300 AAC Blackout
- Thread starter UncleDoc
- Start date
I don't have any first hand experience, but looking for more punch from my AR I looked at alot of ballistics. The 300blk would be the ticket if you wanted a closer range rifle to run suppressed, as alot of the BLK loads will be subsonic and therefore very quiet through a suppressor. Since I live in Iowa, no suppressors for me. I found the ballistics of the 6.8spcII to be far superior for my purposes, but that all depends on how you hunt. I wanted a fairly flat shooting rifle in AR platform for 350yds or less, but also be able to knock down deer/hogs/whatever medium game. 6x45 is lacking in velocity due to limited case capacity, 300blk is too slow as well, 6.5 needs a longer barrel to match the 6.8 velocities to about 300yds... I wanted a 16in hunting rifle, the 6.8 is the ticket IMO if you want a shorter barrel.
Disclaimer - I'm not badmouthing any of the other rounds I mentioned, they are all great rounds for their intended purposes I just found the 68 to be the perfect one for my intended use.
Disclaimer - I'm not badmouthing any of the other rounds I mentioned, they are all great rounds for their intended purposes I just found the 68 to be the perfect one for my intended use.
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: UncleDocAnyone have any experience (good or bad) with this cartridge? Looking at changing out one of my uppers and don't know a lot about it. Heard that it pretty much duplicates the 7.62x39 round if you load it properly. Any feedback will be appreciated.
It does not - it was designed to shoot very heavy bullets at ~1,050 fps with 6 to 8 grains of powder.
You can shoot lighter bullets faster, but they will never keep up with the 7.62x39.
It is a special purpose cartridge.
It does not - it was designed to shoot very heavy bullets at ~1,050 fps with 6 to 8 grains of powder.
You can shoot lighter bullets faster, but they will never keep up with the 7.62x39.
It is a special purpose cartridge.
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: UncleDocIf it is not on par with the 7.62x39 as far as velocity and terminal ballistics, is the appeal accuracy, feeding, suppressor use, or what. I know there are uppers available for the 7.62x39 but I think there have been feeding problems, or so I have heard.
If you are not going to use it with a suppressor, then it is a waste of time and money.
If you are not going to use it with a suppressor, then it is a waste of time and money.
Originally Posted By: CatShooterIt does not - it was designed to shoot very heavy bullets at ~1,050 fps with 6 to 8 grains of powder.
You can shoot lighter bullets faster, but they will never keep up with the 7.62x39.
It is a special purpose cartridge.
It is a general purpose cartridge like 30-30 or 7.62x39mm, except it is designed to work in AR15 magazines that hold 30 rounds of 5.56mm. There is no 7.62x39mm cartridge which exceeds the energy of 300 BLK past about 120 yards. So it not only keeps up with 7.62x39, but it passes it down range.
You can shoot lighter bullets faster, but they will never keep up with the 7.62x39.
It is a special purpose cartridge.
It is a general purpose cartridge like 30-30 or 7.62x39mm, except it is designed to work in AR15 magazines that hold 30 rounds of 5.56mm. There is no 7.62x39mm cartridge which exceeds the energy of 300 BLK past about 120 yards. So it not only keeps up with 7.62x39, but it passes it down range.
Originally Posted By: CatShooterIf you are not going to use it with a suppressor, then it is a waste of time and money.
Basically it is for someone who wants their AR to shoot 30 caliber.
It no more needs a suppressor than 7.62x39mm or 30-30. And the ammunition costs less than 30-30.
There is lots of information here:
http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/
and
https://www.facebook.com/300aacblackout
Basically it is for someone who wants their AR to shoot 30 caliber.
It no more needs a suppressor than 7.62x39mm or 30-30. And the ammunition costs less than 30-30.
There is lots of information here:
http://www.300blktalk.com/forum/
and
https://www.facebook.com/300aacblackout
Ammunition is $10.36 per box:
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/2AACO102860-1.html
There is also remanufactured ammunition for $8.50 per box.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/2AACO102860-1.html
There is also remanufactured ammunition for $8.50 per box.
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: rsilversOriginally Posted By: CatShooterIt does not - it was designed to shoot very heavy bullets at ~1,050 fps with 6 to 8 grains of powder.
You can shoot lighter bullets faster, but they will never keep up with the 7.62x39.
It is a special purpose cartridge.
It is a general purpose cartridge like 30-30 or 7.62x39mm, except it is designed to work in AR15 magazines that hold 30 rounds of 5.56mm. There is no 7.62x39mm cartridge which exceeds the energy of 300 BLK past about 120 yards. So it not only keeps up with 7.62x39, but it passes it down range.
Not hardly... no cartridge that shoots a 220gr bullet at 1050 fps can be called a general purpose cartridge.
And why shoot a 300 Blk with 125 gr bullets at $1.20 each, when 7.62x39 is practically free.
With a muzzle velocity of 1050, there is no down range for it to pass anything. Scopes will run out of elevation before the bullet gets 200 yds.
The cartridge for the AR family that is "general purpose" is the 6.8 SPC, which is quickly dying an un-natural death.
.
You can shoot lighter bullets faster, but they will never keep up with the 7.62x39.
It is a special purpose cartridge.
It is a general purpose cartridge like 30-30 or 7.62x39mm, except it is designed to work in AR15 magazines that hold 30 rounds of 5.56mm. There is no 7.62x39mm cartridge which exceeds the energy of 300 BLK past about 120 yards. So it not only keeps up with 7.62x39, but it passes it down range.
Not hardly... no cartridge that shoots a 220gr bullet at 1050 fps can be called a general purpose cartridge.
And why shoot a 300 Blk with 125 gr bullets at $1.20 each, when 7.62x39 is practically free.
With a muzzle velocity of 1050, there is no down range for it to pass anything. Scopes will run out of elevation before the bullet gets 200 yds.
The cartridge for the AR family that is "general purpose" is the 6.8 SPC, which is quickly dying an un-natural death.
.
Jack Roberts
Moderator - Deceased
"It is a general purpose cartridge like 30-30 or 7.62x39mm, except it is designed to work in AR15 magazines that hold 30 rounds of 5.56mm. There is no 7.62x39mm cartridge which exceeds the energy of 300 BLK past about 120 yards. So it not only keeps up with 7.62x39, but it passes it down range."
I would like to know what ballistics program you use. It is definitely seriously faulty. I sure don't want to use it.
Jack
I would like to know what ballistics program you use. It is definitely seriously faulty. I sure don't want to use it.
Jack
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: UncleDocPlease explain the un-natural death. I have friends who shoot the 6.8 but I have no experience with it. Just curious
I have friends that shoot cartridges that haven't had rifles available for over 50 years - the fact that you have friends that shoot the 6.8 SPC (aka, the .270 "Small Piss-ant Cartridge"), does not mean it is a thriving cartridge.
When Remington introduced the 6.8 SPC, they based it on a case (the 30 Remington auto-loader) that had been obsolete for 60 years
and then they promoted the h*ll out of it - it was to fill a niche' that didn't exist.
Now they don't make any firearms in 6.8 SPC, and haven't for some time - that is the death knell for a cartridge that has no other attributes to make it desirable.
Sales of the 6.8 SPC are abysmal!!
The other downside of the 6.8 SPC is that it is an odd case head size, so if you want to re-barrel a SPC, you also have to re-bolt it
.
I have friends that shoot cartridges that haven't had rifles available for over 50 years - the fact that you have friends that shoot the 6.8 SPC (aka, the .270 "Small Piss-ant Cartridge"), does not mean it is a thriving cartridge.
When Remington introduced the 6.8 SPC, they based it on a case (the 30 Remington auto-loader) that had been obsolete for 60 years
Now they don't make any firearms in 6.8 SPC, and haven't for some time - that is the death knell for a cartridge that has no other attributes to make it desirable.
Sales of the 6.8 SPC are abysmal!!
The other downside of the 6.8 SPC is that it is an odd case head size, so if you want to re-barrel a SPC, you also have to re-bolt it
.
Originally Posted By: CatShooter[Not hardly... no cartridge that shoots a 220gr bullet at 1050 fps can be called a general purpose cartridge.
Not sure why you are referencing the 220 grain round. That is a special purpose loading.
http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-sho...00-aac-blackout
Not sure why you are referencing the 220 grain round. That is a special purpose loading.
http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-sho...00-aac-blackout
Originally Posted By: Jack Roberts"It is a general purpose cartridge like 30-30 or 7.62x39mm, except it is designed to work in AR15 magazines that hold 30 rounds of 5.56mm. There is no 7.62x39mm cartridge which exceeds the energy of 300 BLK past about 120 yards. So it not only keeps up with 7.62x39, but it passes it down range."
I would like to know what ballistics program you use. It is definitely seriously faulty. I sure don't want to use it.
Jack
JBM. When people incorrectly believe that 7.62x39mm has better long range ballistics it is generally because they use the velocity of 7.62x39mm from a 20 inch barrel and compare that to 300 BLK from a shorter barrel.
Here you go:
http://www.300aacblackout.com/resources/300-BLK.pdf
I would like to know what ballistics program you use. It is definitely seriously faulty. I sure don't want to use it.
Jack
JBM. When people incorrectly believe that 7.62x39mm has better long range ballistics it is generally because they use the velocity of 7.62x39mm from a 20 inch barrel and compare that to 300 BLK from a shorter barrel.
Here you go:
http://www.300aacblackout.com/resources/300-BLK.pdf
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: rsilversOriginally Posted By: CatShooter[Not hardly... no cartridge that shoots a 220gr bullet at 1050 fps can be called a general purpose cartridge.
Not sure why you are referencing the 220 grain round. That is a special purpose loading.
http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-sho...00-aac-blackout
You are kidding - right?? Outdoor life - there's a real source for you.
The whole purpose of the 300 BLK is subsonic - it is a variation on the 300 whisper, to get around the SSK copyrights - and why do you think they call it "whisper" - no one needed another dippy 30 calibre round with a 110 or 125 grain bullet.
If a 30 calibre, light bullet, supersonic round was needed for the 15 frame, then necking up the 6.8 SPC would be a natural alternative and would perform far better than the tiny little 300 BLK case.
You run into real problems when trying to make arguments about something you don't really know about, and then trying to cherry pick garbage from the internet to "win" your argument
.
You wind up shooting yourself in the foot.
Not sure why you are referencing the 220 grain round. That is a special purpose loading.
http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-sho...00-aac-blackout
You are kidding - right?? Outdoor life - there's a real source for you.
The whole purpose of the 300 BLK is subsonic - it is a variation on the 300 whisper, to get around the SSK copyrights - and why do you think they call it "whisper" - no one needed another dippy 30 calibre round with a 110 or 125 grain bullet.
If a 30 calibre, light bullet, supersonic round was needed for the 15 frame, then necking up the 6.8 SPC would be a natural alternative and would perform far better than the tiny little 300 BLK case.
You run into real problems when trying to make arguments about something you don't really know about, and then trying to cherry pick garbage from the internet to "win" your argument
You wind up shooting yourself in the foot.
Last edited:
buckthumper
New member
Here you go,
300 AAC Blackout Chambering Cancelled:
Some time ago, Savage announced it would be chambering the Model 10 Precision Carbine in 300 AAC Blackout. Since that time, we have tested many variants of this cartridge in various barrel lengths and rates of twist. This exhaustive testing left us quite unsatisfied with the accuracy we were able to get from the subsonic loads in this chambering. Accuracy with the lighter, faster loads in this caliber was actually quite good. But we believe the real value in this cartridge lies in the use of subsonic loads for suppressed rifles. Therefore we have decided to scrap the project.
It is our understanding that pushing these heavy, slow bullets presents challenges not found in typical loadings and that our experience is not unique. Subsequently, many in the industry have simply adopted a lower standard for accuracy for these subsonic loads. While this does seem reasonable and we don't criticize any in our industry that have taken this approach, it just won't work for Savage.
Our brand was built on accuracy and we are too protective of our reputation for building the most accurate factory rifles available. We would rather walk away from this opportunity than sell a product that requires an explanation.
300 AAC Blackout Chambering Cancelled:
Some time ago, Savage announced it would be chambering the Model 10 Precision Carbine in 300 AAC Blackout. Since that time, we have tested many variants of this cartridge in various barrel lengths and rates of twist. This exhaustive testing left us quite unsatisfied with the accuracy we were able to get from the subsonic loads in this chambering. Accuracy with the lighter, faster loads in this caliber was actually quite good. But we believe the real value in this cartridge lies in the use of subsonic loads for suppressed rifles. Therefore we have decided to scrap the project.
It is our understanding that pushing these heavy, slow bullets presents challenges not found in typical loadings and that our experience is not unique. Subsequently, many in the industry have simply adopted a lower standard for accuracy for these subsonic loads. While this does seem reasonable and we don't criticize any in our industry that have taken this approach, it just won't work for Savage.
Our brand was built on accuracy and we are too protective of our reputation for building the most accurate factory rifles available. We would rather walk away from this opportunity than sell a product that requires an explanation.
CCP
New member
I wanted a versatile cartridge to shoot light weight supersonic and heavy supersonic/subsonic bullets out of the AR platform for hunting and knocking over bowling pins. The 300/221 fit that perfectly for me. Very low recoil to where you can see your shot impacts. 110g through 130gr bullets perfect for coyotes through deer at the short ranges in the woods and way more accurate than the 30-30 lever and 7.62x39 with better bullets and nearly half the recoil. The 165gr bullet offering is a hog hunters dream with the AR platform and its reliability with extremely fast follow up shots if needed..
Now with the advent of the 300 blackout with SAAMI having to make your own brass is in the past. I assume they didn’t go with a 6.8 necked out to 30cal because the intent on the 300’s is efficiency in very short barrels from light bullets to heavy weight subsonic and low recoil.
There are some cartridges I don’t care for so I don’t buy them.
Now with the advent of the 300 blackout with SAAMI having to make your own brass is in the past. I assume they didn’t go with a 6.8 necked out to 30cal because the intent on the 300’s is efficiency in very short barrels from light bullets to heavy weight subsonic and low recoil.
There are some cartridges I don’t care for so I don’t buy them.
I have been loading/shooting various 300 Whispers for about 15 years... I shoot 240 grain SMK's over 9.1 grains of H110 to achieve 1050 FPS. My CZ 527 shoots MOA at 200 yards when I do my part.
Shoot fine with 125 grain Speer TNT's but I have never really come up with a load that I would recommend as I love shooting 240's subsonic with a supressor.
Shoot fine with 125 grain Speer TNT's but I have never really come up with a load that I would recommend as I love shooting 240's subsonic with a supressor.
CatShooter
New member
Originally Posted By: CCP
"I assume they didn’t go with a 6.8 necked out to 30cal because the intent on the 300’s is efficiency in very short barrels from light bullets to heavy weight subsonic and low recoil."
Not efficiency... people throw that word around but it means nothing - no one cares if you get 22 miles to the gallon in a 300 BLK or19 miles to the gallon in a 6.8x300 SPC - it is teeny pennies when we are talking powder.
The reason that they didn't go with the 6.8 SPC case is that it is too large (holds too much powder)...
If you need a case to perform to 55,000 Kpsia, and still have the bullet be at 1050 fps, they you MUST match the case to the requirements. If they used the 6.8 SPC case, they would have to had loaded it down to 20,000 Kpsia, and that is not enough pressure to function the gas system in the AR15-M16, M4 rifles.
For a cartridge to work well, it should be working at the upper limits of the system parameters.
.
"I assume they didn’t go with a 6.8 necked out to 30cal because the intent on the 300’s is efficiency in very short barrels from light bullets to heavy weight subsonic and low recoil."
Not efficiency... people throw that word around but it means nothing - no one cares if you get 22 miles to the gallon in a 300 BLK or19 miles to the gallon in a 6.8x300 SPC - it is teeny pennies when we are talking powder.
The reason that they didn't go with the 6.8 SPC case is that it is too large (holds too much powder)...
If you need a case to perform to 55,000 Kpsia, and still have the bullet be at 1050 fps, they you MUST match the case to the requirements. If they used the 6.8 SPC case, they would have to had loaded it down to 20,000 Kpsia, and that is not enough pressure to function the gas system in the AR15-M16, M4 rifles.
For a cartridge to work well, it should be working at the upper limits of the system parameters.
.