What makes a coyote chase a dog?

Originally Posted By: knockemdown

Jesse, I'd like to hear from you, too, since you run hounds. Do you run in the spring/summer? If so, how do you handle the denning aspect after an adult is taken?


Thanks...

Sorry, just now saw this.

Yes, we run all year round, spring summer fall and winter. But, running hounds is a totaly different ball game. We are free casting hounds into the woods. This time of year we all know the yotes are quite agressive. We all know why right? because they are protecting pups in the ground. You will never find a den without a coyote on guard somewhere close, and its not the wet female. So when you cast a dog, and gets close to a den, and is messing around making noise, there is going to be atleast one coyote there to intercept him. Again, usually not the wet female. Infact, it can be very hard to get a yote going this time of year because they stay fairly close to the den, and when a dog opens, they will all close in and push the dog away from the den. So when a smart old dog gets one infront of him, and gets him moving, the chances of it being a wet female are pretty slim to none.

But, we all know its not impossible. So lets just say the wet female ventured off a little farther than normal to feed, and our dogs stumbled apon her tracks, and now she is running for her life. Could Happen, But think about this. Between me and my brother in law, and the 7 hounds we ran most this year, we caught around 30 coyotes this winter. 4 of those were females. We ran lots of females, but caught only 4. A female runs alot better, and a hound has to honestly over take her, and catch her on her feet, where a male will run hard for only so long, get tired and decide that he needs to find a place to stop and fight. We dont shoot coyotes, so i would say the chances of our hounds catching a wet female this time of year is pretty slim.

Ok, so we have decided that the chances of catching a wet female are slim, but lets just say we did (in all the years i have spent running hounds i have seen two wet females caught) If i knew exactly where the den was, i might go dig it up, but probably not.

I have had the blessing to spend lots and lots of time with a man who as far as im concerned has more coyote sence than anyone i have ever met in my life. He has made his living on coyotes for over 50 years. I only ever shot one coyote while i was with him, and it was a wet female coming out of a den. He asked me to shoot her when we were having a similar conversation. Said he was going to teach me something. Well, i shot her, and threw her in the back of the truck. Well, he took me back to that very spot every day for a week, to show me a new coyote going in and out of the den. He took me back a few weeks later to show me all the little coyote pups running around the mouth of the den.

So long story short, i dont think its right to target wet females unless you are going to take care of the pups, but at the same time i dont think a guy should stop hunting because of the pups. Coyotes were made to survive, and there is none better fit to survive than a coyote. Coyote pups are pretty hard to kill, so for me, with limited coyotes in the area, and no need to reduce their numbers drasticly, i would rather give them a fighting chance at living, rather than diggin them up and thumping them.
 
Originally Posted By: Jesse lackey

I have had the blessing to spend lots and lots of time with a man who as far as im concerned has more coyote sence than anyone i have ever met in my life. He has made his living on coyotes for over 50 years. I only ever shot one coyote while i was with him, and it was a wet female coming out of a den. He asked me to shoot her when we were having a similar conversation. Said he was going to teach me something. Well, i shot her, and threw her in the back of the truck. Well, he took me back to that very spot every day for a week, to show me a new coyote going in and out of the den. He took me back a few weeks later to show me all the little coyote pups running around the mouth of the den.

I'm not quite following this part? About a "new" coyote going in and out of the den." Are you talking about the other adult coyote of the pups? OR a "non-related" neighboring adult coyote or a non-related nomadic adult coyote tending to pups. That are not theirs?
 
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Ummmmmmmmmmmm, Kirby I'm not sure which group you listed this would be, but there was a new coyote tending the pups. Don't know where it came from or sex or anything like that.
 
Originally Posted By: Jesse lackeyUmmmmmmmmmmmm, Kirby I'm not sure which group you listed this would be, but there was a new coyote tending the pups. Don't know where it came from or sex or anything like that.

Jesse I understand your reply. The part that don't jive with me. Is a "non-related? coyote" showing up to tend to pups that no longer have their mother. The father(if still alive) of those pups will take over the female's duties. If she is killed. As long as the pups have been introduced to meat. A fresh kill or re-gurged prey, before the female is killed. In other words, weaned. If weaned, they would then have a good chance of surviving. I've seen this very thing with Red Fox.

BTW, even IF weaned. Et if the female is still producing milk. Her pups will continue to suckle.

An adult mated pr of coyotes that have their own territory. Then have a litter of pups. Do not tolerate "un-related" coyotes to venture ONTO their territory. Let alone show up to rear their pups. If that were the case, then there would be "packs/groups" of non-related coyotes on a pr's territory all yr around. Liken to some big "un-related" happy family. Point being, coyotes are NOT a true "pack" canine. Like wolves are. Allowing "non-related" wolves to join their pack. As well as assist in rearing the alpha's pups.

Coyotes have either a family group/(alpha male, alpha female & their off-spring). Otherwise when dispersed/scattered yearlings can/will "group-up" for a limited time. As when they are in search of their own mate & or their own territory.
 
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kirby, what he's saying is after he killed the female another coyote either fed or nursed those pups, i seen it happen, i have seen the male feed pups and i have seen another female come to her milk and nurse pups, i dont know if the female was a last year pup out of the pair or not but i have seen it
 
Originally Posted By: trapper2kirby, what he's saying is after he killed the female another coyote either fed or nursed those pups, i seen it happen, i have seen the male feed pups and i have seen another female come to her milk and nurse pups, i dont know if the female was a last year pup out of the pair or not but i have seen it

I had another ADC Pro tell me the same thing. I was going to ask about it but didn't want to throw out 2nd hand stuff.

Sounds crazy but the guy who told me is a real pro, Sheep Ranch ADC guy. Now hearing the same thing from Trapper2 I have to buy it.
 
Originally Posted By: trapper2kirby, what he's saying is after he killed the female another coyote either fed or nursed those pups, i seen it happen, i have seen the male feed pups and i have seen another female come to her milk and nurse pups, i dont know if the female was a last year pup out of the pair or not but i have seen it

Jesse couldn't recall whether that coyote was male, female or if related. The non-related part is what I don't buy. Speaking of an alpha pr keeping back a yearling female into the next season. To assist in rearing pups. I never bought into that scenario for many yrs. Not until I seen it 1st hand not many yrs ago. I've only seen that once in all the yrs, I've observed & or hunted coyotes. Which is 44 seasons.

Speaking of which I seen that very same thing with a pr of older Reds, that same yr/(What are the odds of that
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) They too, kept back a yearling pup throughout the Winter. So I know now, that scenario can or does exist. But I happen to believe it is much more rare, than common place.
 
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What the heck CK, Trapper2 is more credable than me now? Im truly hurt! hahahahah

Kirby, i dont meen to sound like a smart azz, but its just so natural to me, so here goes...................
Im not sure what the coyote's relation was to the pups, I tried to ask, but this perticular yote spoke spanish!

All im saying is that all the "wildlife Biologists" and "experts" can say, and wright books, and internet articles about things that they know to be true, But when people who spend all day every day dealing with the critters, rather than making maps of their travels, and watching them from a hill top with a camera tell and show me something, it tends to make a believer of me. I will take facts proven by my own eyes any day over what i read on wickapedia.
 
Originally Posted By: Jesse lackeyWhat the heck CK, Trapper2 is more credable than me now? Im truly hurt! hahahahah

Kirby, i dont meen to sound like a smart azz, but its just so natural to me, so here goes...................
Im not sure what the coyote's relation was to the pups, I tried to ask, but this perticular yote spoke spanish!

All im saying is that all the "wildlife Biologists" and "experts" can say, and wright books, and internet articles about things that they know to be true, But when people who spend all day every day dealing with the critters, rather than making maps of their travels, and watching them from a hill top with a camera tell and show me something, it tends to make a believer of me. I will take facts proven by my own eyes any day over what i read on wickapedia.

Well then we might be related?
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RUN...JESSE...RUN
Well I'm pretty much the same way, Jesse. If the experts opinions/theorys don't match/(or counter) what I've seen in the field. Then their opinions/theorys to ME don't hold much IF any water.
 
i guess i missed something jesse said, i cant find where he said it was non-related, the only place i see that is from you. i dont know how often it happens but it can and does. we aint all going to agree on everything and i wasnt trying to get anyone to, just stating what i have seen
 
emerald, the gyp i saw only raised that set of pups, i believe she was dry and came to her milk, just what i think and saw, no proof. i do know of two different guys that have bought coyote pups home to raise and their female dogs came to their milk with in 4 days and raised those pups, i guess from motherly nature, again just a guess, but it happened
 
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maybe she had in the past, i dont know, i know both of the dogs that came to their milk had raised litters in the past but not anywhere close to the time the coyote pups were brought home and they went to raising them
 
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