All you fellas east of the Mississippi need to get your coyote killin' amped up. Just occurred to me that they are an invasive species and that is going to have ecological consequences if you boys don't get 'em cleaned out. Maybe if they were informed/educated about what invasive species do to the environment some of the "enlightened" antis would get off their duffs and help out. At the very least they could spring for a tank of gas or two, maybe a box of ammo, or too really show that they understand they could buy an aspiring young environmental defender (aka youth hunter) a set of calls and an appropriate shooting iron or dozen traps. How does that sound to everyone? Surely person123 and few like minded associates would be willing to put some money toward the cause they so fervently preach. You may be right, person123, maybe this is the right place for your crusade.
whydo you hunt predators?
- Thread starter person123
- Start date
stretch204
New member
The scientific part would be how fast and accurate a bullet flies
I hunt coyotes because it is fun-I don't need any other justification. However I am sure there are other positive benefits other than my fun-I will let others figure that out. Most people don't hunt coyotes or anything else because it is not fun for them-great-I ain't trying to recruit them nor deny them for that matter.
It is fun for me because it combines all the attributes of hunting-luck, woodsmanship, marksmanship, stealth, scent control, camo, calling, and probably a dozen more. And the season is open year round-no laying in front of the boob tube waiting for deer or squirrel season. And believe me I am not going to cause the extinction nor 'extirpation' of the coyotes in my hunting area. I am confident the non hunting ecogreenies kill more with their pseudoeco Prius' than I do with my AR-and they aint stopping driving because of the negative eco impact. TTT
It is fun for me because it combines all the attributes of hunting-luck, woodsmanship, marksmanship, stealth, scent control, camo, calling, and probably a dozen more. And the season is open year round-no laying in front of the boob tube waiting for deer or squirrel season. And believe me I am not going to cause the extinction nor 'extirpation' of the coyotes in my hunting area. I am confident the non hunting ecogreenies kill more with their pseudoeco Prius' than I do with my AR-and they aint stopping driving because of the negative eco impact. TTT
I don't know why I am responding to this. It pretty much been proven that you can't convince a person if they have their mind already made up.
But here it goes.
1. Natural Resources (In this case Wildlife Biology) really are a loose science. There are so many known/unknown and stochastic variables that prediction and modeling are challenging. You have a complex open system where many variables can change from compensatory to additive or the other way around depending upon other variables. "Scientists" try to predict and model population dynamics and trends but ultimately they are only a best guess scenario (kind of like a population estimate is really just that an estimate and not a true count). Many assumptions/theories are really just S.W.A.G's (Scientific Wild @$$ Guess).
Having got that off my chest. I will say many of the models and predictions are the best things we have but personal observation by many hunters/trappers/wildlife viewers should not be discounted if they don't agree with current science. But should help round out the picture or call for more intensive study.
2. Due to the "looseness" of the science personal opinion and views often "creep" into research and skew the science (whether intentionally or unintentionally). You can see two papers 1 written by an avid hunter on wolves, while another written by a environmentalist (I hate this term because it normally is associated that hunters don't care about the environment) on the same area don't agree on what is happening.
Do you see what I am getting at?
Compound the fact by "major" professors teaching "their" personal science and views (the majority are leaning towards environmentalism in my experience)and once again you are going to skew future studies by indoctrinated students (kind of like a perpetuating cycle).
Now for the fun stuff about coyotes.
1. Coyote populations are higher than they have ever been in the U.S. This is attributed to a few factors but mainly it is due to Humans. Coyotes are similar to raccoons, rats, ravens, magpies, mice, etc... in that they thrive in human disturbances and human environments. The habitat that we create and maintain benefits them (there is a fancy scientific term for it but it slips my mind). Couple that with humans managing wildife game species as well as the ecosystem health that all species depend on and livestock populations to as high as levels as is sustainable possible and you have a more consistent food source (from mice to big games) spread out more evenly across the U.S.
These variables plus others (e.g. wolf extirpation, rabies suppression, etc...) has led to the increase in coyote populations as a whole.
3. To effectively affect coyote populations you must remove between 60-90% to see any change. For my state which has an estimated population of 60,000-100,000 coyotes you would have to remove at a minimum 36,000 coyotes to possibly see any affect. Realistically this isn't going to happen unless the prey base takes a dive due to disease or the coyotes get hit with a disease.
4. What does this mean as hunters/trappers are concerned and the effect they are having on the populations?
It depends, but generally although we can't affect the population as a whole we can affect site specific areas and have an influence on them which will allow wildlife (think big game species or livestock) to thrive in specific areas. Also by removing coyotes from the population in certain instances disease transmission is minimized by remove certain vectors.
4. Human Health and Safety - This is a big question/topic for me also. Many coyotes have become habituated to humans and human areas and as such are a threat to human safety and health. Whether you agree with urban sprawl, you have to deal with the consequences it brings. For me NO coyote is worth seeing someone injured. I have zero tolerance for coyotes in the urban environment and less than zero tolerance for coyotes that have lost their fear of humans. Although these problem are caused in part by humans, lucky for us we have the solution to remove the problem coyotes.
I hope this explains only part of the reason why I hunt coyotes.
Luckily I don't have to have any reason besides "the want" to hunt them.
YMMV
But here it goes.
1. Natural Resources (In this case Wildlife Biology) really are a loose science. There are so many known/unknown and stochastic variables that prediction and modeling are challenging. You have a complex open system where many variables can change from compensatory to additive or the other way around depending upon other variables. "Scientists" try to predict and model population dynamics and trends but ultimately they are only a best guess scenario (kind of like a population estimate is really just that an estimate and not a true count). Many assumptions/theories are really just S.W.A.G's (Scientific Wild @$$ Guess).
Having got that off my chest. I will say many of the models and predictions are the best things we have but personal observation by many hunters/trappers/wildlife viewers should not be discounted if they don't agree with current science. But should help round out the picture or call for more intensive study.
2. Due to the "looseness" of the science personal opinion and views often "creep" into research and skew the science (whether intentionally or unintentionally). You can see two papers 1 written by an avid hunter on wolves, while another written by a environmentalist (I hate this term because it normally is associated that hunters don't care about the environment) on the same area don't agree on what is happening.
Do you see what I am getting at?
Compound the fact by "major" professors teaching "their" personal science and views (the majority are leaning towards environmentalism in my experience)and once again you are going to skew future studies by indoctrinated students (kind of like a perpetuating cycle).
Now for the fun stuff about coyotes.
1. Coyote populations are higher than they have ever been in the U.S. This is attributed to a few factors but mainly it is due to Humans. Coyotes are similar to raccoons, rats, ravens, magpies, mice, etc... in that they thrive in human disturbances and human environments. The habitat that we create and maintain benefits them (there is a fancy scientific term for it but it slips my mind). Couple that with humans managing wildife game species as well as the ecosystem health that all species depend on and livestock populations to as high as levels as is sustainable possible and you have a more consistent food source (from mice to big games) spread out more evenly across the U.S.
These variables plus others (e.g. wolf extirpation, rabies suppression, etc...) has led to the increase in coyote populations as a whole.
3. To effectively affect coyote populations you must remove between 60-90% to see any change. For my state which has an estimated population of 60,000-100,000 coyotes you would have to remove at a minimum 36,000 coyotes to possibly see any affect. Realistically this isn't going to happen unless the prey base takes a dive due to disease or the coyotes get hit with a disease.
4. What does this mean as hunters/trappers are concerned and the effect they are having on the populations?
It depends, but generally although we can't affect the population as a whole we can affect site specific areas and have an influence on them which will allow wildlife (think big game species or livestock) to thrive in specific areas. Also by removing coyotes from the population in certain instances disease transmission is minimized by remove certain vectors.
4. Human Health and Safety - This is a big question/topic for me also. Many coyotes have become habituated to humans and human areas and as such are a threat to human safety and health. Whether you agree with urban sprawl, you have to deal with the consequences it brings. For me NO coyote is worth seeing someone injured. I have zero tolerance for coyotes in the urban environment and less than zero tolerance for coyotes that have lost their fear of humans. Although these problem are caused in part by humans, lucky for us we have the solution to remove the problem coyotes.
I hope this explains only part of the reason why I hunt coyotes.
Luckily I don't have to have any reason besides "the want" to hunt them.
YMMV
Last edited:
the impactzone
New member
Originally Posted By: frankrI don't know why I am responding to this. It pretty much been proven that you can't convince a person if they have their mind already made up.
But here it goes.
1. Natural Resources (In this case Wildlife Biology) really are a loose science. There are so many known/unknown and stochastic variables that prediction and modeling are challenging. You have a complex open system where many variables can change from compensatory to additive or the other way around depending upon other variables. "Scientists" try to predict and model population dynamics and trends but ultimately they are only a best guess scenario (kind of like a population estimate is really just that an estimate and not a true count). Many assumptions/theories are really just S.W.A.G's (Scientific Wild @$$ Guess).
Having got that off my chest. I will say many of the models and predictions are the best things we have but personal observation by many hunters/trappers/wildlife viewers should not be discounted if they don't agree with current science. But should help round out the picture or call for more intensive study.
2. Due to the "looseness" of the science personal opinion and views often "creep" into research and skew the science (whether intentionally or unintentionally). You can see two papers 1 written by an avid hunter on wolves, while another written by a environmentalist (I hate this term because it normally is associated that hunters don't care about the environment) on the same area don't agree on what is happening.
Do you see what I am getting at?
Compound the fact by "major" professors teaching "their" personal science and views (the majority are leaning towards environmentalism in my experience)and once again you are going to skew future studies by indoctrinated students (kind of like a perpetuating cycle).
Now for the fun stuff about coyotes.
1. Coyote populations are higher than they have ever been in the U.S. This is attributed to a few factors but mainly it is due to Humans. Coyotes are similar to raccoons, rats, ravens, magpies, mice, etc... in that they thrive in human disturbances and human environments. The habitat that we create and maintain benefits them (there is a fancy scientific term for it but it slips my mind). Couple that with humans managing wildife game species as well as the ecosystem health that all species depend on and livestock populations to as high as levels as is sustainable possible and you have a more consistent food source (from mice to big games) spread out more evenly across the U.S.
These variables plus others (e.g. wolf extirpation, rabies suppression, etc...) has led to the increase in coyote populations as a whole.
3. To effectively affect coyote populations you must remove between 60-90% to see any change. For my state which has an estimated population of 60,000-100,000 coyotes you would have to remove at a minimum 36,000 coyotes to possibly see any affect. Realistically this isn't going to happen unless the prey base takes a dive due to disease or the coyotes get hit with a disease.
4. What does this mean as hunters/trappers are concerned and the effect they are having on the populations?
It depends, but generally although we can't affect the population as a whole we can affect site specific areas and have an influence on them which will allow wildlife (think big game species or livestock) to thrive in specific areas. Also by removing coyotes from the population in certain instances disease transmission is minimized by remove certain vectors.
4. Human Health and Safety - This is a big question/topic for me also. Many coyotes have become habituated to humans and human areas and as such are a threat to human safety and health. Whether you agree with urban sprawl, you have to deal with the consequences it brings. For me NO coyote is worth seeing someone injured. I have zero tolerance for coyotes in the urban environment and less than zero tolerance for coyotes that have lost their fear of humans. Although these problem are caused in part by humans, lucky for us we have the solution to remove the problem coyotes.
I hope this explains only part of the reason why I hunt coyotes.
Luckily I don't have to have any reason besides "the want" to hunt them.
YMMV
good post Frank +1 this shoudl answer 123's questions for pretty much all of us
But here it goes.
1. Natural Resources (In this case Wildlife Biology) really are a loose science. There are so many known/unknown and stochastic variables that prediction and modeling are challenging. You have a complex open system where many variables can change from compensatory to additive or the other way around depending upon other variables. "Scientists" try to predict and model population dynamics and trends but ultimately they are only a best guess scenario (kind of like a population estimate is really just that an estimate and not a true count). Many assumptions/theories are really just S.W.A.G's (Scientific Wild @$$ Guess).
Having got that off my chest. I will say many of the models and predictions are the best things we have but personal observation by many hunters/trappers/wildlife viewers should not be discounted if they don't agree with current science. But should help round out the picture or call for more intensive study.
2. Due to the "looseness" of the science personal opinion and views often "creep" into research and skew the science (whether intentionally or unintentionally). You can see two papers 1 written by an avid hunter on wolves, while another written by a environmentalist (I hate this term because it normally is associated that hunters don't care about the environment) on the same area don't agree on what is happening.
Do you see what I am getting at?
Compound the fact by "major" professors teaching "their" personal science and views (the majority are leaning towards environmentalism in my experience)and once again you are going to skew future studies by indoctrinated students (kind of like a perpetuating cycle).
Now for the fun stuff about coyotes.
1. Coyote populations are higher than they have ever been in the U.S. This is attributed to a few factors but mainly it is due to Humans. Coyotes are similar to raccoons, rats, ravens, magpies, mice, etc... in that they thrive in human disturbances and human environments. The habitat that we create and maintain benefits them (there is a fancy scientific term for it but it slips my mind). Couple that with humans managing wildife game species as well as the ecosystem health that all species depend on and livestock populations to as high as levels as is sustainable possible and you have a more consistent food source (from mice to big games) spread out more evenly across the U.S.
These variables plus others (e.g. wolf extirpation, rabies suppression, etc...) has led to the increase in coyote populations as a whole.
3. To effectively affect coyote populations you must remove between 60-90% to see any change. For my state which has an estimated population of 60,000-100,000 coyotes you would have to remove at a minimum 36,000 coyotes to possibly see any affect. Realistically this isn't going to happen unless the prey base takes a dive due to disease or the coyotes get hit with a disease.
4. What does this mean as hunters/trappers are concerned and the effect they are having on the populations?
It depends, but generally although we can't affect the population as a whole we can affect site specific areas and have an influence on them which will allow wildlife (think big game species or livestock) to thrive in specific areas. Also by removing coyotes from the population in certain instances disease transmission is minimized by remove certain vectors.
4. Human Health and Safety - This is a big question/topic for me also. Many coyotes have become habituated to humans and human areas and as such are a threat to human safety and health. Whether you agree with urban sprawl, you have to deal with the consequences it brings. For me NO coyote is worth seeing someone injured. I have zero tolerance for coyotes in the urban environment and less than zero tolerance for coyotes that have lost their fear of humans. Although these problem are caused in part by humans, lucky for us we have the solution to remove the problem coyotes.
I hope this explains only part of the reason why I hunt coyotes.
Luckily I don't have to have any reason besides "the want" to hunt them.
YMMV
good post Frank +1 this shoudl answer 123's questions for pretty much all of us
Redjaw
New member
Person123,
You started off this post with what seemed like a sincere desire to understand why we hunt coyotes and then you have turned it around to educate us. One thing I have in common with anti-hunters is we don't like liars. If you come on this site you need to know the general rules of respect and honesty.These qualities are respected beyond the hunting world. I wouldn't imagine going on a anti-hunting web site to educate them. They have their opinion and I have mine. Before you start educating folks you need to start off by being a straight forward and honest person, if your not, no matter what your stance is it can't be respected.
You started off this post with what seemed like a sincere desire to understand why we hunt coyotes and then you have turned it around to educate us. One thing I have in common with anti-hunters is we don't like liars. If you come on this site you need to know the general rules of respect and honesty.These qualities are respected beyond the hunting world. I wouldn't imagine going on a anti-hunting web site to educate them. They have their opinion and I have mine. Before you start educating folks you need to start off by being a straight forward and honest person, if your not, no matter what your stance is it can't be respected.
sittinpretty
New member
I think 123 just got educated
Originally Posted By: RedjawPerson123,
You started off this post with what seemed like a sincere desire to understand why we hunt coyotes and then you have turned it around to educate us. One thing I have in common with anti-hunters is we don't like liars. If you come on this site you need to know the general rules of respect and honesty.These qualities are respected beyond the hunting world. I wouldn't imagine going on a anti-hunting web site to educate them. They have their opinion and I have mine. Before you start educating folks you need to start off by being a straight forward and honest person, if your not, no matter what your stance is it can't be respected.
i see your point, i should have included my thoughts on coyotes from the start. my main reason for posting was to find out why people hunt predators, and to encourage them to study scientific research about them. i didnt make that clear though and youre right, its dishonest.
i do have a sincere curiosity about why people hunt. i also have a sincere desire to spread information about predator ecology. part of that is giving information that is contradictory to what some people believe is true. sorry i didnt make both these things clear.
You started off this post with what seemed like a sincere desire to understand why we hunt coyotes and then you have turned it around to educate us. One thing I have in common with anti-hunters is we don't like liars. If you come on this site you need to know the general rules of respect and honesty.These qualities are respected beyond the hunting world. I wouldn't imagine going on a anti-hunting web site to educate them. They have their opinion and I have mine. Before you start educating folks you need to start off by being a straight forward and honest person, if your not, no matter what your stance is it can't be respected.
i see your point, i should have included my thoughts on coyotes from the start. my main reason for posting was to find out why people hunt predators, and to encourage them to study scientific research about them. i didnt make that clear though and youre right, its dishonest.
i do have a sincere curiosity about why people hunt. i also have a sincere desire to spread information about predator ecology. part of that is giving information that is contradictory to what some people believe is true. sorry i didnt make both these things clear.
P123 -
I hope you were sincere in your question but I am afraid either way you are going to take a lot of flack.
After rereading my post, I should have edited it to read a little smother but I was thinking and typing pretty fast.
2 other parts/aspects eventually I will address and possibly make an informal paper/post (maybe with citations) are:
1. Emotion aspect of wildlife (what "feelings" anti's and hunters have for wildlife not "does wildlife have feelings")
2. Social aspect of wildlife for humans
I don't think you can just use scientific data to arrive at a conclusion in this day and age regarding wildlife. We are all to tainted due to media and other social aspects. Example - if we looked at raw scientific data we would extirpate wild horses from the U.S. Now before anyone jumps down my throat on this one it's just and example of an introduce species. Also most goals are set due to Emotional or Social influence (which is why politicians can get things to happen with no scientific data backing them, only public opinion)
BTW - you provided 2 links to read. I haven't had time to read them but I did look at the date from the first and it is from 1981 - I do realize research in ADC and coyotes isn't a top priority but there should be some newer stuff out there, at least for population trends and impacts to ecosystem health
as always YMMV
Originally Posted By: person123Originally Posted By: frankrI don't know why I am responding to this. It pretty much been proven that you can't convince a person if they have their mind already made up.
But here it goes.
YMMV
this was a very informative post. thanks
I hope you were sincere in your question but I am afraid either way you are going to take a lot of flack.
After rereading my post, I should have edited it to read a little smother but I was thinking and typing pretty fast.
2 other parts/aspects eventually I will address and possibly make an informal paper/post (maybe with citations) are:
1. Emotion aspect of wildlife (what "feelings" anti's and hunters have for wildlife not "does wildlife have feelings")
2. Social aspect of wildlife for humans
I don't think you can just use scientific data to arrive at a conclusion in this day and age regarding wildlife. We are all to tainted due to media and other social aspects. Example - if we looked at raw scientific data we would extirpate wild horses from the U.S. Now before anyone jumps down my throat on this one it's just and example of an introduce species. Also most goals are set due to Emotional or Social influence (which is why politicians can get things to happen with no scientific data backing them, only public opinion)
BTW - you provided 2 links to read. I haven't had time to read them but I did look at the date from the first and it is from 1981 - I do realize research in ADC and coyotes isn't a top priority but there should be some newer stuff out there, at least for population trends and impacts to ecosystem health
as always YMMV
Originally Posted By: person123Originally Posted By: frankrI don't know why I am responding to this. It pretty much been proven that you can't convince a person if they have their mind already made up.
But here it goes.
YMMV
this was a very informative post. thanks
the impactzone
New member
123 I think you found a great spot to start your research look in predator bio and you will find lots of answers to your questions, and not on coyotes alone
CrazyHorse66
New member
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but a non hunter from New York posting a loaded question as you did in your OP screams "activist". You have admitted that you have brought a "crusade" to these boards. You came loaded with links to "educate" us. It appears that you have a preconceived notion of the morality of what we do.
I have little tolerance for those who have an agenda to curtail my freedoms. There is way too much of that put forth by the "progressive" element of our society.
None-the-less you have stated you have an interest in possibly hunting in your future. I'll give you the benefit of my doubts for that reason alone.
Originally Posted By: person123
the main reasons i made this thread was to find out why people hunt predators, encourage people to research the ecology of predator control, and learn things from personal experience of hunters.
That's a 3 part request.
#1 The majority on this board, I would say, are people who love the "sport" of hunting. They hunt for fun. Does that mean they get a kick out of cruelly killing "innocent" animals for fun and spits and giggles? No.
For the most part, it is the experience of enjoying nature and all of God's creation at a first person level. We don't need to do it for food, but it does provide that benefit. The point is that we see more of nature firsthand between daybreak and 9AM then most people see all year.
Predator hunting, specifically, adds the challenge of hunting an animal that is on extreme high alert as it comes to a call. Coyotes have thrived because of their keen senses and intelligence and overcoming the challenge and harvesting one gives me the sense that I have done well blending with nature. The added benefit is that the animal I harvested won't be raiding quail nests, or my chicken house, killing fawns, eating my melons or getting into my garbage. To me, the thrill is 10X that of harvesting a fat doe, unwittingly walking in front of my blind, although I appreciate that experience also...
Others on this board include those who make a living controlling predators, such as Animal Damage Control specialists, Nuisance Wildlife Control operators, hunting guides, etc.
Then there's ranchers, farmers, landowners, etc. that are looking to get a leg up on controlling problems associated with their land management.
#2. On the subject of ecology and the ecosystem:
Most hunters/outdoorsman are keenly aware of the cyclic nature of predator/prey numbers. Thanks to the ethical harvesting of various species at quotas set by the state, for the most part we are seeing some of the best hunting ever in North America.
Most of us despise poachers and slob hunters and are quick to condemn those who treat our "playgrounds" with disrespect. We understand the importance of conservation and ethical behaviour.
I personally find your perceived need to further my education to be condescending. I'll chalk it up to your ignorance of the "sport".
#3. Welcome to Predator Masters. There are more personal experiences of hunters here than you can read in a year...
Originally Posted By: person123i will be posting a summary of my thoughts on coyote hunting soon, but i need to research more.
Maybe I should give you the number of my mother-in-law, whose beloved dachshund, Corndog was found last week... Or I should say the spine and hind legs were found last week... killed by yotes in her own yard. Her neighbor's Rottweiler was discovered two weeks prior in a similar condition.
Originally Posted By: person123 im planning on getting a small game license soon and possibly hunting deer as well in the future. i may even hunt coyotes but i need to do more research.
This is the only reason i chose to give you a serious reply. I strongly encourage you to do so and educate yourself firsthand on why we cherish the sport and the great outdoors. I also strongly encourage you to take a kid hunting, but only after training on safe firearms practices and learning basic survival skills. I will also point out that the license fees paid by sportsman are a big part of why the ecology is fine and the hunting is good. We fund the management of the game and habitat.
Nothing you read on the internet comes close to the first hand knowledge and experience.
This is a blanket post, covering my thoughts on the subject, with apologies to anyone who thinks I left something important out.
I have little tolerance for those who have an agenda to curtail my freedoms. There is way too much of that put forth by the "progressive" element of our society.
None-the-less you have stated you have an interest in possibly hunting in your future. I'll give you the benefit of my doubts for that reason alone.
Originally Posted By: person123
the main reasons i made this thread was to find out why people hunt predators, encourage people to research the ecology of predator control, and learn things from personal experience of hunters.
That's a 3 part request.
#1 The majority on this board, I would say, are people who love the "sport" of hunting. They hunt for fun. Does that mean they get a kick out of cruelly killing "innocent" animals for fun and spits and giggles? No.
For the most part, it is the experience of enjoying nature and all of God's creation at a first person level. We don't need to do it for food, but it does provide that benefit. The point is that we see more of nature firsthand between daybreak and 9AM then most people see all year.
Predator hunting, specifically, adds the challenge of hunting an animal that is on extreme high alert as it comes to a call. Coyotes have thrived because of their keen senses and intelligence and overcoming the challenge and harvesting one gives me the sense that I have done well blending with nature. The added benefit is that the animal I harvested won't be raiding quail nests, or my chicken house, killing fawns, eating my melons or getting into my garbage. To me, the thrill is 10X that of harvesting a fat doe, unwittingly walking in front of my blind, although I appreciate that experience also...
Others on this board include those who make a living controlling predators, such as Animal Damage Control specialists, Nuisance Wildlife Control operators, hunting guides, etc.
Then there's ranchers, farmers, landowners, etc. that are looking to get a leg up on controlling problems associated with their land management.
#2. On the subject of ecology and the ecosystem:
Most hunters/outdoorsman are keenly aware of the cyclic nature of predator/prey numbers. Thanks to the ethical harvesting of various species at quotas set by the state, for the most part we are seeing some of the best hunting ever in North America.
Most of us despise poachers and slob hunters and are quick to condemn those who treat our "playgrounds" with disrespect. We understand the importance of conservation and ethical behaviour.
I personally find your perceived need to further my education to be condescending. I'll chalk it up to your ignorance of the "sport".
#3. Welcome to Predator Masters. There are more personal experiences of hunters here than you can read in a year...
Originally Posted By: person123i will be posting a summary of my thoughts on coyote hunting soon, but i need to research more.
Maybe I should give you the number of my mother-in-law, whose beloved dachshund, Corndog was found last week... Or I should say the spine and hind legs were found last week... killed by yotes in her own yard. Her neighbor's Rottweiler was discovered two weeks prior in a similar condition.
Originally Posted By: person123 im planning on getting a small game license soon and possibly hunting deer as well in the future. i may even hunt coyotes but i need to do more research.
This is the only reason i chose to give you a serious reply. I strongly encourage you to do so and educate yourself firsthand on why we cherish the sport and the great outdoors. I also strongly encourage you to take a kid hunting, but only after training on safe firearms practices and learning basic survival skills. I will also point out that the license fees paid by sportsman are a big part of why the ecology is fine and the hunting is good. We fund the management of the game and habitat.
Nothing you read on the internet comes close to the first hand knowledge and experience.
This is a blanket post, covering my thoughts on the subject, with apologies to anyone who thinks I left something important out.
I hunt coyotes for several reasons. In the late 70's and early eighties when fur prices were good I did it for profit. I trapped and hunted both. during that time period there were lots of trappers and populations were kept in check. We had lots of deer and antelope during that time period. For several years after the fur crash I continued to be a paid hunter by the state and private ranchers. Now I mostly hunt for pleasure and also because we need to control the predators in our area. Our big game and game bird species have undergone a severe decline due to an ongoing drought and predation. God gave us dominion over the land and animals and I take that to heart. Many groups want to take us humans out of the equation but we are intricately woven into all plant and animal species survival. Do we always get it right? No. But the environmental, ecological and animal rights groups don't use science at all they use emotion. They try to cram their feelings and beliefs on everyone else. The wolf re-introduction in Yellowstone is a good example. Most hunters aren’t against the wolf if proper management would be allowed. But every time management by the local biologists is recommended these groups try to stop it. They do not use the science, they use emotion. As far as the elk in Yellowstone goes. They could easily have been managed if they would have allowed limited hunting. Now the wolf is decimating big game populations across the west and it is a constant battle to allow biological science to manage the wolf populations. Sport hunting stimulates the economy and the wolf has decimated the economy of many of these regions. Coyotes are like cockroaches. We will never eradicate them. We can help control them and help balance their populations within the caring capacity of their range and give other species a chance to maintain their balance as well. This is what an educated person would advocate.
The bottom line for me is I hunt them because they are challenging, their population needs to be controlled,big game opportunities in my area are very restricted due to low population numbers, biology supports it and it is just plain fun.
drscott
The bottom line for me is I hunt them because they are challenging, their population needs to be controlled,big game opportunities in my area are very restricted due to low population numbers, biology supports it and it is just plain fun.
drscott
canislatrans54
New member
Person123......
You ask for "scientific reasoning".
I applaud [sp] your interest in wanting a scientific basis for hunting/killing of coyotes.
As a 3rd generation coyote hunter, with 4 decades of experience of hunting coyotes in various ways...I could give you quite a large "laundry list" of why I hunt coyotes, And why my father, grandfather & great-uncles have done it.
However, instead, I want to try and give you the scientific reasoning you have asked for.
The following research book, published by the Kansas State University (originally in 1957, then revised in 1968)...while seemingly outdated, is one of the best "scientific" researches into coyotes; their biology; economic impacts; populations & control thereof; and both benifits & detriments of having an overabundance of coyote populations.
Some of the items referenced in the book, such as "bounties", no longer apply in the state of Kansas. However, they may still apply to a degree in other states.
This "book" can be found in PDF form, by googling the following......
"SB393 Coyotes in Kansas (revis. 1968) "
The original printed research consisted of 115 pages.
Edited to add:
Do you play the game of Chess, sir?
If so, then the following statement might make sense to you.
The event of using a predator call, especially one of which you actually make the sounds yourself, opposed to using an electronic version (no offense meant to those e-call users among us)...is in many ways a true game of strategy...very comparable to playing against someone who is well-versed in the game of Chess.
You, as the hunter, are playing a game against one of the wariest. & most cunning creatures on this contenant...one who lives & dies by using all of it's abilities to survive.
You ask for "scientific reasoning".
I applaud [sp] your interest in wanting a scientific basis for hunting/killing of coyotes.
As a 3rd generation coyote hunter, with 4 decades of experience of hunting coyotes in various ways...I could give you quite a large "laundry list" of why I hunt coyotes, And why my father, grandfather & great-uncles have done it.
However, instead, I want to try and give you the scientific reasoning you have asked for.
The following research book, published by the Kansas State University (originally in 1957, then revised in 1968)...while seemingly outdated, is one of the best "scientific" researches into coyotes; their biology; economic impacts; populations & control thereof; and both benifits & detriments of having an overabundance of coyote populations.
Some of the items referenced in the book, such as "bounties", no longer apply in the state of Kansas. However, they may still apply to a degree in other states.
This "book" can be found in PDF form, by googling the following......
"SB393 Coyotes in Kansas (revis. 1968) "
The original printed research consisted of 115 pages.
Edited to add:
Do you play the game of Chess, sir?
If so, then the following statement might make sense to you.
The event of using a predator call, especially one of which you actually make the sounds yourself, opposed to using an electronic version (no offense meant to those e-call users among us)...is in many ways a true game of strategy...very comparable to playing against someone who is well-versed in the game of Chess.
You, as the hunter, are playing a game against one of the wariest. & most cunning creatures on this contenant...one who lives & dies by using all of it's abilities to survive.
Last edited:
Varminterror
New member
Wow, 76 replies and 4 pages over the last 14hrs!!! All for a non-hunting troll post!!!
Personally, I could care less about answering the post, BUT, I will anyway.
I'm a rancher and shepherd. Coyotes are damaging to livestock herds, obvious, I won't go any further with the process.
Here's how we ultimately see effect on ecosystems in my area: Mice/rodentia populations in agricultural fields and are generally controlled by chemical application, so coyotes effect is somewhat gravy on top.
Rabbit populations ARE dependent upon coyote populations. It's an ebb and flow if humans aren't involved. Too many rabbits one year will see too many coyotes the next year, then NONE of either on the following year (may happen in 1yr cycles, 3yr cycles, or 10yr cycles, variable). BUT, coyotes don't just eat rabbits. When coyote populations boom due to rabbits, then they overwhelm the rabbits, they're forced to find OTHER FEED, meaning attacking livestock. Hunters can keep coyotes in check at a sustainable population that self-mitigates (as well as hunting rabbits), and keep the coyotes from wiping out the rabbits and predating livestock out of necessity.
In my area, we see cycles corresponding to the generations of the human population. All of our high school kids hunt coyotes, but in general, few of the older adults do. Most of the folks in the area are around the same age, so there's little diversity in generations, i.e. all of our kids are within a few years of eachother out of each generation, with gaps between. WHAT THAT MEANS: we have a lot of kids hunting coyotes for a few years, then none for a few years, then more again a few years later, then none, off and on. In those off years, we see booms in rabbit populations, followed by booms in coyote populations, then years where the coyotes become damaging to livestock operations. Then guys will go hunting again, and get things back in check. It only takes a few years without hunting pressure for coyotes to 1) wipe out the rabbit population, 2) start damaging livestock, and 3) start transmitting mange and disease.
Personally, I could care less about answering the post, BUT, I will anyway.
I'm a rancher and shepherd. Coyotes are damaging to livestock herds, obvious, I won't go any further with the process.
Here's how we ultimately see effect on ecosystems in my area: Mice/rodentia populations in agricultural fields and are generally controlled by chemical application, so coyotes effect is somewhat gravy on top.
Rabbit populations ARE dependent upon coyote populations. It's an ebb and flow if humans aren't involved. Too many rabbits one year will see too many coyotes the next year, then NONE of either on the following year (may happen in 1yr cycles, 3yr cycles, or 10yr cycles, variable). BUT, coyotes don't just eat rabbits. When coyote populations boom due to rabbits, then they overwhelm the rabbits, they're forced to find OTHER FEED, meaning attacking livestock. Hunters can keep coyotes in check at a sustainable population that self-mitigates (as well as hunting rabbits), and keep the coyotes from wiping out the rabbits and predating livestock out of necessity.
In my area, we see cycles corresponding to the generations of the human population. All of our high school kids hunt coyotes, but in general, few of the older adults do. Most of the folks in the area are around the same age, so there's little diversity in generations, i.e. all of our kids are within a few years of eachother out of each generation, with gaps between. WHAT THAT MEANS: we have a lot of kids hunting coyotes for a few years, then none for a few years, then more again a few years later, then none, off and on. In those off years, we see booms in rabbit populations, followed by booms in coyote populations, then years where the coyotes become damaging to livestock operations. Then guys will go hunting again, and get things back in check. It only takes a few years without hunting pressure for coyotes to 1) wipe out the rabbit population, 2) start damaging livestock, and 3) start transmitting mange and disease.
