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#2212709 - 05/05/12 12:47 PM Can Doctors ask patients about guns?
hm1996 Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 07/23/06
Posts: 16535
Loc: S. Texas
Quote:
Fla. lawsuit: Can doctors ask patients about guns?

By CURT ANDERSON, Associated Press
July 13, 2011
MIAMI (AP) —

Doctors in Florida are fighting a first-of-its-kind law requiring them to have a legitimate safety concern before they start asking a patient about guns.

The physicians contend the new law is too broad and they should be free to ask patients and parents about firearms in the house to make sure people know how to keep them safely locked away. Doctors routinely offer similar advice about other household risks, from the dangers of tobacco use to swimming pools.

Gun rights supporters who pushed for the new law believe questions about gun ownership are an invasion of privacy, and say some people have been dropped by doctors simply because they refused to talk about firearms.

The law, signed by Republican Gov. Rick Scott, took effect June 2. It forbids doctors from inquiring about guns unless the information is "relevant to a patient's medical care or safety, or the safety of others."

Doctors' groups representing about 11,000 physicians in Florida immediately sued, calling on a federal judge to block the law. They say the law is already having a chilling effect on meaningful conversations about firearms with patients, which professional medical organizations have for years advocated as good practice. Many patient questionnaires ask about gun ownership.

"Making sure patients understand the risks around them is a critical part of a doctor's mission," Douglas Hallward-Driemeier, an attorney for the physicians' said Wednesday during a court hearing on the lawsuit.

U.S. District Judge Marcia Cooke didn't issue a ruling but asked skeptical questions of the doctors.

"What's relevant about asking about my gun when I came in with a cold?" said Cooke, a 2004 appointee of President George W. Bush. "Maybe it's the other way around. Maybe the questionnaire is overbroad and not the statute."

The judge noted the law allowed for exceptions. People with mental health problems, for example, could be asked about owning guns.

The Florida attorney general's office says doctors are misreading the law. They argue it protects patients from discrimination or harassment and reaffirms a patient's right to refuse to answer. It also prohibits doctors from dropping patients because they own a gun.

"It does not prohibit a conversation about firearms between doctors and their patients," said Jason Vail, an assistant state attorney general.

Doctors are worried about curious children finding weapons around the house. As recently as May, a 3-year-old South Carolina girl found the family's loaded handgun on a windowsill and shot herself to death.

"What if a family refuses to answer the question about guns and a kid gets killed?" said Dr. Lisa A. Cosgrove, a pediatrician in Merritt Island who added that she has a concealed weapons permit. "Who is responsible then? You tried your best to ask, but my heart is going to be crushed."

The issue found its way to the GOP-controlled Florida Legislature after what is known as the "Ocala incident" took place in 2010, according to the state's response to the lawsuit. In that instance, a young mother was dropped from a doctor's practice solely because she refused to answer questions about firearm ownership. Similar cases came to light as lawmakers debated the measure.

One legislator said he was told about "a mother who was separated from her children during an office visit while a pediatrician interrogated them" about guns, according to the state's filings.

Emotions were running so high during the debate the legislation initially included a possible five-year prison sentence and fines up to $5 million. The punishment was eventually scaled down to disciplinary action by the Florida Board of Medicine, including a loss of a doctor's medical license, and a possible $10,000 fine.

Doctors are worried any patient who takes offense to a gun-related question could haul them before the board.

"It's all in the eye of the beholder, whether it's harassment or not," said Hallward-Driemeier, the doctors' lawyer.

Gov. Scott said Tuesday that gun ownership rights were paramount.

"I believe in the Second Amendment. I believe the citizens have a right to bear arms," the governor said. "I believe that we should be able to lead our lives without people intruding on them."

Other supporters believe it's time to rein in doctors and professional organizations they claim are hostile to guns in general.

"Gun owners can rest assured that doctors who ask them about the subject and record their answers are motivated by a good faith belief that the information is relevant to the patient's care and well-being, and not by an ideological or other non-medical agenda," the National Rifle Association said in court documents. "Their patients have an equal right to hold contrary views and to be protected from harassment."

Brady Center attorney Daniel Vice said no other state has such a broad prohibition on what physicians can say about guns.

"This isn't about the Second Amendment. It's about the First Amendment," Vice said.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/fla-lawsuit-can-doctors-ask-patients-about-guns


Regrds,
hm
_________________________
If what's ahead scares you and what's behind hurts you, look up; He never fails you.

If My people will humble themselves, pray, seek My face & turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven & will forgive their sin & heal their land.




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#2212718 - 05/05/12 01:07 PM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: hm1996]
azmastablasta Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 14187
Loc: Arizona
You know, I may be out of the mainstream here. I don't consider Doctors to be special. I don't defer to my Docs thinking they are smarter than me. They simply put extra time studying things that I didn't. They don't intimidate me. I don't let them decide which test they will do until they give me a valid reason why they believe it necessary and then at times I still say no. Too many people are reluctant to be in charge of their medical care and allow unnecessary cya tests. It's no wonder medical costs are skyrocketing.

Although no Doc has ever asked me about guns, if it happened I'd have no qualms about telling him it's simply none of his business, now carry on. People need to take control. If the Docs ego is too big to handle this, then it's time to find another.
_________________________
NRA LIFEMEMBER


Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions.

You can lead a man to knowledge but you can't make him think.

Wise men argue causes; fools decide them. Anacharsis

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#2212720 - 05/05/12 01:16 PM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: hm1996]
HunterBear71 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 2245
Loc: SC
I agree with blasta for once. I just don't answer what i consider stupid questions. The doc just thinks i'm a cranky patient.

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#2212724 - 05/05/12 01:20 PM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: azmastablasta]
hm1996 Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 07/23/06
Posts: 16535
Loc: S. Texas
While I have not been asked, the answer would be, "none of your business".

I would have my suspicions about the motivations behind such a question and apparently some physicians have refused to treat patients who refuse to answer the question. It would be a mutual dismissal as far as I would be concerned.

Apparently Fl court pretty much gutted the law, however:

http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/09/19/39889.htm


Regards,
hm
_________________________
If what's ahead scares you and what's behind hurts you, look up; He never fails you.

If My people will humble themselves, pray, seek My face & turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven & will forgive their sin & heal their land.




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#2212817 - 05/05/12 05:24 PM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: hm1996]
Rocky1 Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 11/24/10
Posts: 11518
Loc: ND/FL - USA
The problem isn't necessarily in the well intentioned Doc asking you or I about the guns in our homes, because anyone with half a brain would be inclined to tell him, it's none of his damm business, unless he is treating you for a self inflicted gunshot wound. The true problem lies in the doctors questioning the children of gun owners, without the parents' presence in the room. Well meaning children, will respect the doctor enough to tell them anything they want to hear about guns in the household. And, the problem lies there in the laws surrounding leaving a gun where a child can get hold of it.

We essentially go back there, to the Canadian gentleman who was arrested because his child drew a picture of a gun in school. If the kid says he's seen guns out around the house, exaggerates because it makes the god doctor happy, then in comes Family Services to determine how many guns are out around the house. Possibly with the law in tow, if they fear for their lives, or feel the law has been broken, simply because there are guns in the house.

The doctor has no business questioning such, period. It is not his place, unless the patient would be considered mentally unfit to own a gun.
_________________________
Think about how stupid the average person is, then stop and realize... Half of them are stupider than that! -- George Carlin

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#2212954 - 05/05/12 11:33 PM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: hm1996]
Tnslim Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 07/07/09
Posts: 2192
Loc: TN
Due to the tremendous rise in my medical insurance premiums (over $2000 monthly) I now go to the VA. One of my first visits was to the phsyc eval doctor who asked me several questions about my gun collection. Not wanting to lose my VA benefits I was completely honest with this lady. I explained that yes I did have a gun safe and that there were no children in my home. She also inquired to my mental state and did I ever feel suicidal. Although I felt the questions concerning my guns were none of her business I was polite and honest in my answers. Sure hope this doesn't come back and bite me in the butt. I also must say that I have never recieved better care and am treated as an honored quest.

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#2212958 - 05/05/12 11:47 PM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: hm1996]
OldTurtle Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/20/05
Posts: 19624
Loc: East Central FL
The biggest problem that I see with questions of that type from oblique sources is that most medical records are now stored in a mega data base that is accessible by other doctors, insurance companies, and various federal law enforcement agencies (usually with a warrant, supposedly)....

I take the position that what I own is no one's business and those type of questions are inappropriate from a medical standpoint, unless I'm the subject of a mental evaluation...
_________________________
Nature shares her secrets not to those that hurry by, but to those that walk with a happy heart and a seeing eye...


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#2212983 - 05/06/12 12:55 AM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: hm1996]
HunterBear71 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 2245
Loc: SC
Information is a valuable commodity. Personal information can be particularly valuable across a multitude of scenarios. A good policy is to attempt to collect information rather than dessiminate it. Under no circumstances would I feel it necessary to discuss any weapons I might own with any individual other than a close personal friend. I do not own any weapons.

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#2212984 - 05/06/12 12:58 AM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: Tnslim]
hm1996 Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 07/23/06
Posts: 16535
Loc: S. Texas
Originally Posted By: Tnslim
Due to the tremendous rise in my medical insurance premiums (over $2000 monthly) I now go to the VA. One of my first visits was to the phsyc eval doctor who asked me several questions about my gun collection. Not wanting to lose my VA benefits I was completely honest with this lady. I explained that yes I did have a gun safe and that there were no children in my home. She also inquired to my mental state and did I ever feel suicidal. Although I felt the questions concerning my guns were none of her business I was polite and honest in my answers. Sure hope this doesn't come back and bite me in the butt. I also must say that I have never recieved better care and am treated as an honored quest.


Have been going to VA for 8 or 9 years and was never asked any questions regarding firearms ownership but the last visit they were updating and computerizing all patients files and I was asked about depression, suicidal thoughts, anger issues, PTSD etc. I figure that is a reasonable question to ask any vet, so answered all questions asked. Had they asked about firearms I'm afraid I would have declined to answer as I don't think that is relevant to my medical issues.

Edit to add: Agree that the VA care and treatment of all concerned is superb.

Regards,
hm


Edited by hm1996 (05/06/12 01:00 AM)
_________________________
If what's ahead scares you and what's behind hurts you, look up; He never fails you.

If My people will humble themselves, pray, seek My face & turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven & will forgive their sin & heal their land.




Top
#2212985 - 05/06/12 01:08 AM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: HunterBear71]
jumprightinit Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 7024
Loc: Ione, Washistan
Originally Posted By: HunterBear71
Information is a valuable commodity. Personal information can be particularly valuable across a multitude of scenarios. A good policy is to attempt to collect information rather than dessiminate it. Under no circumstances would I feel it necessary to discuss any weapons I might own with any individual other than a close personal friend. I do not own any weapons.


I'm not your Doctor or close friend but if you own no weapons how do you hunt 'Predators'?
_________________________
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.


LIBERALS.
Be careful. Sometimes they look like regular people.



No matter how you look at it at the end of the day BO still stinks.


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#2212987 - 05/06/12 01:15 AM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: jumprightinit]
Dead Down Wind Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2639
Loc: Lakewood, Co.
Originally Posted By: jumprightinit
Originally Posted By: HunterBear71
Information is a valuable commodity. Personal information can be particularly valuable across a multitude of scenarios. A good policy is to attempt to collect information rather than dessiminate it. Under no circumstances would I feel it necessary to discuss any weapons I might own with any individual other than a close personal friend. I do not own any weapons.


I'm not your Doctor or close friend but if you own no weapons how do you hunt 'Predators'?


TROLL!!
_________________________
A great judge of character is how you handle the things that don't benefit you.

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#2212995 - 05/06/12 01:33 AM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: jumprightinit]
HunterBear71 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 2245
Loc: SC
Originally Posted By: jumprightinit
Originally Posted By: HunterBear71
Information is a valuable commodity. Personal information can be particularly valuable across a multitude of scenarios. A good policy is to attempt to collect information rather than dessiminate it. Under no circumstances would I feel it necessary to discuss any weapons I might own with any individual other than a close personal friend. I do not own any weapons.


I'm not your Doctor or close friend but if you own no weapons how do you hunt 'Predators'?


Why ask that question?


Edited by HunterBear71 (05/06/12 01:34 AM)

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#2213075 - 05/06/12 09:58 AM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: hm1996]
Dead Down Wind Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2639
Loc: Lakewood, Co.
Troll!!
_________________________
A great judge of character is how you handle the things that don't benefit you.

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#2213081 - 05/06/12 10:18 AM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: hm1996]
BubbaChicken Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 534
Loc: Tennesee, USA
Nah, HB uses rocks and sticks, right bud?

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#2213082 - 05/06/12 10:21 AM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: hm1996]
OldTurtle Offline
Moderator

Registered: 12/20/05
Posts: 19624
Loc: East Central FL
Quote:
I'm not your Doctor or close friend but if you own no weapons how do you hunt 'Predators'?
....With a Big Knife and a Sharp Stick...Didn't someone on the board develop a "Tactical Stick"...I think that's the one I copied... rolleyes thumbup
_________________________
Nature shares her secrets not to those that hurry by, but to those that walk with a happy heart and a seeing eye...


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#2213088 - 05/06/12 10:37 AM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: hm1996]
Orneryolfart357 Offline
PM senior

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 9053
Loc: Nevada
Prolly just waves his "Vote for Obama" poster, and the Coyotes die of laughter. grin
_________________________




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#2213135 - 05/06/12 01:04 PM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: OldTurtle]
Rocky1 Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 11/24/10
Posts: 11518
Loc: ND/FL - USA
Originally Posted By: OldTurtle
The biggest problem that I see with questions of that type from oblique sources is that most medical records are now stored in a mega data base that is accessible by other doctors, insurance companies, and various federal law enforcement agencies (usually with a warrant, supposedly)....

I take the position that what I own is no one's business and those type of questions are inappropriate from a medical standpoint, unless I'm the subject of a mental evaluation...



Or, with a letter of consent... In renewal of my Concealed Carry Permit in ND, you now have to sign a consent form to allow search of your medical records, for any evidence of metal illness, if you've EVER been treated for drug or alcohol abuse, or if you've EVER had a DUI. Pretty ridiculous considering the DUI occured 23 years, but it's required.
_________________________
Think about how stupid the average person is, then stop and realize... Half of them are stupider than that! -- George Carlin

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#2213182 - 05/06/12 02:54 PM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: HunterBear71]
jumprightinit Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/29/07
Posts: 7024
Loc: Ione, Washistan
Originally Posted By: HunterBear71
Originally Posted By: jumprightinit
Originally Posted By: HunterBear71
Information is a valuable commodity. Personal information can be particularly valuable across a multitude of scenarios. A good policy is to attempt to collect information rather than dessiminate it. Under no circumstances would I feel it necessary to discuss any weapons I might own with any individual other than a close personal friend. I do not own any weapons.


I'm not your Doctor or close friend but if you own no weapons how do you hunt 'Predators'?


Why ask that question?


Just wondering about your real interest in predator hunting.
_________________________
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.


LIBERALS.
Be careful. Sometimes they look like regular people.



No matter how you look at it at the end of the day BO still stinks.


Top
#2213210 - 05/06/12 04:19 PM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: hm1996]
Dead Down Wind Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2639
Loc: Lakewood, Co.
He is a spy for obummer!

He does nothing other than monitor this site for people that speak their mind and he reports in daily.

A predator hunters website and he is not a hunter nor does he have any weapons! Yet! When this country goes into a dictator country he will have wished he did!!!!!


Obummer will just throw him out like yesterdays paper!!
_________________________
A great judge of character is how you handle the things that don't benefit you.

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#2213218 - 05/06/12 04:30 PM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: hm1996]
HunterBear71 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 2245
Loc: SC
Negative. Not a spy and just made a post explaining why it is better to gather information than dessiminate it. I've hunted predators since the early eighties when I was using a piece of cellophane as a call. I'm kidding about the weapons but it really isn't anyones business. I have never understood the desire to share that kind of information. The country will be just fine and none of our current political parties are interested in a dictatorship.

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#2213227 - 05/06/12 04:42 PM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: hm1996]
4570Fan Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 02/02/11
Posts: 64
Loc: Buchanan Dam, TX
Yep! The paper he used to line the bird cage!
_________________________
Charlie S.
RM2, USN-Ret.

Benjamin Armada .25
Rem. 788 .243Win
Marlin 1895SS .45-70Govt
Winchester M70 .30-06
Ruger 10/22
Ruger NM Blackhawk .41Mag
If I can't do it with one of those, I ain't trying it!

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#2213250 - 05/06/12 05:18 PM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: HunterBear71]
Rubenator Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 4430
Loc: Oakland,Il.
Originally Posted By: HunterBear71
The country will be just fine and none of our current political parties are interested in a dictatorship.
Naive thinking HB.

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#2213251 - 05/06/12 05:18 PM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: 4570Fan]
Rim_Runner Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 3771
Loc: Dewey, Az
You guys are funny. So when other members of this board proclaimed that they didn’t have any firearms were they also trolls and spys?
_________________________
Some days it isn't worth chewing thru the leather straps to get out of bed.
I spent most of the family fortune on beer and women. The rest I just wasted.
There are 10 kinds of people in this world. Those that understand binary and those that don’t.

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#2213266 - 05/06/12 05:55 PM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: hm1996]
tnshootist Online
PM senior

Registered: 11/26/10
Posts: 7487
Loc: East Tn
I had to see all kind of gov doctors for SSI reasons.One of them did a mental evaluation.He just asked normal questions and was nice.Then he closed the file and said I notice your shooting patch on your jacket,do you shoot?I thought to myself that I had done a dumb trick wearing that jacket,I never thought about the patch.I said yes I have shot all my life.Hunted and competitive shooting and just shooting on the farm for fun.I did not know what would come next.He said "I also own guns and my father in law does and we like to shoot as well I think it is necessary for protection at home now days." "i have to be careful who I talk to about it though but I saw the patch and thought you might be ok.I don't get to talk about my guns much."So I guess it works both ways sometimes.Things have lost all use of common sense.
_________________________
"Money won't buy happiness, but you can suffer a better grade of misery in a nicer part of town." Brother Bill Samples


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#2219425 - 05/17/12 03:39 PM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: hm1996]
Dead Down Wind Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2639
Loc: Lakewood, Co.
As i stated earlier!!!

He is a spy for obummer!

He does nothing other than monitor this site for people that speak their mind and he reports in daily.

A predator hunters website and he is not a hunter nor does he have any weapons! Yet! When this country goes into a dictator country he will have wished he did!!!!!


Obummer will just throw him out like yesterdays paper!!
_________________________
A great judge of character is how you handle the things that don't benefit you.

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#2219463 - 05/17/12 04:55 PM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: hm1996]
RJM Acres Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 10/07/09
Posts: 3743
Loc: Ozarks
My Dr and the nurse ask me about guns.
They both live on farms and raise cattle and horses.
We discuss coyotes, etc just about every time I'm there.

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#2219599 - 05/17/12 09:55 PM Re: Can Doctors ask patients about guns? [Re: hm1996]
Dead Down Wind Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2639
Loc: Lakewood, Co.
My Dr. and his nurses say they like my guns!

I roll up the sleeves and they say - Nice guns!
_________________________
A great judge of character is how you handle the things that don't benefit you.

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