What I'm looking for

dzrtram

New member
I thought it would be a good idea to post exactly what "doggin coyotes" and I are referring to in my .30 carbine post. Maybe this will give some of you some ideas for me.
A friend has a nearby 480 ranch in the So. Cal mountains near the Mexican border. It can be a very dangerous place for a number of reasons.
1)There are many feral dogs, wild cats, coyotes by the hundreds, fox, etc.
2) We have the occasional wolf come across from the higher mountains in northern Baja. Bears too, it has been rumored, but rarely, and that's not part of my need.
3) Unfortunately, there are some other domiciles within long range rifle distance.
4) To complicate all this, we also have night prowlers in the form of illegal traffic. Not that I would shoot them under normal circumstances. Unfortunately, again, we do have bandidos on those trails, and unscrupulous trafficers we call coyotes (the human kind, and they will kill you if they feel the need). The movies and TV documentaries about the border are NOT B.S. I would never shoot any of these persons unless they were a threat, and they would never be a threat at long distances. The good and honest "immigrants" are only looking for work to provide for their families.

Sooo, my problem is, at short ranges, to kill predators of all kinds without hitting the neighbors, or anything else I don't want to hit. Because these are all "threats" within short ranges only, I am looking for a caliber that drops off like a rock and fizzles out in energy after 150-200 yards. In other words, this gun is not a toy. It is to be a specific-use, as-needed "tool". The effective short range of the .30, with it's loss of energy is ideal. My only other choice, it seems is the .22 Hornet, .25-20 (which is too weak), and some other calibers like those. I am NOT at all interested in wildcat calibers, rare, or hard-to-get calibers, or those that I have to reload because I can't easily get the ammo. I have a lot better things to do than spend a great deal of time reloading.
I have thousands of rounds of .30 brass, but not much .38, which I wouldn't use anyway, and even less .357 (a caliber I do not like. I prefer the .44), so my reloading would be cheaper.
Boy, that was a mouthful. I always enjoy these discussions because I learn so much /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Thank you!!!
 
Ok, I'll put on my flame-retardant suit and stick my neck out. I would think the .30 carbine would work fine, especially with the .32 lead hp bullets. Coyotes are quick, but I doubt they'll duck your .30 cal. Another option might be the Hi-Point 9mm carbine. These retail for $199 and will be "coyote accurate" at up to 150-200 yards. Yet another unusual option is the new Beretta carbine in .40 S&W, 9mm, or 45ACP. I would avoid FMJ bullets because some tend to skip and hop for quite a distance.

If the range is often 50 yards or less, I'd opt for a 12 gauge 3" with #00 or #4 buck.

In your situation, I'd also think about a 9mm CCW.

There, now you've got some options. And now I'll cinch up my flame suit, lol.
 
If I were roaming in that neck of the woods, I would want something with a lot more pop than a .30 carbine. Carbines are notorious for lack of accuracy and killing power. I don't know at what ranges you will need to be shootin but the only thing I can see that would fill this tall order of performance limitations would be a 30-30 lever gun or (my preference)AK-47 in 7.62x39 high capacity. I would not rule out 12ga with 00 or #4 Buck. Interested in seeing how this comes out.
 
Hey Dzrtram- the last two posts being good options, pose a problem in California. I do think a 7.62x39 or 30-30 with a 45 back up would fit the bill. You can find bolt action's in 7.62x39 but a 30-30 is readily avalible. Just remember to bring a shovel with you.
 
Thanks guys, you're awesome /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
I appreciate all the suggestions. There are some good ideas, but I do have to watch the Commiefornia Gestapo for legal issues. I neglected to add that I really do need this to be a semiauto for fast follow-up shots. The dogs usually run in packs. With the .32 hollow point bullets the .30 energy is probably enough for a manstopper, but I was wondering about accuracy and trajectory. I have to buy a stock for my .30, load up some more .32s, and go do some testing.
BTW, our only problem with the human element is at night. They won't bother us unless they think we are bothering them, normally :rolleyes:
Whenever, I go out I carry a sidearm either in .45acp, or .45 Super, or a revolver.
Thans again /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
Here's a thought. What about One of those Ruger lever action 44 mag's. This little hitter looks alot like the old semi auto 44mag ruger made many years ago (I think it was the deer slayer or something like that). I know it's not a semi-auto but the lever design of this rifle is quick and handi (ya know, I don't know if they even make this rifle anymore, haven't heard anything in quite some time about it). Even if they don't make'em any more either the lever action or the older Semi-auto (both are 10/22 look alikes, especially the Semi-auto) would be just perfect for what you are looking for.
 
Geez, Tom, they don't flame people on here for voicing their opinion, do they? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Seems like a great site, and some great guys. I bet you don't have too much trouble with that.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Originally posted by AR Tom:
[qb]Ok, I'll put on my flame-retardant suit and stick my neck out. I would think the .30 carbine would work fine, especially with the .32 lead hp bullets. Coyotes are quick, but I doubt they'll duck your .30 cal. Another option might be the Hi-Point 9mm carbine. These retail for $199 and will be "coyote accurate" at up to 150-200 yards. Yet another unusual option is the new Beretta carbine in .40 S&W, 9mm, or 45ACP. I would avoid FMJ bullets because some tend to skip and hop for quite a distance.

If the range is often 50 yards or less, I'd opt for a 12 gauge 3" with #00 or #4 buck.

In your situation, I'd also think about a 9mm CCW.

There, now you've got some options. And now I'll cinch up my flame suit, lol.[/qb]
 
That is an excellent thought. I wonder about the 200yd energy and the trajectory. Do you have any info on that, out of a rifle?
Thanks a bunch /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Originally posted by Michael J. McCasland:
[qb]Here's a thought. What about One of those Ruger lever action 44 mag's. This little hitter looks alot like the old semi auto 44mag ruger made many years ago (I think it was the deer slayer or something like that). I know it's not a semi-auto but the lever design of this rifle is quick and handi (ya know, I don't know if they even make this rifle anymore, haven't heard anything in quite some time about it). Even if they don't make'em any more either the lever action or the older Semi-auto (both are 10/22 look alikes, especially the Semi-auto) would be just perfect for what you are looking for.[/qb]
 
Haahaa! No, this site is a bunch of good guys. A couple of the other sites would have me drawn and quartered for such suggestions. I like this one better because a guy can think "outside the box" and not be ostracized.

We don't have such night problems here, except maybe if we stumble on an onery deer, or worse (a badger). For that reason, we also carry handguns. The deer will run off with a warning shot, but the dang badgers just seem to want to run up a guys leg and chomp something precious. They're just born PO'd.

Good luck in your quest - and stay safe.
 
Here is a thought, Take a look at the mini 30. It should be accurite enough. They have been pretty good about staying under the radar too.

RUGER_MINI_762.gif


The shoot the 7.62x39 and are semi-auto. I know a few guys that have the mini 14 (223). They use them as ranch rifles for what ever might need killen.
 
dzrtram - Honestly I don't have any loading data for this rifle. When I was young my grand father used one of the Semi Auto 44 mag's for deer hunting. He killed a few deer with it and I killed a woodchuck with it. Darned snappy little rifle and would do real well on a coyote for a short distance out to say 150 yards.

Now as far as the 7.62x39. This is not what I'd call a short range round, at least not in the realm of what you are after. We've used them on silhouettes and they are fairly effective on 300 meter javelina. Their effectiveness falls off at turkey range (389 meters). But I don't beleive that a 300+ meter gun can effectively be argued to be a short range gun. To burn off energy in the way you want I believe that you want a short fat slow mover like a true handgun round.
 
Have you thought about a slug gun? I just put a scope on my 870. I haven't hunted with it wet. I want to try it out with a slug on a coyote and see what I get. I have never had a problem with follow up shot using a pump.
 
Yeah, tell me about it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
There are some ignorant people on some of the other gun sites, not just varmint sites.
Stay where you are!! The border is getting downright nasty.
Thanks for making me feel welcome. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Originally posted by AR Tom:
[qb]Haahaa! No, this site is a bunch of good guys. A couple of the other sites would have me drawn and quartered for such suggestions. I like this one better because a guy can think "outside the box" and not be ostracized.

We don't have such night problems here, except maybe if we stumble on an onery deer, or worse (a badger). For that reason, we also carry handguns. The deer will run off with a warning shot, but the dang badgers just seem to want to run up a guys leg and chomp something precious. They're just born PO'd.

Good luck in your quest - and stay safe.[/qb]
 
Michael, did you mean the lever or the Deerfield semi auto? The Deerfield is an excellent idea. For me, my bad eyes, and notorious inability to hit much /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I need the semi auto. Actually, I do have bad eyes, but I'm not going to spray and pray. I sometimes have to deal with small packs of feral dogs/coyote/whatever mixes. Need to shoot fast. In the time it takes to crank a lever or turn a bolt they could be gone. You have me really thinking, buddy.
Thanks
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Originally posted by dzrtram:
[qb]That is an excellent thought. I wonder about the 200yd energy and the trajectory. Do you have any info on that, out of a rifle?
Thanks a bunch /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Originally posted by Michael J. McCasland:
[qb]Here's a thought. What about One of those Ruger lever action 44 mag's. This little hitter looks alot like the old semi auto 44mag ruger made many years ago (I think it was the deer slayer or something like that). I know it's not a semi-auto but the lever design of this rifle is quick and handi (ya know, I don't know if they even make this rifle anymore, haven't heard anything in quite some time about it). Even if they don't make'em any more either the lever action or the older Semi-auto (both are 10/22 look alikes, especially the Semi-auto) would be just perfect for what you are looking for.[/qb]
[/qb]
 
Another great thought. I'd forgotten about that one. With a good 4x or 6x fixed-power scope I should be able to keep good track of them running. Now I'm beginning to wonder if the scope should be mounted "Scout" style. I have my .30 fixed up with a Burris 2 or 2.5x mounted on a "B-Square". I think I can do the same thing with Minis. Whattayathink? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Originally posted by 187coyote:
[qb]Here is a thought, Take a look at the mini 30. It should be accurite enough. They have been pretty good about staying under the radar too.

RUGER_MINI_762.gif


The shoot the 7.62x39 and are semi-auto. I know a few guys that have the mini 14 (223). They use them as ranch rifles for what ever might need killen.[/qb]
 
You know, a pump or auto that can be a slug gun isn't too bad an idea. Talk about a short-range gun!!
I'm ready to talk turkey, too; turkey hunting, that is.
My son just bought a place in Montana. They have turkey shoots up there using rifles. I know nothing about this, but if anyone knows about this kind of turkey shoot, I'd like to learn more. They just call and shoot them in the head, just like Sgt. York. Anyone know what kinda guns they use /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Originally posted by 187coyote:
[qb]Have you thought about a slug gun? I just put a scope on my 870. I haven't hunted with it wet. I want to try it out with a slug on a coyote and see what I get. I have never had a problem with follow up shot using a pump.[/qb]
 
Hornady lists a load for the .44 mag in a TC Contender. It is the 200 gr. HP-XTP showing a max velocity of 2000 fps. That's in a 14" barrel. Not sure of the Ruger barrel length (18"-20" I would think). That should get your muzzle velocity up near 2200 fps. With a 150 yd zero, you are 1.9" high at 50 yds., +2.5" @ 75 yds., +2.4" @ 100 yds., 0" @ 150 yds., -6" @ 200 yds. You should be able to hold dead center out to around 170 yds. This just might be the ticket. You could also carry a 44 mag pistol. Two guns, same caliber.

Paul
 
I believe Ruger is still making their 44mag carbine. Had one years ago and killed a bunch of deer with it. I believe it held 11 rounds and semi auto. Short little gun with moderate recoil, good for fast follow ups, and just plain fun to shoot.
 
You guys are very creative /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif I've given the Contender some thought for several things.
Regarding your signature: How true it is!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Originally posted by Moose57:
[qb]Hornady lists a load for the .44 mag in a TC Contender. It is the 200 gr. HP-XTP showing a max velocity of 2000 fps. That's in a 14" barrel. Not sure of the Ruger barrel length (18"-20" I would think). That should get your muzzle velocity up near 2200 fps. With a 150 yd zero, you are 1.9" high at 50 yds., +2.5" @ 75 yds., +2.4" @ 100 yds., 0" @ 150 yds., -6" @ 200 yds. You should be able to hold dead center out to around 170 yds. This just might be the ticket. You could also carry a 44 mag pistol. Two guns, same caliber.

Paul[/qb]
 
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