How often should I have to retune my bow?

Yoteless in Ohio

New member
This past spring I purchased a Hoyt rampage xt.

Very long story short, I have not been happy with it. I shoot inch groups at twenty yards and foot groups at thirty. I cnat hit the bag all the time at forty. Supposedly my form, draw length and hold are all good.

iam seriously considering selling it and going back to my old bear g2 single cam.

I have been to three different bow shops, as I just don't trust the guys I bought it from, another long story.

In a two week period it had been tinkered with by pros 3 times. They have messed with center shot, timing, knock point. Each one said that something different was wrong.

The last place I took it said the timing was off. I'm trying not to get excited about it but was told when I bought the bow that cam timing would not be an issue as it is a cam and a half bow.

The last place also had me shoot it through paper and it shot way low left and the guy said to ignore it and that it didn't mean anything.

So it should not surprise me that the string would stretch after a couple hundred arrows, but how soon is that going to go out again?

I am hoping that it is finally dialed in. If it is, how often should I assume I have to get it tuned? Yearly, monthly? I have waaayyyy too much money in this bow right now that I may use three weekends this fall.

I am remembering why I gave up bow hunting with a bow a couple of years ago. Way too many thing that can go wrong!
 
Get a set of winners choice strings and cables and you'll be all but done with the tuning stuff. Too many strings and cables out there stretch and cause your cams to come out of tune. Get good no stretch strings and cables on it, get your timing and center shot tuned and you should be good to go until its time to replace your strings and cables. I replace mine every couple of years whether they need it or not.
 
Cam and a half bows aren't immune to timing issues. Sure, they're more forgiving, but even twin/binary/dual cam bows are susceptible to timing issues.

BUT, you can check timing yourself with the help of a friend. Hoyt Cam & 1/2 cams have witness marks to help you determine if you're properly timed together, and of course, you can have a friend (or use a draw board) watch your draw stops as you draw the bow to confirm that they're making contact simultaneously.

Personally, I'm with you. I don't trust shops. Period. So few of these guys are actually skilled or knowledgeable, and you can (as you are now) end up running a rat race trying to find the help you need, all the while, at each shop, they're probably tuning something FURTHER OUT OF IDEAL thinking that they're fixing the problem.

There's a million different things that could be wrong, from fletching contact to improper arrow spine to cam lean etc etc.

I'd start at ground zero as if you had just bought a used bow, and put it through some troubleshooting and "standard bow set up" paces.

PM me if you want some help trouble shooting, I'm not a paid pro tech, but I play one on tv (or rather in my own shop, setting up, troubleshooting, and tuning about a dozen bows a year for my buddies). There are few things in life that I enjoy more than a "problem bow". So many things to tinker with, and it's oh so enjoyable when she finally starts stacking sticks!
 
First (and most important) place to start is setting the bow to it's factory specs. Axle to axle length, brace height and(if dual cam)tiller.
Then cam timing or sync. This is done by twisting strings and cables to their correct lengths. If the string and cables are of decent quality they will pretty much be seated after a few dozen shots. If anyone tells you a cam and a half doesn't need timed, kick 'em in the nads and walk out the door!

Next, paper tune to determine arrow spine, center shot, contact, form, etc.
At this point (if done correctly) your bow will be shooting decent. This stage shooter ability comes in to play. Half to most will be shooting better than they ever had. But for some (picky Guys like me) micro or group tuning begins. Small (very small) adjustments to center shot, poundage and nock height will bring quality built broadheads and field points together.

Micro or group tune: Place a one foot cross + on your target ( if using duct tape tear in half lengthwise) aim at the edge of the tape and shoot at 30 yards. Shoot in only one plane (Dont try to shoot a group! I usually start with vertical) 6 arrows and see which side of the tape edge arrows impact. Move rest accordingly (left or right) to bring this impact in vertical line. Then do the same in horizontal plane. Correct by moving nock point (or rest if movable in this plane) up or down. When arrows are impacting the tape in both planes shoot for group. There is also a bare shaft tuning method. It can be a big can of worms for someone less experienced so try this one first.

This all sounds kinda complicated but it's really not. Any pro shop mechanic worth his salt will be able to easily put your bow in spec, get you paper tuned and if they have a range help you micro tune. If they dont have a range (like I said it's not rocket science) you can micro/group tune yourself.
 
Nice post Varminterror.
You posted while I was penning my novel and I wouldn't have had to think so hard lol.
Good advice for you yoteless, you'll be grouping broadheads at a hundred in no time
 
I will keep everyone posted.

I went out today and shot and was really pleased with the results after my last tuning.

I was regularly hitting the 2 inch dot at 30 and 40 yds. My last shot was a perfect bullseye at 40. (hung it up for the day after that) The ones that didn't hit the dot hit where I thought they would as I knew when I released it was a bad shot.

I am pretty happy at this point. But I have not started with the broad heads yet.

I have some fine tuning to do I am sure once I start shooting broad heads. What is interesting is at the paper tuning indicates that there is a problem, but at least with field points I am doing good.

I will get new strings next spring and start with the basics for sure. It will be a good exercise to learn my bow better. Unfortunately for now I am running out of time. With the results I got today I know I could at least hunt heaven forbid with a mechanical head to thirty yards.

I am printing everyone's posts to reference next year. Thanks a bunch.
 
I generally look at statements like "paper tuning indicates that there is a problem, but at least with field points I am doing good" in this light: You're shooting that well poorly tuned, how well would you be shooting ideally tuned?

Tuning might seem like a long, drawn out process, but it's a wives-tale that shops like to propagate to keep people coming back for service. I can set up a bow from new in box with a cam lean issue to (near as I can get to) perfectly tuned in a Saturday. I didn't think it was possible, but a buddy of mine broke a limb on his old bow last year, bought an Outlaw that we eventually discovered had a cam lean problem from factory, and hunted it the next week. Took us one day to set center shot, paper tune, bareshaft tune his arrows, sight it in, realize the cam lean issue, adjust the lean, RE-set for center shot, RE-tune the rest, and RE-sight in. We WERE lucky, however, that he and I shoot the same shafts. I had a set of pre-bareshaft tuned and fletched arrows that matched his for model and length, so we were able to tune the bow with MY arrows, then bareshaft tune HIS arrows and get fletching glued and drying so they were ready the next day. If we were going from bare arrows, we'd have lost an extra day waiting on glue to dry before we could have finalized his sight pins.

So I'd generally agree, there's not much time left before season starts, but there's plenty of time to re-tune your bow.
 
I also generally get new string and cable every season, or at least every other, and I double check my tuning (paper tuning, cam timing, cam alignment) every time I re-sight my bow. I change arrows I'd guess 5-10 times a year, depending on how many different purposes I'm shooting (deer, turkey, 3D, indoor, etc etc), so I end up checking up on my bows a LOT.
 
I can't get out of my head that my last two cheap bows never needed this much attention...sighted them in and killed deer. Of course I never shot past 30 yds back then. So maybe they were worse and I got lucky.

For a variety of reasons I can't spend much more time and no more money on it this year. Bummer is the whole reason I got the bow was for the two weekends I am hunting in WV where I cannot use my crossbow. Been a pretty big investment for a few hours of hunting. I was hoping it would go well enough that I would give up my crossbow here in Ohio too. Not yet though....

So the big question is, can I hope for it to continue to shoot well through the next two months or will it need retuned again as a fairly new bow still breaking in?
 
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Shot my broad heads tonight. Didn't do that great. Still printing good groups with my field tips, but they were a little lower than this morning but I had the sense not to change the sights. I was probably getting a little tired. And have driven myself nuts in the past changing sights Everytime I go out.

I really want to shoot fixed blades as I don't know how to make myself trust mechanicals. I will have to keep on working on it.
 
As far as your bow needing retuned. The paper tune showed a substantial rip, "low left" The low left tear is also typical of a stiff spined arrow. The chances are when the broadheads are screwed on there will be issues. The mechanicals will help some no doubt. But the bow tune should not change substantially over short periods of time. Unless, there is something terribley wrong with string and cable system, limbs or arrow rest.. Pay close attention on how you place your hand in the bow. Inconsistent grip can make a drastic difference in arrow flight and grouping.
Look up the specs on your bow (axle to axle,brace height correct string and cable length) have your chosen shop set the bow to them. After that is done it should be very close to the setting marks on cam, if it has them. With minimal twists to string and or cables should now bring the cam to it's optimal setting. Given your perceived time restraint paper tune the bow to a 1/8th of an inch nock high tear and sight in. This should only take the bow mechanic an hour or so. This will not be a "perfect" tune and will most likley need sighted in for broadheads but should give you a shootable bow. Not trying to hound you. Just want you to have a successful season!
 
Doa....I'm open to any ideas, thanks.

I just have to find a shop of choice. The last one I went to that seemed to do the best job was the one that blew off the paper tuning.

I don't know what the setting marks would be on the cam. Someone suggested marking the cam now that it is timed properly. I'll try to do that too.

I don't know anything about arrow spine. Can you clarify what you mean by stiff spined arrow? One thing everyone agreed on where I went was that I had the right arrows.
 
An arrow has to flex a certain amount durring the launch for it to shoot correctly. After the launch the arrow then nodes (flexes in the middle back and forth) all the way to target. Vanes or feathers correcting the arrow every few feet steadily steering the arrow in a straight path. If it flexes to little (stiff spine) or to much (weak spine) the arrow will stray from it's path.
 
Ok. I'll check on my arrows again. I'm shooting beman ics 400s to hunt with. They seem to fly the best of the two arrows brands that I have.
 
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It's almost certainly an under spined arrow.Doesn't matter if it's a longbow,recurve or any type of compound.If the arrows shoot inconsistently and worse with broadheads 99% of the time that's the cause.
 
Although we do know cam type, we do not know draw length, bow poundage, arrow length, point weight, fletching type, arrow rest. Makes it impossible to diagnose proper arrow spine. Especially over the net!
A 400 spine (Beman 400 ICS) is kind of a meat and potato arrow. Commonly tuneable in set ups used by average adult men. If three different techs at three different shops have said arrow spine to be correct, we have to assume it's within your dynamic spine parameters.
This leaves fletching contact, form, bow and cam specs, center shot.
Dont know what rest you shoot but when single cam or hybrid cams are introduced to full containment style rests like whisker biscuits you can more times than not throw the old standard stiff arrow weak arrow paper tune indicators out the window.
Good luck this season Yote!
 
Originally Posted By: doaAn arrow has to flex a certain amount durring the launch for it to shoot correctly.

In my experience, this is a myth for compound bows. Yes, a shaft with a certain flex will be a little more forgiving (say of bow torque, punching, imperfect form, non-exact rest position, etc), but in general, you can never shoot a shaft too stiff. And I'm not the only one that thinks that way. Call Tim Gillingham tomorrow morning when Gold Tip opens, he'll tell you the same thing. The stiffer the arrow, the better it will fly, and FASTER, because it's not wasting energy from the bow by flopping around like a fish. Finger shooters on recurve bows or longbows need a lot of flop to compensate for string torque, so selecting arrow spine is more critical for them, but compound shooters have the luxury of "too much is enough".

Of course, yes, on the other side of the spectrum, a shaft DOES need to be "stiff enough", but if my bow needs a .340" spine, I'd rather shoot a .200" or .300". I'd rather chase excellence to improve myself than shoot a "forgiving" set up (next ask me my opinion on brace height
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Confirming whether you have the right arrow spine or not is easy though. Double check the spine charts, and if your arrow spine is marginal, find a buddy or a shop with a "test arrow" that's one step higher spine. Shoot them and see if you notice a tail whip. Punch one through paper while you're at it. You can also try shooting a lighter tip weight (not great for FOC, but will help tell if you have a spine problem).
 
Originally Posted By: Yoteless in OhioI can't get out of my head that my last two cheap bows never needed this much attention...

What I think you're seeing is that "bow-tech" is a term that's being kicked around very willy nilly these days. It's likely that when you took your bow in to get tuned, it got tuned properly. These days, it's more likely that they took it in the back for 5min, texted their wife about what's for dinner, then brought it back out and said everything was fine. Like ANY customer service, bow-techs are going the way of walmart. They don't need a highly skilled guy that can ACTUALLY tune a bow, they just need some slack-jawed guys that can run a bow press, tie in peeps, and use a laser to center shot a bow, and send a customer out the door.

Just like your own experience, you'll find so-called "bow-techs" that will SEE A PROBLEM WHEN PAPER TUNING, then turn around and say "well, if you're hitting where you want to be, you can ignore that". I want to be their mechanic when they come in for an alignment problem in their car. "Well, if the car gets you where you need to go, then you can ignore that"... Wrong on both counts.

I had the same experience almost 10yrs ago now. I needed a bow tuned, it took me FOREVER bouncing from shop to shop to figure out what was wrong, until I found THE ONE GUY that would actually set up a bow properly. At that point, I knew I didn't want to be dependent upon ONE GUY, and I knew I would move someday, so I learned as much as I could from him, and from any other source I could, so I can tune everything myself now.
 
Higher paradox in recurve and compound finger shooters bows helped arrows clear non cut risers.
Have to dissagree on none too stiff. Indoor at specific distance i would agree.
I know Tim. Shot against him some. No need to talk to him.
Although I do agree with you that a slightly too stiff spine is better than a weak spine.
 
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