whydo you hunt predators?

Originally Posted By: fowlmouthI,for one,don't think you plan on doing any hunting. I think you're here just to cause hate and discontent. ...
My other thought is that you're a regular board member poking sticks by taking all this "research"!!!!
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I actually think he's a student, probably doing a school project (maybe for a journalism class or maybe for a science class) and this entire topic will be printed out and placed on foam-core board for all to read. (Thus the reason for his metered, and super polite responses even to obvious insults, and especially his overall summary of what he feels he's learned. To me it seems to follow a prescribed rubric, typical of teacher driven research projects.) I think he MAY be considering hunting, but all in all I feel confident his quest for "research" indicates another undisclosed, although not necessarily sinister motive.

It reminds me of a list of questions a member posted in the Member Clubhouse forum several weeks ago for a school project his sister was doing. (The list approach was not offensive in the least, and the full disclosure of the purpose seemed to help generate really good, serious answers.)

 
Originally Posted By: Miz KizOriginally Posted By: fowlmouthI,for one,don't think you plan on doing any hunting. I think you're here just to cause hate and discontent. ...
My other thought is that you're a regular board member poking sticks by taking all this "research"!!!!
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I actually think he's a student, probably doing a school project (maybe for a journalism class or maybe for a science class) and this entire topic will be printed out and placed on foam-core board for all to read. (Thus the reason for his metered, and super polite responses even to obvious insults, and especially his overall summary of what he feels he's learned. To me it seems to follow a prescribed rubric, typical of teacher driven research projects.) I think he MAY be considering hunting, but all in all I feel confident his quest for "research" indicates another undisclosed, although not necessarily sinister motive.

It reminds me of a list of questions a member posted in the Member Clubhouse forum several weeks ago for a school project his sister was doing. (The list approach was not offensive in the least, and the full disclosure of the purpose seemed to help generate really good, serious answers.)



+1 I didnt respond because I had no scientific replies. I hunt coyotes for personal reasons. The OP should be upfront and honest as to why the inquiry.
 
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PERSON123: If you want to 'research' coyotes, go to your internet access and type in 'coyote attacks'. It will take you a LOONNNGGG time to sort through all those videos of news reports and actual attacks(some bogus, most real), but, it will be well worth your time, believe me. Just wondering; are your ecologist buddies ready to stand tall and defend their position after watching all those videos? Just curious.................. Any time a child or adult is threatened or attacked you have, to me, a justified reason to take terminal action. Why not get out in front of it and limit the social impact by being pro-active in preventing many of these attacks? Just a thought.
 
The coyote's in my area are becoming over populated. In a small town near me, they are comming into town for the pets. But people are afraid they will go after the children.
 
Originally Posted By: Miz Kiz

With all due respect, THIS statement is a 'hunch', a mere assumption or personal impression on YOUR PART!
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(However, if you can point to any empirical data or scientific studies to support the statement I would love to read them.)



the hunch was the level of which i thought people who just hunt without being informed. i was wrong, but there are definitely people who base their reasons for hunting based on personal observation without doing any research.

i was unclear [you could say dishonest by i didnt mean to be] about my intent of making this thread. i was also biased, but i kept an open mind too. i was trying to get more people to educate themselves, but now i realize i was the one who needed to be educated. so sorry if that pissed anyone off.
 
Originally Posted By: CrazyHorse66Just curious 123, but what's your a/s/l?

Is this something you're doing on a personal level?
Or is it an assignment?

What caught your eye about predator hunting?

im over 18 but still young and dumb. i made this thread out of personal interest. i started to get into nature a while ago and noticed coyote tracks. ive also seen them in the wild. i think they are very interesting animals, and when i researched them i wondered why anyone would hunt them because i thought they had positive impacts on the ecosystem and were just cool animals. i was obviously wrong, and now i can see why they are hunted. i still dont know if i would hunt them myself despite their negative ecological impact because i respect them and think they are cool.
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edit: i forgot to say that they do not appear to be overpopulated in my area. if they started to become habituated to humans i would seriously consider hunting them
 
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Originally Posted By: person123 i think they are very interesting animals, and when i researched them i wondered why anyone would hunt them because i thought they had positive impacts on the ecosystem and were just cool animals. i was obviously wrong, and now i can see why they are hunted. i still dont know if i would hunt them myself despite their negative ecological impact because i respect them and think they are cool.
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There is a multitude of reasons to hunt coyotes and I'm not ashamed to say that one of the reasons is the challenge of it. He11, people climb Everest just because "It's there to be climbed", and that is reason enough and accepted.

Here's the thing that I think you still haven't got. WE ALL think coyotes are cool animals too. They are the ultimate survivors and among some of the most efficient predators on this continant. That makes them cool regardless of the side of the fence you are on.

I'm going to drop the sarcasm for just a second and tell you that if for what ever reason all negative predation by coyotes magically stopped tomorrow, I would stop hunting them, admittedly begrudgingly as I do enjoy it. But, I have no interest in eradicating a species just because it's fun. But again, I'm not ashamed to say that I would start hunting deer again.


Chupa
 
Well person123, this all could have gone a lot easier if you had just said that in the first place. To start a conversation in the manner you did, within a group of people that have had to listen to anti hunters and anti gunners their whole life, is practically a custom designed way to raise some serious dander.

That, however, is NOT a very good excuse for the people here to act the way they have, with extreme prejudice and attacks on the beliefs they ASSUMED (yes, assumed, I believe at several points you even reiterated that you were NOT against hunting)you had. While some of the members here did do their best to give you honest informational answers, most responded very childishly, and I'm sorry you had to deal with that. Honestly, I don't know you, maybe you are what you say, maybe you aren't, but either way there's no reason to assault you like that. I think we all need to remember to use some common sense and think things through before we act, if only to avoid inadvertently painting a negative picture of ourselves to others.

As for answers, I hunt them because I appreciate them. I recognize they are the better hunters, faster, better senses, they are sly, often very wary, and in general masters of their respective niche in nature. I get the greatest thrill to go out onto their turf, and engage them mano a pawo, tovpit myself against them. As of yet its Me: 0 Them: roughly 50, but that just makes me more determined to hone my skills. As Chupa said, should their population suddenly take a dive I will quit my unsuccessful endeavors.

And from a fellow NYer (assuming that's true) our coyote populations are on a steady rise. In Allegany county, local's chickens and ducks are disappearing fairly regularly and most places you can stop on any given road and hear them singing in the night. There have been several studies by biologists recently focusing on coyote populations in NY and their steady rise. For me though, the pelts would (because I haven't bagged one yet) be nice to sell, and a few less missing chickens would be nice, but down deep, I'm in it for the challenge.
 
Originally Posted By: person123
the hunch was the level of which i thought people who just hunt without being informed. i was wrong, but there are definitely people who base their reasons for hunting based on personal observation without doing any research.

My first post pointed out that scientific studies are inconclusive as to the long term consequences of coyote population management. Yet, there is always a source of highest and best evidence for any subject. On this particular one, local observations (personal and from others who are informed) are in fact more valid in most areas than a 10, 5 or even 2 year old scientific study done 3 states away. (Sort of like trying to determine the temperature in Georgia by reading the weather forecast for NY.) It makes more sense for me to step outside my own front door to check it for myself. Consequently, keen personal observation is indeed the highest and best research currently available.

Originally Posted By: person123 i was unclear [you could say dishonest by i didnt mean to be] about my intent of making this thread. i was also biased, but i kept an open mind too. i was trying to get more people to educate themselves, but now i realize i was the one who needed to be educated. so sorry if that pissed anyone off.

I truly appreciate your sincere, introspective comments, as well as your apology.

Be safe, and best wishes whether or not you decide that hunting coyotes is for you.
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Miz Kiz, I think the weather forecast in NY is probably better at forecasting your weather than it is ours :-D

123, I sincerely hope your not not the only one that learned a little something from this. I actually quite like threads like this when they stay on track, it can give you a much better feel for the members here, and the things that drive us. Despite any insults given or taken, from what I've seen and from the help I've gotten, durn near everyone on here is friendly, funny and more than willing to help you in whatever way they can.

Take a good chunk of time, utilize the google custom search, and dig around the forums. I think you will find a lot of answers to your questions, answers to things you didn't think of asking, and probably a whole set of new questions to ask besides.
 
Originally Posted By: person123...ive also seen them in the wild. i think they are very interesting animals, and when i researched them i wondered why anyone would hunt them because i thought they had positive impacts on the ecosystem and were just cool animals. i was obviously wrong, and now i can see why they are hunted. i still dont know if i would hunt them myself despite their negative ecological impact because i respect them and think they are cool.

Rhetorical question for you:

If most of us hunters didn't share the same respect and "think coyotes were cool", would you think we would take so much time to study their behaviors? Coyotes are fascinating animals, and I guarantee that 100% of the hunters on this board (that aren't newbies that just started out) have had encounters where they got to WATCH coyotes in awe, but either didn't have a weapon, was out of season, out of range, etc etc etc.

The may not be apex predators (although in many areas they are), but they're definitely one of the most elite predators on the planet. Highly efficient, adaptable, elusive, and intelligent, absolutely amazing predators, and a real joy to study.

Then you add on top of that, their populations (because they're so effective and resilient) can boom overnight and they can easily adapt to encroach on HUMAN populations, they do need to be controlled. As a general rule of thumb, Coyotes are ninjas. If you regularly SEE coyotes without actively TRYING to see coyotes, there are likely too many coyotes in that area.

Then on top of THAT, it's a thrilling challenge to be able to trick such an elusive predators senses to bring them in close enough to hunt it. Coyotes will get the best of a hunter on a regular basis. There's a large amount of study, patience, practice, skill, and a he11 of a lot of luck that goes into out-hunting the hunter.

What "city folk" or "non-hunters" fail to understand that when a coyote comes into their culdesac and kills and eats a few neighbor dogs, it's NOT because of just "one problem coyote". It's about a population of coyotes that has exceeded it's territories carrying capacity, so these dogs are left to wander into populated areas, where they have a ready supply of food to survive, and good shelter. Animal control will come, capture the "problem animal", then release it into the country, where it just either 1) gets replaced by another coyote in town, or 2) finds its way back near people, because that is it's natural pattern (now). However, if these coyote populations are controlled, they WON'T go against their natural fear of humans and WON'T encroach on populated areas.

No, not every coyote needs to be killed, but hunters can hardly keep up with their population growth, so it's a win win. The state gets money from hunters that want to control them (money that FUNDS all of these research projects and ecological surveys that have been thrown around), and their populations are held to sustainable levels by being hunted.
 
Person123,
your apology is appreciated and keeps me on my toes as well. Living in the inner-city of Chicago I rub elbow with lots of people that have different world views than me and I am continually challenged to treat folks with the same respect I want even when their opinions are questionable. I live a few blocks from an inclosed cemetery smack in the middle of town where two coyotes live. I have seen them riding the L train. When I stopped by the cemetery office to inquire if I could take pics of them the woman there told me I couldn't because they were "a federally protected animal". She actually believed that coyotes fell under this protection all over the state. At that point I could have "educated" her but that wouldn't have gotten me anywhere. I mentioned to her that I draw cartoons for a predator magazine and that I was a hunter. I had the feeling I was the first hunter she may have met. I am not only a hunter but an ambassador of the life style. As misinformed as she was I wanted to treat her with the same respect I want. The conversation ended with me still not being able to take pics but we exchange emails and I sent her my toons at which she was polite enough to say she got a laugh out of them. PM site has a deep, rich group of very knowledgeable hunters and I am blessed to have such a resource.
 
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Person123, your initial post is very much in the form of a concern troll. If that is not the case then I think you should still be able to understand some of the initial response to your post. You have gotten off on the wrong foot with a lot of people because you have made some false assumptions. Many here have a deep regard for coyotes and have definitely done their homework. Your attempt to educate us is all well and good but first you need a clearer understanding of the people you propose to educate. Some on this board are wildlife professionals; they have done a lot to educate the rest of us. Many of us have years of experience in the field and have read a wide variety of works on coyote ecology. So if you want to educate us fine but let it be a two edged sword. I think you could learn volumes from the people who post here. As far as why we hunt coyotes you’re likely to get a wide range of answers. Some have answered you by saying they hunt coyotes because it is fun. That doesn’t necessarily mean that they are in to the killing. It’s been my observation that those who get into this sport for the killing soon lose interest. The time, effort and expense of calling is not worth it to someone who is simply out to kill something. Most stands don’t result in a kill, most days don’t result in a kill and in some areas weeks of calling don’t result in a kill. Yet many of us are out there time and time again accepting the challenge.
 
Right behind hogs, coyote are my second favorite animal. And you know what? I shoot both! There is no pleasure in having to take a life (ok, some times there is) but the traditions and values of hunters must continue. Native Americans killed coyote for their fur and for protection. We must continue hunting or the ancient ways of life will be forever forgotton. Plus, I get bored in the off season.
 
Originally Posted By: Dirt NapBecause it's fun
Shoot yea man!!! if we dont kill em whats gonna? I dont reckon they got anything chasin em. It keeps the population in check. And its a blast soo thats a plus.
 
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123,

We hunt because we are predators too.

It is what we do as men. Unfortunately for you, everything around you has tried to shame you into denying who you really are. The system wants you castrated and domesticated. It has blinded you to the truth. That truth is eating away at you like a splinter in your mind.

You are a predator. You just have break free of the matrix to discover it. Take the red pill. We can show only show you the door. You have to walk through it.
 
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Originally Posted By: person123im over 18 but still young and dumb. i made this thread out of personal interest. i started to get into nature a while ago and noticed coyote tracks. ive also seen them in the wild. i think they are very interesting animals, and when i researched them i wondered why anyone would hunt them because i thought they had positive impacts on the ecosystem and were just cool animals. i was obviously wrong, and now i can see why they are hunted. i still dont know if i would hunt them myself despite their negative ecological impact because i respect them and think they are cool.
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edit: i forgot to say that they do not appear to be overpopulated in my area. if they started to become habituated to humans i would seriously consider hunting them
To do something really positive for the environment, be a hunter and be part of the ecosystem (or buy a hunting license even if you don't hunt). Humans are part of the ecosystem just like any other animal. When human influence is removed from the ecosystem, its like decreasing species diversity and removing a predator that other animals have adapted to and evolved with. Wildlife populations are managed so that reproduction will always provide a renewable resource and that's why hunting is the green thing to do. Wildlife populations decline due to lost habitat, not from hunting. The revenue generated from hunting provides the programs to improve wildlife habitat, manage wildlife populations, and benefits the economy.
 
I hunt coyotes because it's been scientifically proven that it's against the law to shoot liberals, ecologists, and animal rights activists. Most of whom pretend to be informed by studies conducted by other liberals, ecologists, and animal rights activists, and go on crusades to save the world, when they know nothing about it.

Until you have lived in the outdoors, worked in it day to day, understand it beyond the realms of what you are going to read in your scientific data that you're studying, you don't have a damm clue what's going on out here. I've read scientific report, upon scientific report, and seen what was going on in the world where these reports supposedly took place. And, I can tell you point blank, that either the ecologists and biologists that fabricated the reports didn't have a clue what they were looking at, or much of their scientific study was done from the comfort of the desk in their office, to serve a political agenda.

If you want to study the ecological effects of coyotes on a given eco-system; get up from your desk, turn your computer off, and get out in the real world with the rest of us here. Because, it's a whole lot different out here than what you will read on the ecologist's web!
 
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