Originally Posted By: BubbaChickenDM. you are missing the entire point I am attempting to make here. Instead of getting all ridiculous about it, take a look before you start pissing on fireplugs here.
Not so much!!
First, not all rifles are able to print single hole groups at all ranges, because SOME OF THEM are not freefloated or have crappy triggers, or never WILL be accurate with certain bullet designs or lengths, or loads. Sure we can fix those, but that is my point, get rid of those variables.
Really never knew that... Triggers have nothing to do with how accurate a rifle is. They help the shooter not the rifle. How are you going to know if your rifle likes a bullet until you shoot it???? IYO that's wasting money....
Second, if your rifle IS one of the above that needs physical work, a rest (even a CHEAP one, I never advocated an expensive ANYTHING in my post) and attention to elimination of mechanical problems that exist even in factory new rifles will address those issues, BEFORE you send $200 downrange in ammo. DM, maybe you just got lucky on every rifle you have gotten and they all shoot perfectly with every load you have tried, congrats, you should be playing the lottery, or you are not being entirely candid. By the way, YOU are using more rest than I was suggesting too!
Nope my Creedmoor gave me some fits but I think I got it going now. Plus I don't play the lotto as I would rather "waste" my money down range! Huh... that's strange I'm "wasting" my money downrange but at the same time giving me trigger time...I see no waste here.
So what type of rest do you use while doing load development??? Remember this is a question on the type of rest for load development not hunting?????
Third, I said nothing about all trigger time being a waste of time AFTER THE VARIABLES ARE HANDLED, I said that until you know what the variables are doing, the time on the trigger is wasted, primarily because until those variables are handled, or at least noted, you don't know it is NOT you, it is the crappy job the manufacturer did in creating the rifle. If you change anything with the rifle, you often also change what it does downrange, but it takes some changing of the rifle to see that, of course.
So it's just a waste up until you handle the variables??? So all those (myself included) that say a 22LR is a great trainer are full of $hit. I mean we all know how accurate the bulk 22 ammo is.
Again trigger time is never a waste! plain and simple, if you know your groups suck use that time to work on your form!
Don't get upset because I called out politics, I am making a simple comparison, and it does not take a slide rule to figure out if a rifle is printing well, once you have it held solidly. It takes a few (a VERY few) shots, then you shoot on sticks or whatever from there, knowing what the rifle CAN do when unafflicted by YOU. At least you have some idea of whether you are making mistakes or if there is something else amiss, that is all I am attempting to say. The OP was clear, and I thought I was plenty clear, but maybe I was not as clear as you needed somehow. I don't know of a more basic way to state it.
A rifle will ALWAYS be affected by the shooter! SO yeah your clear as glass that you have no idea what your talking about!
I don't get upset when bring in politics into the thread. Just rather annoying that people now days always have to bring the $hit like it's a insult or something????
Dm, also what size target are they shooting, what kind of rifle, with what modifications and special tuning, and what sort of field conditions are they having for those shots at over a mile as you stated? I think you need some field time too. I know they are not hitting those ten inch targets with tight groups of one-hole or cloverleaf status with factory rifles that have not been modified, as you are intimating. They also got rid of all the variables they could, just as I said. However, some of them ARE using a slide rule!
I wish I could give you a strait answer on that one but the truth is everything from stock to full blown "customs". I get plenty of field time as I'm sure I shoot 3 times more then you do in a week. They are also not trying to shoot one hole groups at that distance because at that distance it's more on the shooter! Again it shows you missed the point by a mile! That was stated for the plain and simple fact that guys can shoot at that long of a distance and hit a target but yet some think that you need a fancy rest to shoot at 100 yards! Which leads me to think that you yourself have never shot at what maybe 500 yards??
eople sure like to make things into a whole lot more than they are. If you're worried about shooter error, pay more attention to technique....Ackman, Not trying to change your opinion or mind, but in answer to the original question,
