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#2280880 - 08/31/12 03:27 PM The actual Decoy dog training of a dog. + dog containment for home.
cjdavis618 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 1001
Loc: Beebe AR
I have read the books on the training dogs, watched the videos, etc. Most all of these deal with dog obedience, recognizing behaviors and correcting and in the SSU video testing for prey drive. I guess I am ready for SSU class 202 for when I get a young pup to start from scratch someday.

How does one take a dog and "teach" him to be a good decoy dog. From what I read on here, it seems to be more of a natural progression if the dog has what it takes. Is there something that you guys do during the hunt to discourage certain behavior and the praise the parts you like. I know most of us use E collars for the dogs for simple commands which they have been taught, and those can be used to re-enforce them to do something they understand if being stubborn.

But my question is how is the dog taught that you want them to cast out, distract and then lure coyotes back. All of this without the fighting and even apprehension by some dogs. Is it as simple as letting the dog run out on his own to a certain distance to a coyote, then calling/toning him back at that time. Then doing that enough that he just keeps doing it?

Maybe a dumb question to some, but I want to put the pieces together from the normal obedience training and then the actual hunt training.


Secondly, as for hunting the coyotes. Do you think being able to "Read" coyote language has helped train the dogs, or maybe training the dogs helps to let you learn more about coyotes?





Edited by cjdavis618 (09/03/12 04:03 PM)
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#2281050 - 08/31/12 07:38 PM Re: The actual Decoy dog training of a dog. [Re: cjdavis618]
coyote1758 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 489
Loc: nichlosville,ky
With all that is going happening on another post I will say I am no expert. With the dog I have I did just what you posted,I let her go out and then toned her back and the coyote came with her. However I do not want mine to ingage the yote just being it back to me so I can do my job. Not sure I taught her anything but she is doing what it want. And having a great time.hope this is some help and good luck on getting a dog.

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#2281074 - 08/31/12 08:03 PM Re: The actual Decoy dog training of a dog. [Re: coyote1758]
btech29 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 01/17/11
Posts: 1461
Loc: NW Arkansas
One word. "Repetition".
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You can tell a lot about a man by watching him cross a fence.

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#2281856 - 09/02/12 12:13 AM Re: The actual Decoy dog training of a dog. [Re: cjdavis618]
Duane@ssu Offline
Retired moderator

Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 4095
Loc: Gods Country
Btech nailed it !!!! But you also answered your own ?
If you don't have a good knowledge of coyotes, and how they behave, how can you teach that to a dog, and expect the dog to be successful?????
It can be learned with time in the feild and watching yotes, instead of just killin them.
I'll let you in on a big secrect, that the other guys do just as I do, we spend hours and hours, "watching coyotes".
Not glamourous, nothing more than learin from the best teacher. I am blessed that I can watch yotes everyday right off my front porch. I have learned more from that than any book, dvd, magazine.
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#2282162 - 09/02/12 03:38 PM Re: The actual Decoy dog training of a dog. [Re: cjdavis618]
cjdavis618 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 1001
Loc: Beebe AR
I figured that was the case. And I have coyote hunted for years but maybe haven't killed as many as most of you westerners and north central state guys. Certainly not able to watch them except in my back field from time to time at night.

What I meant about videos and such was more the dog training aspect of obedience, etc. I find that Havoc is a bit bull headed at times and I want to work with him on certain things. Obviously not wanting to make a house dog out of him though.

Like I said, I figured it was a dumb question. But, like I said, this side of things is new to me. The Coyote hunting is not. Thanks to those that took the time to chime in. I figured with so many experts here, I would get at least 5 different opinions.
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#2282498 - 09/02/12 10:59 PM Re: The actual Decoy dog training of a dog. [Re: cjdavis618]
TonyTebbe Offline
Retired PM Staff.

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 18681
Loc: Lovington, NM
Are you talking about training of a young pup or an older one, like Havoc? The techniques I use are different, depending on what age and the mental development of the dog.

Tony
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#2282536 - 09/02/12 11:55 PM Re: The actual Decoy dog training of a dog. [Re: TonyTebbe]
cjdavis618 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 1001
Loc: Beebe AR
Havoc has it pretty well down, it is just getting him to go out from what I can tell so far. I was talking about if I should add another pup to the mix really. The only thing I want to work on with havoc is scent trailing and some basic obedience commands so I can call him off visitors and land owners when we take them hunting.

Havoc and I called in 2 this morning but the lead dog got close to the call but he wouldn't engage. He was ready, Ears perked up, legs stiff and leaning forward, but he didn't go out even after I gave him the go ahead. Maybe Scott did it a bit different than I do on the command and he didn't understand. I let the scene play out and once the coyote ran back to the woods, he took off. I think he was waiting for the shot on this call. Never saw them again though. Pretty small coyotes and probably yoys and didn't want to tangle with him.

We are still working out each others style and I'm sure with more coyotes we will mesh pretty well. It took a few hunts for Doc and I as well.

Havoc's only issue is trying to get out of the kennel and explore. And some separation anxiety when I leave him. He will whine and bark (Which I ignore) and that has gotten better. We have 3 acres in the house area and another 36 in the back. The other afternoon we found him out in the back field roaming around. Couldn't figure out how he got out until my wife told me to come watch him after we put him back in. He was jumping up to the top of the 6ft kennel fence and pulling himself over it to get out. We had already fixed the digging out problem he had so that was his last option I guess. He wasn't using anything to get up there either. The dog can jump, that is for sure. On the bright side, Loading/unloading is great with him. grin


He has pretty high energy level and wants lots of attention. I try to take him everywhere I go and get him out most all day, but in the evenings it has been a bit trying. He is getting much better.

Scott, did you ever have any problems like that at your place? I did see you had the super duty fence.. thumbup Maybe having Chaos around for friendship helped.







Edited by cjdavis618 (09/02/12 11:59 PM)
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#2282652 - 09/03/12 10:47 AM Re: The actual Decoy dog training of a dog. [Re: cjdavis618]
gonzaga Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 4357
Loc: Raton, NM U.S.A.
Try taking him for walks, no leash attached. As he explores and marks the territory pull out a hand call. Start with just a few quick blasts and check his reaction. If he runs back to you stop! Wait until he takes off again and then do it again, he will soon realize that there are no coyotes around the corner and he may actually start to range better.

This is the technique that I used when I trained Tug. As a puppy he soon learned to range out while I was calling. I did this in my backyard, which is completely fenced in as well. I threw my GSP in the mix as well so he had something to chase. Maybe have your wife walking out there in the field will help.
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#2282729 - 09/03/12 12:38 PM Re: The actual Decoy dog training of a dog. [Re: cjdavis618]
cjdavis618 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 1001
Loc: Beebe AR
Thanks for the tip Gonzaga.

He was at it again this morning. I put him in the kennel last night and this morning he ripped through the fence on the door and he was setting on the porch in the shade. He found the weak spot at the corner of the door and just powered his way through. unsure

So we are about to re-arrange things around here and move him closer to the house. I want to put in one of the wired in ground fence systems (For stubborn Dogs) and set up some boundaries, but I am afraid he will break through all of that just like the physical fence. Have any of you guys used that successfully with a strong willed dog? I can't have him running around free without boundaries because our land butts up to a railroad track and the city doesn't allow dogs to roam. They get picked up and put down pretty quick. Plus, it is a special case that I have him here anyway. So I don't need them to have any extra reasons to come by to visit.




Edited by cjdavis618 (09/03/12 12:53 PM)
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#2282815 - 09/03/12 03:37 PM Re: The actual Decoy dog training of a dog. [Re: cjdavis618]
trapper2 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 2182
Loc: north central okla
cj, you look at atwoods or tactor supply or a place like that, but they make some nice welded wire 10x10 pens and sell, mine are chain link but like you said they have found weak spots, i have got mine in good shape now but it took alot of sewing with baling wire to get it done, the welded wire is alot better pen, i think jeff has one of those in the ground deals, i just dont trust one, i know of one dog that was getting out of one when it rained and killing sheep, after that i dont trust them
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#2282822 - 09/03/12 03:45 PM Re: The actual Decoy dog training of a dog. [Re: trapper2]
btech29 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 01/17/11
Posts: 1461
Loc: NW Arkansas
Chris, I do have one of the inground systems. I have one of the dumbest Labs you will ever meet. It works perfect at keeping him in. He wont go near it. I have a pipe fence around my yard and I just ran it around it. Ive never tried it on the hunting dogs though. I dont want them to be afraid of crossing fences. It may not bother them but Im afraid to try it. I had one of the more expensive brands and the collar broke. I got one at Wally World and it works great too.
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You can tell a lot about a man by watching him cross a fence.

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#2282834 - 09/03/12 04:01 PM Re: The actual Decoy dog training of a dog. + dog containment for home. [Re: cjdavis618]
cjdavis618 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 1001
Loc: Beebe AR
At this point my yard isn't completely fenced. I do have a pen for my other dogs that is about 110'x60' and that is their Dog Run. They are to Malamute/Shepard mix. They don't try to get out or anything even though they could easily do it. That area has been there since they couldn't see and that is their universe.

I thought about putting him in there with them, but I also don't want them learning his bad habits because that fence isn't really that strong. Although, he may just be getting out to go visit them. He can see them from his location.
I plan on fencing the entire yard in at the end of the year really just to keep everybody else's animals out. We have a few neighbor dogs that come through our yard to go home and that could be part of the problem also.

I may try the wired dog fence and see what happens. I would load him in the truck before we leave the yard, so he can associate that with passage out of his boundary. I could also do that with the ranger when I leave the yard for the back 40. That would at least introduce some repetition with the leaving of the yard and future field fence.

I guess this thread is now really off topic, but that is my fault. I will rename it to cover both issues.


Edited by cjdavis618 (09/03/12 04:02 PM)
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#2282877 - 09/03/12 05:12 PM Re: The actual Decoy dog training of a dog. + dog containment for home. [Re: cjdavis618]
sittinpretty Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 132
Loc: mid-ohio
I have a wireless fence for my pitbull. All it takes is a couple times. Now he doesn't even wear the collar no more. Ive had good luck with them

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#2282921 - 09/03/12 06:22 PM Re: The actual Decoy dog training of a dog. [Re: cjdavis618]
yfzduner450 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 1584
Loc: West Jordan, Utah
For a dog that continues to get out of a kennel I would put him on a chain. I would put a stake in the middle of his kennel and give him enough chain to touch all sides but not long enough for him to get hung trying to get out. It would be the quickest and easiest solution until you can build a escape proof kennel.
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#2282942 - 09/03/12 06:38 PM Re: The actual Decoy dog training of a dog. [Re: yfzduner450]
DoubleCK Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 3479
Loc: Wauneta, NE / Gold Canyon, AZ
Originally Posted By: yfzduner450
For a dog that continues to get out of a kennel I would put him on a chain. I would put a stake in the middle of his kennel and give him enough chain to touch all sides but not long enough for him to get hung trying to get out. It would be the quickest and easiest solution until you can build a escape proof kennel.


Good idea, makes a quick fix. Keeps the dog safe. Too easy for a good one to get crunched by a passing auto. I have had them run over and I have run over one for a neighbor. Those accidents are a bad deal for all parties!

Tucker is convinced the "Invisible Lightening Monster" must live right over there by that pole fence along the county road here.
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