I different brands of brass

nastynatesfish

nastynatesfish

Active member
So I bedded my remmy 700 7 mag on friday. I went out and set up snd statted shootimg, well being that it was 100° at 930 I called ot a day nefor I got to my 7. Well I get home and I was thinkimg, I was shooting my 22 250 and I have mostly winchester brass that I bought new but I also have some federal that I bought as loaded ammo just to compare and see what bullets it shot better. Im wondering, do you guys work different loads for different brands of brass? Ive got both for my 7mag also. I have differemt bullets loaded in the federal than the winchester to. But im wondering if you seperate headstamp?
 
Also ive noticed in my 250 that loaded the same charge with the same 55gr sp bullet the two will shoot different. Same group but it will shoot a little right and high with the federal. Why is that? Thicker brass and higher pressure? I dont know just 4am rambling I guess
 
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It's a possibility that any change at all during your reload process can change your point of impact. Then again I've loaded up mixed brass before and my groups stayed pretty much together,other components remained the same except the brass.
 
Originally Posted By: nastynatesfish Thivker brass amd higher pressure?


Yes,
thicker and heavier brass usually has a smaller case capacity, and that causes higher pressure with the same powder charge.
I don't know what powder you are shooting, but if it's temperature sensitive you could get a big increase in pressure in the smaller-capacity cases on a hot day like you have there in AZ.
 
Those are both good powders for the heat!
You can weigh the brass. The heavier brass will have a smaller capacity, and you're more than likely getting more velocity from the same powder charge. That would definitely change your point of impact.
If your bolt lift isn't tight, your primers aren't getting flat or cratered, and/or you aren't getting ejector marks, you're probably running less than a max load and don't have any pressure issues.
 
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Shooting for score, yes the brass makes a difference. Shooting for hunting purposes won't make a huge difference. Yes, I agree, shooting at those temperatures powder can become an issue. Here in Wisconsin it is rather mute point.
 
Ok so whats an average weight for brass to vary? Some will be off as much at .05-.10 grains and thats after a size and trim. I sshoit targets with all my rifles but its jyst for fun. I like to shootto 500 and want to start pushing to 800 or so
 
If you want to know how many cubic inches your engine is, do you weigh the block??

Weight CAN BE an indicator of volume, but only an indicator. There is NO ONE formula for making brass, so if you want to know the volume, then measure the volume; NOT the weight.

Separating by "headstamp" alone also isn't a science, consider this:

Separating brass that says "Winchester". WHO actually made it, and when? Winchester sold their brass cartridge making operations in 2007. How many people have made it since then? How many different "recipies" have been used to make it?
 
Originally Posted By: nastynatesfishAlso ive noticed in my 250 that loaded the same charge with the same 55gr sp bullet the two will shoot different. Same group but it will shoot a little right and high with the federal. Why is that? Thicker brass and higher pressure? I dont know just 4am rambling I guess

Nasty,
One of the most important factors in being consistent is "uniform neck tension" of the brass. That is a factor that is paramount to ultimate accuracy shooters. There is no advantage to "thicker" brass per se. The name of the game is to have all the necks have identical "neck tension" and release the bullet at the same rate. High pressures like that of a 22-250, is certainly an issue, but what is more important is to get all the casings to release that pressure the same, whether those necks were turned or not and measure the same thickness. Another important factor in the release is how "tight" those necks are in the chamber of the rifle. Those that maintain the same "tightest" and measure the same inside the chamber, are most likely to produce the best and tightest groups on your target. The rest is up to the shooter to have a repeatable regiment when he or she shoots.
 
Yes, I always seperate my brass by headstamp. Yes, I rework loads if changing brass headstamps. And, I also sort my brass by weight when I purchase multiple bags of brass at the same time unless it's Lapua brass--Lapua is amazingly consistent and costs so much I rarely can afford multiples of it anyway!
 
I like winchester in my magnum because of the life ice got out of it. Ive reloaded the same brass since 2006 along with remington and federal and just last november got rid of the last of it. I have no idea how many loads I ran through it, but I had200 pcs of each. The remington was the first to give me any case.head seperations after about 2and a half years.
 
I would expect neck splits (unless anealed) or loose primer pockets before head separations.

Separations usually mean a headspace problem (from die adjustment), in my experience.

Jim
 
Originally Posted By: JimOliverI would expect neck splits (unless anealed) or loose primer pockets before head separations.

Separations usually mean a headspace problem (from die adjustment), in my experience.

Jim

They are not related to each other.

1 - Split necks are from brass hardness and not annealing.

2 - Loose primer pockets are from excessive pressure.

3 - Head separations are from excessive headspace.

One of them does not necessarily happen before the others - they are independent problems, and not connected.
 
Originally Posted By: nastynatesfishAlso ive noticed in my 250 that loaded the same charge with the same 55gr sp bullet the two will shoot different. Same group but it will shoot a little right and high with the federal. Why is that? Thicker brass and higher pressure? I dont know just 4am rambling I guess


What is the difference in the point of impact? How much are we talking?
 
Originally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: JimOliverI would expect neck splits (unless anealed) or loose primer pockets before head separations.

Separations usually mean a headspace problem (from die adjustment), in my experience.

Jim

They are not related to each other.

1 - Split necks are from brass hardness and not annealing.

2 - Loose primer pockets are from excessive pressure.

3 - Head separations are from excessive headspace.

One of them does not necessarily happen before the others - they are independent problems, and not connected.

Exactly. Split necks are or can be, related to brass "wear" as are loose pockets; head separations are a procedural/technique/adjustment problem.

Jim
 
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Originally Posted By: JimOliverOriginally Posted By: CatShooterOriginally Posted By: JimOliverI would expect neck splits (unless anealed) or loose primer pockets before head separations.

Separations usually mean a headspace problem (from die adjustment), in my experience.

Jim

They are not related to each other.

1 - Split necks are from brass hardness and not annealing.

2 - Loose primer pockets are from excessive pressure.

3 - Head separations are from excessive headspace.

One of them does not necessarily happen before the others - they are independent problems, and not connected.

Exactly. Split necks are or can be, related to brass "wear" as are loose pockets; head separations are a procedural/technique/adjustment problem.

Jim

Huh?????????????

If you are going to quote me, at least understand what I said and then don't re-write what I said into a different meaning.

Brass does not "wear out", and loose pockets are not from the pockets "wearing out".

Split necks are from work-hardening of the neck, and loose primer pockets are from excessive pressure.

I would suggest you read up on the subject.

I have ~300 pieces of 22-250 that have been through 5 barrels, and each has been fired about 45 times, and none of it is "worn out".

 
Catshooter, just to be clear, I'm smiling as I type this
smile.gif


I have no wish to get into a contest with anyone about case life and those conditions that control it.
We both know what happens when a round is fired.....

As a case is loaded many times and is trimmed, the cases get thinner and thinner; eventually the case is no longer usable.

Primer pockets get loose, not from seating and removing primers, but from repeated hits from 60,000 psi. After a number of those hits, the pockets expand. An extream example is when someone over loads a case and the pocket expands with only one loading.

Call it "wear" or something else, but the life of cases is limited to a finite number of cycles.

If I have failed to understand your posts, please forgive me-----it's probably because I've only been loading for 40+ years.

Jim
 
Originally Posted By: JimOliverCatshooter, just to be clear, I'm smiling as I type this
smile.gif


I have no wish to get into a contest with anyone about case life and those conditions that control it.
We both know what happens when a round is fired.....

As a case is loaded many times and is trimmed, the cases get thinner and thinner; eventually the case is no longer usable.

Primer pockets get loose, not from seating and removing primers, but from repeated hits from 60,000 psi. After a number of those hits, the pockets expand. An extream example is when someone over loads a case and the pocket expands with only one loading.

Call it "wear" or something else, but the life of cases is limited to a finite number of cycles.

If I have failed to understand your posts, please forgive me-----it's probably because I've only been loading for 40+ years.

Jim


I have abused brass from time to time, but I have NEVER, ever worn out a piece of brass, and I was commercially manufacturing ammunition before you ever loaded a round.

In the years of 2009 and 2011, I loaded or supervised the loading of way over 10,000,000 rounds of ammunition. (it was a small shop)
 
Not much shift smoke. Its about 5//8 right and 1" higher. Thats why I was going to go either or with the brass.
Guys on brass wearing out
ive rin my 7mag brass through 3 barrels and to say its been loaded over 50 times is an understatement. I know my headspace on my current barrel is ove about .002, that was my fault cutting the chamber. I had seperation on the brass when I went to it but I alway neck size it after initial shooting. Or only when my bolt gets tighter than im comfortable with. Ive just recently just started bumping my shoulders enough to chamber smooth instead of giving a complete full length size
 
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