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#2228848 - 06/04/12 07:09 PM Muzzleloader considered a firearm?
Moe Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 1622
Loc: Essex County, Ontario
I've been searching endlessly with no luck.

There seems to be a grey area for muzzleloaders on export requirements. I'm looking at buying a new T/C muzzleloader .50 cal from the U.S. for hunting back home in Canada. Does anybody know what's required to do this? I live close to the U.S. border and buying a muzzleloader in Michigan will save me a few hundred dollars.

I've called the BIS (multiple divisions that take care of export documents for shotguns, rifles and handguns) but nobody seem to knew about muzzleloader requirements.

Does anybody know if a T/C Triumph bone collector muzzle loader is considered a "firearm" in Michigan? I've called cabelas and no paperwork or MI residency is required to purchase one. I just don't want to breaking any U.S. laws if it IS considered a "firearm".

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Kyle
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-Moe-

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#2228913 - 06/04/12 08:39 PM Re: Muzzleloader considered a firearm? [Re: Moe]
borkon Online
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 3347
Loc: minnesota
as i understand it:
a true muzzelgun is not considered a firearm. however, some muzzelguns can switch barrels to a cenerfire so there fore they are considered a firearm>.
not completly sure if i'm correct though??
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#2228973 - 06/04/12 09:53 PM Re: Muzzleloader considered a firearm? [Re: Moe]
BBK Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 05/08/12
Posts: 161
Loc: Iowa
Of course they are considered a firearm. [beeep] a BB gun is considered a firearm, but exempt from most regulations regarding transporting and selling. Now, you do not need to have a FFL to accept a muzzleloader, or the background check to buy one UNLESS IT IS A T/C WITH CONVERTIBLE BARRELS. You need to have a FFL to accept an encore.

If you are not a US resident then you can not purchase an encore in the states. You would have to have the shop in the US export it over to the shop in Canada, then buy it from there. The paper work and hassle would probably not make it worth it.

Just buy one in Canada and save the hassle.


Edited by BBK (06/04/12 09:56 PM)

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#2228980 - 06/04/12 09:59 PM Re: Muzzleloader considered a firearm? [Re: Moe]
catwhacker Offline
Cusom Call Maker

Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 5463
Loc: west michigan
I ordered one from Cabela's and I had to fill out paper work before they would send it to me. It says on there web site that Mi. residents should check state laws. Within the state I can walk in and buy one no questions asked.
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#2229042 - 06/04/12 11:03 PM Re: Muzzleloader considered a firearm? [Re: Moe]
NdIndy Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 3279
Loc: cheyenne wy
A bb gun is not a firearm. A muzzleloader isn't considered one by the ATF. If its a thompson or nef with a rifle action, it is a firearm to the ATF even if it has a black powder barrel on it now, the receiver/action is the firearm and the barrel s an accessory. Conversely if it's a bp action with a rifle barrel on it, it's probably shrapnel laugh

State law cn be more restrictive though.
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#2229116 - 06/05/12 06:25 AM Re: Muzzleloader considered a firearm? [Re: Moe]
Widow maker 223 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 3397
Loc: Northern IN
A bb gun is not a firearm, a potatoe gun is. Cant you find one in canada.

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#2229324 - 06/05/12 03:45 PM Re: Muzzleloader considered a firearm? [Re: Moe]
willy1947 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 11/20/11
Posts: 2083
Loc: Ohio, Ohio

Do you have gunshop up north or have they closed them all down. Go home and buy one, all they want is your tax money. Just move down to the states, you could even own a pistol. Them frogs have take your "Right to bear arms" away from you. I have hunted the north for 50 years. I feel for my brothers of the north. Heck you can get a CCW down here. There are still jobs here in Ohio and nice homes. "Come on down"
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#2229335 - 06/05/12 04:23 PM Re: Muzzleloader considered a firearm? [Re: Moe]
tnshootist Online
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 11/26/10
Posts: 4876
Loc: East Tn
I have been to Canada a couple of times.It is a nice place.But it is like another country up there.
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#2229353 - 06/05/12 04:56 PM Re: Muzzleloader considered a firearm? [Re: Moe]
NdIndy Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 3279
Loc: cheyenne wy
Agreed. No matter how loud or slow I talked all they would say was Je ne sais pas!

Bunch of weirdo's.
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#2229385 - 06/05/12 06:11 PM Re: Muzzleloader considered a firearm? [Re: Moe]
tnshootist Online
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 11/26/10
Posts: 4876
Loc: East Tn
I got lost in Montreal,stopped at a Purina place figuring they would talk to me.Asked the first girl I came to for directions,she called over another girl and said ask her.I did,and she called over more girls and said ask again.I finally figured out they was just wanting to hear this southern boy talk.
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"Money won't buy happiness, but you can suffer a better grade of misery in a nicer part of town." Brother Bill Samples

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#2229463 - 06/05/12 08:55 PM Re: Muzzleloader considered a firearm? [Re: NdIndy]
Moe Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 07/20/03
Posts: 1622
Loc: Essex County, Ontario
Originally Posted By: willy1947
Do you have gunshop up north or have they closed them all down. Go home and buy one, all they want is your tax money. Just move down to the states, you could even own a pistol. Them frogs have take your "Right to bear arms" away from you. I have hunted the north for 50 years. I feel for my brothers of the north. Heck you can get a CCW down here. There are still jobs here in Ohio and nice homes. "Come on down"

Yes there are gunshops my way and yes I could buy one here, but as said in my original post it would save me a couple hundred dollars buying in the U.S.. And I also already have all the proper licensing to own pistols up here as well. Thanks for the offer to "Come on down" though!

Originally Posted By: tnshootist
I have been to Canada a couple of times.It is a nice place.But it is like another country up there.

Well that's because it is...another...country... tt2

Originally Posted By: NdIndy
Agreed. No matter how loud or slow I talked all they would say was Je ne sais pas!

Bunch of weirdo's.

laugh I'm sure they thought the same about you. Heck they might have just been pretending to speak French wink

Thanks all for the replies and...Bonne journée! thumbup1
_________________________
-Moe-

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#2229538 - 06/05/12 10:35 PM Re: Muzzleloader considered a firearm? [Re: Moe]
BBK Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 05/08/12
Posts: 161
Loc: Iowa
If a muzzle loader is not a firearm, does that mean I can carry one on my shoulder while walking down the street?

If it fires a projectile out of a barrel it is considered a firearm. Doesnt have the same laws and regulations as a rifle, pistol, or shotgun would.. but it is still a firearm (AKA a muzzle loading GUN)

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#2229616 - 06/06/12 12:35 AM Re: Muzzleloader considered a firearm? [Re: BBK]
Jack Roberts Online
Admin/moderator

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 15815
Loc: Elko, NV formerly MD
It is not a firearm under federal laws, but many state laws even want to make slingshots "guns."

Jack
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"Yeah, to where the going's easier." Ben Bova

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#2229619 - 06/06/12 12:41 AM Re: Muzzleloader considered a firearm? [Re: Moe]
NdIndy Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 3279
Loc: cheyenne wy
Sooooooo, those bright green plastic guns at the dollars tore,that spit a plastic disc 10 feet are also firearms? To think all those years and all those little kids are actually felons.
_________________________
My therapist says I'm a bad kisser.

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#2229668 - 06/06/12 02:31 AM Re: Muzzleloader considered a firearm? [Re: Moe]
travjc Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/23/12
Posts: 359
Loc: SD
It's your country, buy there and let your tax money go to work for you. Thats what we do here, it ain't perfect, but it works.
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Life's hard, it's harder if you are stupid. The Duke
You've done nothing if you have bested a fool.

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