Accurate, all round .223 load

60g Sierra Varminter (#1375) print small groups out of my 1/9 20" DPMS using Benchmark or Accurate 2230 and Rem. 7 1/2 primers.
50g V-Max shoots the smallest groups but the wind sure has a negative affect greater than 250 yards IME.
I recently started loading Nosler 60g BT from my newest .223, ok so far but hope they will do better with a little fine tuning.
Not sure but according to internet (lol) the Noslers have a heavier jacket?? I should go disect one of each Nosler and V-Max and see for myself.
 
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGA 20" barrel is even more reason to go with a lighter bullet to keep the velocity higher.
Velocity isn't everything, I think I'm running about 2900 and won't change anything because of the accuracy I get?
Lighter bullet =mor wind drift too. Yes flatter shooting but out to 400 I wouldn't worry about it
 
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sorry...missed the 1 in 9 in the first post. 9 twist loves almost everything...if you are new to reloading, you'll want to try a couple of different powders, bullets, primers and so on. every rifle usually has it's favorite load but there are "stand-by's" in 223... 50-60 is where I would start.
 
Originally Posted By: nastynatesfish
Lighter bullet =mor wind drift too. Yes flatter shooting but out to 400 I wouldn't worry about it
I wouldn't worry about the slightly more wind drift of a lighter bullet out to 400. The difference is minor.
 
I've put this up before.

Try 25.5 grains of H4895 with a Federal 205 behind a Nosler 55 grain BT or 55 grain V-Max, seated to AR mag length. This load is max. so work up. This load shoots well in every .223 I've tried it in (like 10). Be shure to use the Federal primer, as WW and others don't work as well for some reason. Tweak this load and it will outshoot you.

I prefer the Nosler, IMO it will stay together and exit out the back side. V-Max for prarie dogs, but will blow up inside a coyote or deer. Sierra 55's are somewhere in between and shoot well too.

Pour slowly to get it all in, as it fills the case and is a compressed load. Usually starts to shine at near maximum load. IMR-4895 will work just as well, just work up to maximum slowly in this small case.

It also runs close to the same velocity as 55 grain ball ammo.
 
Ok well thanks for the insight fellas. I think I will buy a couple different weight Noslers and Vmax and see how it goes. The Noslers are slightly more expensive but in the long run the price isn't anything compared to a bad shooting load...
 
I never said i have a problem putting bullets were i want them. Iv read about many people having splashing with v max with there thin jackets on marginal hits. Iv shot thousands of them and shot half as many animals with them without problems. The blitzkings and ballistic tips have a little thicker jacket. If you are hunting hogs id definetly go with a tougher bullet than a v max.
 
Originally Posted By: GCI've settled on a 60 gr. V-Max for the job you described. In my 1/9 twist RRA Coyote Carbine 16" barrel a load of TAC runs it comfortably over 2,800 fps and shoots just over ½” for five shots at 100 yards from the bench. Inexpensive enough to handload easily, runs the gun reliably, accurate, and the terminal performance at that velocity is decisive yet not excessively explosive. Essentially this is the Hornady Urban TAP loading. I’ve seen gel test results through four layers of denim into the ballistic medium that gave at least 12” of penetration. Street results have been positive in law enforcement shootings. Not the best for barrier penetration but that isn’t a job description that you specified and for an “all around” load it doesn’t seem too far off course for your needs.

My thoughts exactly. I was running them in a 20" AR & got 2995fps with Benchmark. Killed the snot out of everything I shot with it. By far a better "all around load" than many listed.
 
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOG
I wouldn't worry about the slightly more wind drift of a lighter bullet out to 400. The difference is minor.

In a 10 mph wind the 40gr is ~20.7" low & ~25.3" off in windage @ 400 yards (40vmax @ 3500fp- 20" velocity).

In a 10 mph wind the 40gr is ~24.5" low & ~21.9 off in windage @ 400 yards (60vmax @ 3000fps- 20" velocity).

So the 60 is 3.8" lower but 3.4" closer hold. With a range finder I can judge yardage a LOT better than I can wind. With either bullet your going to need a good range & good "dope" to connect that far. The wind is your enemy in the field. The flatter trajectory difference in whats minor. Of course I wouldn't be using either one if planning to shoot longer ranges.
 
Your numbers are way off... ??? Anyways you're talking about AT 400 yards, in the absolute worst case scenario of "out to 400 yards".

Realistically, he will never, or rarely ever shoot that far. Almost nobody target shoots past 200 yards, and that's a pretty long shot while hunting predators.

At 100 yards the difference is hardly measurable at 0.1".

At 200 yards:
40 Vmax drops 2.5" and drifts 5.5".
60 Vmax drops 3.5" and drifts 5.0".

At 300 yards:
40 Vmax drops 10.5" and drifts 13.5".
60 Vmax drops 13.5" and drifts 12.0".

At 400 yards:
40 Vmax drops 26.5" and drifts 26.5".
60 Vmax drops 32.5" and drifts 23.0".

You're much more likely to shoot high/low on a coyote in the field because you guessed the distance wrong, then you are to miss wide by 1/2" or 1.5" because of a 10 mph wind. Cut the wind to 2-5 mph and the drift difference is negligible.

No one typically has time to use a laser on a coyote anyways, and 200-300 yards is not a common shot. Using a 200-yard zero it gives an even greater advantage to the lighter faster flatter bullet, if you expect to have long shot opportunities.
 
Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOGYour numbers are way off... ??? Anyways you're talking about AT 400 yards, in the absolute worst case scenario of "out to 400 yards".

2" scope height (we are talking AR's), Alt-1000', zero'd at 200, BP-29.53, T-60 degrees, RH-78%, 40gr-vmax=.2BC @3500, 60=.265@3k ----- run your #'s again

Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOG Realistically, he will never, or rarely ever shoot that far. Almost nobody target shoots past 200 yards, and that's a pretty long shot while hunting predators.

So inside this range both bullets are within 1" of another, were is an advantage in trajectory?

Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOG You're much more likely to shoot high/low on a coyote in the field because you guessed the distance wrong, .
So by this same rational, we'll say a slower bullet is better because if you over judge how far the coyote is (you shoot over him with the 40gr)??? A bit farfetched huh, the real truth is Unless you get a somewhat accurate range, your going to miss no matter (get the point?).

Originally Posted By: DiRTY DOG No one typically has time to use a laser on a coyote anyways, and 200-300 yards is not a common shot. Using a 200-yard zero it gives an even greater advantage to the lighter faster flatter bullet, if you expect to have long shot opportunities.


Run your #'s again... The drop in trajectory difference is minimal. Your argument for "it's not that much difference" applys just the same. I'm just talking up & down & your talking side to side (the differences is almost identical until the higher BC catches up at greater ranges).



The reason I recomended the 60gr is because it's better "all around" (as the OP asked). If all he was doing was shooting crows & groundhogs inside 300 yards, the 40gr vmax would be better. The 60 will penetrate MUCH better for several reasons (if he runs into something that needs penetrating
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), and still do everything the 40 can do.


 
I am using IMR 8208 XBR behind a 40 gr Vmax with good results in my RRA coyote carbine.
I have a DPMS upper I am playing with now.
Both are 1:9 twist.
 
Originally Posted By: re1991Ok well thanks for the insight fellas. I think I will buy a couple different weight Noslers and Vmax and see how it goes. The Noslers are slightly more expensive but in the long run the price isn't anything compared to a bad shooting load...

You asked for a good "all around load in .223 / 5,56 well, I've got one for you so you might want to hold off on the Nosler, and VMax for just a bit.

I've shot this load with several different brands and different twist AR's. The beauty of this load is it doesn't seem to care what AR you shoot it out of, nor it doesn't seem to care about the twist rate.

For 5 years this is the only bullet / powder load I've reloaded. Seems kind of like maybe a "once in a lifetime load, because as I said it doesn't seem to care what AR you shoot it out of.

Get some Speer 50 gr. TNT varmit bullets. Another plus to this bullet is that Speer offers this bullet in a "value pack" of 1M.

I loaded it with Data 68, which was a surplus powder available several years ago. It hasn't been available for several years, but no worry, because we used the load data from Accurate Powders for either 2015, or 2230 IIRC. I'm sorry I can't remember which, but somebody on here will remember, as Data 68 was an extremely popular surplus powder, and it was only $60.00 for 8 lbs. back then.

Once someone on here can confirm which Accurate load data we used, buy a pound of that Accurate powder, and load up two separate loads, one at 24 grains, and the other at 24.2 grains, and see which one gives you the best group at 100 yds.

I've killed many a prairie dog @ 500 yds. with this load, and it is super accurate between 100-500 yards. I've shot it out of 1/9, 1/8, and 1/7 twists, and as I said it just doesn't seem to care about the twist, nor whether the barrel is CM, chrome lined, or whatever. I shoot this combo out of a 20" barrel almost exclusively.

Since this is the only bullet / powder combination I've used for PD's for 5 years, I've literally shot thousands, and thousands of this combination. (I always buy the value pack of 1M bullets. Speer product # 1430 IIRC. Of course they also sell that bullet in 100 packs too.

So figure about $25.00 dollars each for 100 bullets, and one pound of powder for a total of $50.00. If it performs for you like it does for me, that's chump change for a very good all around load.

I STRONGLY suggest you try this combo, and I want you to let me know how it performs for you. So let me know via IM, or post it in a thread. I believe you'll easily find it's worth the effort !!!!!!

Hangtime

 
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