: Luckygunner.com
Summary: Velocities and pressures for 5.56 ammunition in a .223 barrel were not significantly higher than the same ammunition in a 5.56 barrel; in fact, they were in between the two 5.56 barrels. This doesn’t mean that your barrel will have the same results, and you should always be aware of pressure signs when holding metal objects containing 50-60,000psi of pressure only a few inches away from your face.


Here's the deal. Each and every chamber is different. It will act differently then an otherwise identical rifle right beside it. I've seen prim ers popped by a completely factory rifle with a .223 rem stamp on the barrel, shooting regular white box ammo. It happens. And as the article pointed out, 5.56 ammo CAN be loaded higher, but this is not all inclusive. It actually show where some 5.56 ammo is loaded lighter. Same can be said for .223 rem ammo. The Hornady superformance stuff has a bit more pop to it, versus standard, run of the mill 223 stuff.

Heck, a lot of us reload, and likely push to and past "recommended SAAMI specs" it happens. There are tons more variables then just headstamps.

IE; A normally ok load, sitting in the sun, or a hot chamber, suddenly pops primers or blows out extractors, etc. This happens all the time in PDog fields of one isn't careful. So all this 5.56 vs 223 stuff is silly, to me. I one once naive about it, but then I tried it.

American Eagle 5.56 ammo in a .223 Howa rifle, guess what!? They all fired, and shot well to boot. So there is no for sure yes or no on the issue. Just check out our rifle, and keep an eye on pressure signs. Just as you would for hand loading...
_________________________
“It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.”
- Ronald Reagan

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#2292196 - 09/17/12 11:20 PM Re: 223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference [Re: Bear]
nastynatesfish Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 03/29/11
Posts: 4738
Loc: Arizona
Originally Posted By: Bear
The 5.56 is loaded to higher chamber pressure than the 223. Usually the 5.56 has a longer throat and a looser chamber to assure proper function on full auto and dirty conditions.Tell them to check the Hornady 7th edition pages 150 through 158 they have the specs. and loads for both,the only diff is slug selection and load pressure.


What you just posted is all chamber difference not round. I've shot hundreds of 556 through 223 rifles.
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#2292199 - 09/17/12 11:21 PM Re: 223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference [Re: 6724]
ninehorses Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 2203
Loc: Mason,Tx,U.S.A.
The 5.56 is NOT loaded to higher pressure, the test equipment that SAAMI and the Military use are different, so they get different pressures. It's like checking the air pressure in a tire with two different gauges, one says 50 psi, one says 60 psi. The pressure in the tire is the same, test equiptment is different.

If you read Wiki on the 5.56,

NATO EPVAT test barrels made for 5.56 mm NATO measure chamber pressure at the case mouth, as opposed to the location used by the United States civil standards organization SAAMI. The piezoelectric sensors or transducers NATO and SAAMI use to conduct the actual pressure measurements also differ. This difference in measurement method accounts for upwards of 20,000 psi (140 MPa) difference in pressure measurements. This means the NATO EPVAT maximum service pressure of 430 MPa (62,000 psi) for 5.56 mm NATO, is reduced by SAAMI to 55,000 psi (380 MPa) for .223 Remington.[27] In contrast to SAAMI, the other main civil standards organization C.I.P. defines the maximum service and proof test pressures of the .223 Remington cartridge equal to the 5.56 mm NATO.

The brass in 5.56 is the same as well, same weight, same capacity.


Edited by ninehorses (09/17/12 11:26 PM)
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#2292202 - 09/17/12 11:29 PM Re: 223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference [Re: nastynatesfish]
Rustydust Offline
PM senior

Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 6374
Loc: Southwest Idaho
Thousands of shooters have shot thousands of rounds of 5.56 through their .223 guns and vice versa with never a problem. You know why? Because there isn't any!

This pops up a few times a year. It's all hogwash, but it will continue to keep popping up for as long as there are shooters of .223 and 5.56 ammo.
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He said, "Well, I don't know and I don't care.'"


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#2292203 - 09/17/12 11:30 PM Re: 223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference [Re: pahntr760]
Webopper Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 914
Loc: Buckeye, AZ
Originally Posted By: pahntr760
Each and every chamber is different.


Originally Posted By: pahntr760
American Eagle 5.56 ammo in a .223 Howa rifle, guess what!? They all fired, and shot well to boot. So there is no for sure yes or no on the issue. Just check out our rifle, and keep an eye on pressure signs. Just as you would for hand loading...


Personally, I believe that those 2 statements right there are all you need to know on the subject.

Much the same as it is if you are working up a load in a .243 or any other caliber. There is a very real possibility that your .243 chamber and my .243 chamber will be different. This would be why a max load in your rifle might be too much for mine and necessitates my working up the load slowly.

If there are pressure signs, stop shooting.

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#2292207 - 09/17/12 11:38 PM Re: 223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference [Re: 6724]
pahntr760 Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 12125
Loc: Here and there
Oh...and GASP! I use 7.62 brass, resized, in my .243 Winchester chamber...Oh yeah, living on the edge....
_________________________
“It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.”
- Ronald Reagan

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#2292240 - 09/18/12 12:42 AM Re: 223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference [Re: pahntr760]
Jack Roberts Offline
Former Admin/moderator - deceased

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 15854
Loc: Elko, NV formerly MD
A good clue is that a lot of factory ammo is labeled 223/5.56.

Jack
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"When the going gets tough, the tough get going."
"Yeah, to where the going's easier." Ben Bova

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#2292371 - 09/18/12 10:35 AM Re: 223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference [Re: Jack Roberts]
Ridgeline17 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 04/11/12
Posts: 1534
Loc: Somerset,Ky
****, It come up again. scared
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#2292387 - 09/18/12 10:59 AM Re: 223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference [Re: Ridgeline17]
pahntr760 Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 05/06/09
Posts: 12125
Loc: Here and there
Originally Posted By: Ridgeline17
****, It come up again. scared


We're running about once every two weeks! C'mon people!
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“It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.”
- Ronald Reagan

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#2292392 - 09/18/12 11:02 AM Re: 223 vs 5.56 proof of no difference [Re: Bear]
CatShooter Offline
PM senior

Registered: 01/24/02
Posts: 9094
Loc: The Socialist Republic of CT.
Originally Posted By: Bear


"The 5.56 is loaded to higher chamber pressure than the 223."



That is not true.

They are the same cases, so they will support the same pressures.

The very last thing in the world the military needs, is US solders dying in combat because their guns are failing because of case failures in combat.

These are all silly wive's tales.

Some people will believe (and repeat) anything.


.
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Spring has sprung, da' creek has riz, I wonder where dem kitties is.

Here kitty, kitty, kitty...

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