D760 & Barnes TSX

the impactzone

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don't know how much he weight was but it took 3 of us to get him in the truck
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the sheild was Thick but the Barnes Vor-Tex 80gr 243 made short work of it, 1/4 him up for my gator and then tossed the wrong shoulder in the pond before I remembered to recover the bullet
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Originally Posted By: the impactzonethe sheild was Thick but the Barnes Vor-Tex 80gr 243 made short work of it, 1/4 him up for my gator and then tossed the wrong shoulder in the pond before I remembered to recover the bullet

if the round was in the shoulder that you threw in your pond, that means that gaping hole was the entrance wound? I am trying to picture this... how did it manage that damage?
 

Nice going. I love Barnes TSX bullets. Would love to have a D760 too, but that is out of the question, for now anyway. It's only a dream in the forseeable future.

Question please.

Do you guys have any trajectory issues when using night vision? What I mean is, when shooting at different distances and bullet impact?

With my scope, sighted dead center at 60 yards with my Dtech 6x45, the bullet impact will be about 2.5" high at 125 yards, and about 2" low at 40. It's so critical that I have to sight in at a certain distance to be spot on.
 
the dead on @60 and 2.5 high at 125 sounds about right but the 2" low at 40 must be because of your scope over bore high, how high is your scope over bore? I know I missed a bobcat at about 25' cause I didn't hold over and put it righ between his legs.

I'm trying to learn proper distance reading useing the mill rectical, was working good till I ranged a coyote at 200 and he was 150, turned out to be a young dog only about 9" at the brest, then ranged one at 250 and it turned out to be 150 and a pup at that. tough to judge distance at night that why I like to have a feel for my stands during the day and range landmarks then return at night
 

Phil,

I'm not sure how high in inches the scope sits over the bore, but it's quite a bit.

I have the Gen 1 ATN Spartan 410 mounted on the 6x45. It works great at a bait site at a known distance where I have sighted in previously at the site. I use small IR lights at the bait site that provides all the illumination I need.

I kind-of had a feeling that my issue might be common to NV scopes due to them sitting so high over the bore. But, I wondered if it's just my Gen 1 scope or if it's common to all including Gen 3.


This will give you an idea of how the scope sits. My scope appears to sit a bit high compared to yours.

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I lucked up on this bobcat while calling. I estimated it to be about 50-60 yards, took the
shot and made good of it. But, the trajectory is just too steep for any real confidence other
than at known / sighted distances. I guess it's just the nature of the beast with NV.

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I also got this skunk that was out in the field, turning over cow patties. Again luck was
with me in that it was roughly 50-60 yards from me. I've been able to pull off some shots
when estimating the distance to the 50-60 yard range. I didn't hit this one good on the
first shot and had to pop him again, so I'm sure trajectory played a part in that.

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At 38 yards (measured) the bullet impact hit low as seen on the target. The bullet impact
just under the bull was after I corrected up. That seems to be a pretty steep curve, a lot
more than I would expect from a day-time scope.

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Maybe one of these days I can own a nice scope like yours. I'm sure it's the cat's meow and far above my Gen 1. For now, my main use is hunting coyotes at a bait site with the IR lights. Night vision is just plain fun, even if it's only Gen 1. You are right that it's tough to judge distance at night. Everything seems so much further away than it really is.

Sorry if I got off topic of your post. I was just hoping you or others might shed some light on the trajectory issue, if that's common to NV in general.



 
TNVC has a gen 2+ with a dot and 2.5x I have been looking at, its under 1800 I think it would be great on a 223 and a good entry level higher end NV. some don't like a dot but having shot one a good bit in my 3 gun days I found that if you use the top of the dot on a 2MOA dot as the POI at 100 yards then the bottom of the dot as POI at 200 yards works well

Your scope does seen to have a good 4" over the bore, I only have probs at ranges under 25 yards with mine
 

Thanks Phil. I would definitely like a higher end scope. The only problem I would have with the scope you mentioned is that it's only 2.5X. Did I read somewhere that a 4x may be available soon in that scope, if you know? As to a dot, I wouldn't mind that since I like dot reticles.


 
I have my two D-740 scopes sighted dead on at 50 yards my normal shot around these parts. I find them around 2" low at 25 yards and 1.5 " high at 75 yards after the bullet starts dropping normal. Judging range at night is a real trick I have hunted the same land for 20+ years so can guess the range real close just by memory. On the M845 scope I had the 1.5X model sold it and have the 2.5X now. I leave it at my Dads house he uses to kill pigs that come to close to the farm house at night. He has no problem dropping varmints/hogs at 100 yards with the setup even on dark nights. As far as the dot I like it no different than using a aimpoint sight simple/fast system just place dot on target pull trigger
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The M845 is about the best value in a gen 2 scope I have seen its very nice and solid with good gen 2 performace overall
 

Phantom223,

Thanks for the good information about the M845.

Seems the D-740 shares some of the same trajectory problems that my ATN does.

Does the M845 scope sit lower on the receiver than the D-740? I assume that scope does not have the trajectory problems that your D-740 and my ATN have?

You guys please educate me a bit if you don't mind. My experience with NV is limited to the Gen 1 ATN.

Have any of you tried the Pulsar N550? If so, how would it compare to the M845? Big difference or not that much?

With the M845, on dark nights, how well does it see for a Gen 2 when using an illuminator? I currently have a Luna laser illuminator and also the Eagle Tac T100C2. Would those illuminators light things up pretty good for the Gen 2 scope? At what range do you think the scope would be useful to with one of the illuminators I have? If there is a 4X scope available, that might be the one I would want since I like a bit more magnification. My ATN Gen 1 has 5X magnification, and even it is limited at night at longer distances of over 100 yards.

What would you consider to be the limitation of the M845?

One other thing, how covert might the M845 be? Would it see well on a night that has some ambient light, without the use of an illuminator? If using an illuminator or IR lights, would it work well with something on the order of a 940 nm which would be more covert, or would it require more light such as an 850 nm?

Thanks for your response and help. I don't claim to know much about NV, but I'm learning little by little and would like a better scope sometime down the road. I appreciate you guys giving some expertise on these topics.



 
First any scope day or night will have different POI depending on the range its sighted in at. The higher above the bore normally bigger the difference. That said even with the my 740 or M845 scope when sighted in at 50-75 yards you are only talking about a few inches on average on a pig or coyote it would be rare to miss them. On a small critter like a skunk at close range 15 yards or so I would lay the crossarrow or dot on its back to adjust for the low impact at point blank range. Next on the M845 mine makes a shootable image even on star light nights no IR needed around these parts. That said a IR really clears things up and makes a nicer image overall, but thats the same on my gen 3 740's IR makes any gen better on a dark night. Its funny you ask about the pulsar 550 vs the M845 as one of the land owners I hunt on bought a 550 pulsar last year after seeing my night vision gear. the day it arrived he called me and asked me to come over and check out his new 550. We tested it out behind his house rural farm land to be honest I was surpised it work pretty decent the digital NV I had seen in the past just sucked like 50 yard max range even with strong IR. The 550 looked good to us even at ranges to 100 yards. I went to the truck I pulled out my M845 it blew the doors off the pulsar 550 in the dark conditions much bigger FOV,better image, and clearer overall. That said he used the 550 all fall into spring killing pigs and it did a good job for him its just not as high performing as the M845. Like anything else the more you spend the higher performance you get heck I have used gen 1 myself at th etime it was all I could save for being in school/part time job I had a blast with that scope even though its max range with IR was like 75 yards.
 

Thanks Phantom,

Looks like I just need to do some serious saving for at least the M845 - if I can get it or similar in at least 4X.

I'm afraid to look through a good Gen 2 or 3 scope. I know it would ruin me and I'd be slobbering at the mouth with desire, and the only thing to cure it would be dollars.

For now, my Gen 1 Spartan will have to do. But I will say this, with the small IR lights I use at the bait site, it's so bright and easy to see that I don't need anything else. It's only when I'm away from the bait site and need to throw a beam of IR light any real distance that the Gen 1 won't cut it. Here is an example, but keep in mind that the scope sees much brighter than the camera records. As well, I have since adjusted the lights to shine up the hill more, covering a wider area than in this video. Shooting coyotes over bait with the IR lights and a Gen 1 scope is no problem at all. My bait site is 60 yards from the cabin.




 
6mm06, just to give you a comparison, I have an ATN Night Arrow 4x CGT gen. here is a pic of a couple stop signs @ 200 yards with no IR assistance

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it is a CGT gen which is supposed to be better than gen 2 but not as good as a gen 3. I suppose some would call it a hand picked gen 2. this is a $1600 scope

here is a pic of it mounted on my 24 inch Bushmaster varminter. you see it does have an IR light mounted on it, but I wasn't using it when I took that pic.

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That IR light appears to be the 450 mw ATN one, correct? That is the one that came with my Gen 1, but I sold it. I now have a laser illuminator and also the Eagle Tac I mentioned before. I think those would probably light the area much more for a scope like yours than they do for my Gen 1.

Your scope seems to sit fairly high off the bore also. Do you have trajectory issues like the ones I described earlier?

With the illuminator in use, does it help the scope considerably for a good, clear and bright view at distances, like 100 yards and over?

In the through-the-scope photo, was there a fair amount of ambient light that night?

 
as long as you know the trajectory of the round you just need to adjust your aim. at 25 yards, 2 inches is still a kill shot. I sighted it in at 60 yards and was able to 5 rounds in a single tattered hole with it. I am within 2 inches above or below my POA out to 175 yards so as long as I know that, it's fine. day or night scope makes no difference in the trajectory of your rifle if that's what you mean.

usually the illuminator is overkill for me. as long as I can distinguish my target, lighting it up with a flood light IR doesn't really make it easier to see and can wash it out at times. it really depends on the light conditions at the time.

in the photo I posted, there was little moon but it was clear with bright stars. this scope works great is brighter conditions but if clouds roll in, it can change fast. that is where the PVS-14 I have really shines.
 
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