Decoy dogs in the east

roode301

New member
Have any of you guys used them over here. If so what breed and when and where. The guys around here all run hounds and I don't think it will work but I may be wrong.Most of my hunting is at night but I was thinking. I think it will have to be a small breed because the coyotes are pritty skitsh around he with the houndsmen. I am open to any input or know how. Thanks Steve
 
I have a mt. Cur in ky. And it works well for me. We cannot hunt at night.
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Takes a helluva dog to do you any good at night, the coyote would have to be upwind everytime so he could smell it, I would think.
 
I have had times where I wish I had a dog for recovery at night in Texas though. Not for decoy work. No reason the same dog couldn't do it if it had a good nose.
 
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There are guys back east using dogs at night with fair success.You just need to find the right dog. it is a rare dog that can get it done, but they are around.
 
Find the right coyotes at the right time of year, and you'll have action!
I do feel it would be wise to consider if you have houndsmen in your are running the coyotes with trailhounds. That tends to make them not want to engage a dog, especially in the daytime, IMHO. These guys use trailhounds, not sighthounds where a coyote can duck for cover and lose them. So the races are long and the coyotes tend to not forget the negative association with a dog in their vicinity.
I had some guys start running in my calling area last year, and the coyotes reaction to my dog on stand went to complete chit. Called in about a dozen coyotes in the day (thats ALOT for here) and every dang one I saw turned inside out soon as the dog took a single step toward them. Not blaming the houndsmen, I have friends who run and can appreciate the sport, just sharing how it is in my area now. Still hope I can get a few to play this year!

I've also taken my cur at night a few times when he was a pup, but it has gotten hairy, VERY quick. I could not reasonably control the situation alone with dog, ecollar remote, light, gun & caller at the same time. And after the dog got in the woods with a bunch of coyotes, things got crazy. I've actually had to go running into the woods to scare off a pack of coyotes that had my pup bayed up & surrounded. I chit you not. "Toning" back doesn't work if your dog is bayed up!

Now that he's fully mature, I have alot more confidence in him handling himself, but the thought of 3-6 40+ lb. coyotes against a 48 lb. cur is still not good odds. Guys out west running 45-90 lb. dogs on 20-25 lb. coyotes might not fully appreciate the gravity of that potential situation.

I reckon your Ohio coyotes might get pretty big, too, so if ya do try it, BE CAREFUL.
Our coyotes here are larger & more pack oriented, so when the action heats up, your dog will be dealing with a much more formidable adversary! And too gritty a dog will wind up in the hole you'll have to dig to put what's left of him. I hunt for FUN, so I err on the side of caution with my dog.

Here's a body size comparison of my cur to an adult male he decoyed in PA last August:
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you can see the same correlation to 1758's photos above of his KY coyotes!

That's my $.02, and prolly ain't worth 1/2 that on the street
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good luck & have fun!
 
I use Gunner and/or a couple of my other dogs at night. You can get some serious decoying action in the dark. Coyotes are alot more bold, chase and yell at the dog at night, moreso than during the day. That being said, it takes a confident dog to handle coyotes in the darkness. Recovery work at night....you can't beat a dog. We lost 8 out of 12 coyotes one night, just do to not being able to find them with the flashlight. That was before I had a dog. Now....if they are leaking, they will be found. Even bayed up a couple dozen that had no hole in them.

Hope that helps...

Tony
 
Originally Posted By: roode301Thanks for all the help and info guys.What would a started dog from you guys that train and breed cost in a round about number.

To be honest, the money isn't much for what you get. The ability to hunt with a good partner and have him always there to increase your odds are priceless.

Trust me, I have spent way more money on less useful things.
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I should have started with the dogs...
 
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Tony, with all due respect, it's gonna take more than confidence for a dog to handle themself at night back this way.
For comparative purposes, here's an adult male SW desert coyote:
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And here's an adult male eastern coyote, fully double the body weight of a desert coyote.
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You could ask any coon hunter around here in NY/PA about having their 80+lb. coon hounds run back to the truck after dark by a pack of coyotes. And these are big, gritty dogs gettin' spooked!
To think that a single ~50lb. decoy dog can 'handle' that type of adversary is asking for a large vet bill, or a shovel to dig the hole.
And to reference that a single dog would actually bay/catch a coyote alone at night in the desert might be a stretch, but if you say so? But to think that would happen here with our coyotes is absolutely ludicris! Any houndsman runnin' coyotes here will tell you same.

The fact that a single dog can/does catch your desert coyotes is testament to the fact of how easy they must be for a dog to handle. Not only in their 50% smaller size, but their overall willingness to interact with a dog. Maybe they just don't see dogs as a threat? Don't know & not making a slight against any of your dogs, just making an honest deductive assessment.
And here's how I come to that conclusion:

A single dog can catch multiple coyotes in a single night in the SW desert.

Houndsmen here in the NE use a pack of working bred 50-90 lb. trailhounds to catch a single coyote here! And even that feat takes several hours and many, many miles!!!

IF we are to believe what you say about a single dog catching coyotes on its own at night, that just goes toward proving how vastly different our respective coyotes really are. Cuz there ain't no way that is gonna happen up this way with these big coyotes.

I feel that a decoy dog here at night would be more fighting for its life than it would trying to decoy/bay/catch one.

We do have some 20 lb. dogs running around here at night though. They're called fox...
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I totally agree that the coyotes back East are much, much larger than the ones in the SW. Heck, I've had my share of coon hounds run back to the house, including myself, after being chased by coyotes, growing up in Illinois.
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When I say "confident dog", I don't mean one that is a balls-to-the-wall killer. I'm talking about one that has the confidence to engage, yet the experience to know how to sidestep and work coyotes. I've watched upwards to 6 coyotes chase the dog as a group at night. Twice, I've watched a group of 8 during the day. Guess what I'm trying to say is brains need to equal the confidence.

Watch tonight's show and you'll see Gunner with his hands full on a "not average" sized SW coyote.

Tony
 
knockemdown-I would say Tony is probably confusing his dog catchin coyotes, with coyotes catchin his dog. It would be a very rare dog, of ANY kind, that would be catching coyotes that dont want to be caught, at night solo.
Even a big stag can be run back to the truck if they get a pack of coyotes after em. They may ruin one or two, but in the end, the coyotes will win that war...Out West or back East. There are big coyotes in both places, but it doesnt take big coyotes to whip dogs off...I have seen lots of dogs that "should" be able to handle one, not be up to the task. Truth is, most trail hounds wont actually kill a coyote themselves, and most decoy dogs only get tough after the sound of the gun. Neither is bred with killing as the priority, IMO.

Take care.
 
Not confused at all Doc.
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Again, watch tonight's episode of my show. First scene...Gunner catches a missed coyote at the PM hunt this year. His son and my Dixie dog catch up with them and they get it killed. Last scene....the most exciting coyote decoy dog action caught on film.

The nighttime catching and baying solo...been there quite a few times with clients. Sometimes within 200 yards, sometimes a mile. Either way, it's definitely happened.

Again, not confused or talking out my arse.
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Tony
 
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