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tnshootist

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I just saw an add on TV that showed how US students placed 17th in some kind of world wide contest or rating system.The solution according to the add was to pay our teachers more money.
Does this mean our teachers are holding back and not teaching to the best of their ability because they want more money?How would paying them more help anything if that is not the case.We can't fire them and hire better teachers because they have tenure.If more money would make them teach better because they don't care or are holding back from our kids for more money,then we need to be working on a way to fire them instead of paying more.
 
if more money makes teachers teach better then the USA ought to have millions of Einsteins running around. here in my county we dont have money to repair the roads but the teachers are getting their raises and bonuses, while the county has to fund their pensions.
 
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Red that's a good one.I don't know where you get that stuff but it fits.I am sure we have some really good teachers out there that are doing an outstanding job. They are probably going about their business doing a good job quietly is why we don't hear about them.I would be all for merit raises,if we could find a good way to figure out who has merit as opposed to who has a uncle on the school board.
 
Originally Posted By: tnshootistI just saw an add on TV that showed how US students placed 17th in some kind of world wide contest or rating system.The solution according to the add was to pay our teachers more money.
Does this mean our teachers are holding back and not teaching to the best of their ability because they want more money?How would paying them more help anything if that is not the case.We can't fire them and hire better teachers because they have tenure.If more money would make them teach better because they don't care or are holding back from our kids for more money,then we need to be working on a way to fire them instead of paying more.

The data doesn't take into account that here everyone goes to school, even the deaf, dumb, blind and the mentally handicapped. In a lot of countries those people are left behind without an education and only the elite go to school.
 
Originally Posted By: tnshootistI just saw an add on TV that showed how US students placed 17th in some kind of world wide contest or rating system.The solution according to the add was to pay our teachers more money.
Does this mean our teachers are holding back and not teaching to the best of their ability because they want more money?How would paying them more help anything if that is not the case.We can't fire them and hire better teachers because they have tenure.If more money would make them teach better because they don't care or are holding back from our kids for more money,then we need to be working on a way to fire them instead of paying more.


Put 'em on the incentive plan... Pay them according to students' ranking.


Actually I was more sensitive to teachers' needs until recently listening to a group of 6 of them whining about having been reprimanded for comments they posted on Facebook, during the workday, and in fact in at least one case, during class time. Their defense was that it was not inappropriate use of a school computer, she made the post on her cell phone. Well... I'm sorry, but what exactly the [beeep] was her class doing while she was playing on Facebook??
 
I wish everyone in this country could have to chance to be in Miss Dela Justice's 6th grade class.She taught my father,me,and my daughter.She was long lived and enjoyed good health which allowed her to teach a long time.
She started every day with a prayer,a passage from the New Testament,the Pledge to the Flag of the US.And you did put your hand over your heart and you did stand up straight and you did show respect.She did all these things without any threat of punishment,it was what was right and expected and was never questioned.I had a few teachers back then that just got respect,it was just something about how they handled themselves that did it. They did not act tough or anything,they just got respect.I have spent many hours thinking about them in the 40+ years that have past and I have never been able to figure out what was so different,that they could make a class become quite just by looking out over the room.Everyone would shut up and face front,it was a skill I wish every teacher had.I know students are different now,but some of us back then,in these mountains,were pretty rough kids. I told my kids to enforce the rules from the start about little things,then big things never develop. I think that is one of the things those teachers did that made them able to force some education into the hard heads of us Mt. boys. And I don't think teaching paid very well back then.
 
Originally Posted By: tnshootistI told my kids to enforce the rules from the start about little things,then big things never develop. I think that is one of the things those teachers did that made them able to force some education into the hard heads of us Mt. boys. And I don't think teaching paid very well back then.


There's the key, Tn. Far too many parents want to be their kid's "buddy", not their parent and it carries over to many teachers, as well. That and times have changed in that parents and teachers alike are no longer allowed to discipline kids. It all boils down to the fact that kids are not brought up to respect authority today as we were years ago.



Regards,
hm
 
Originally Posted By: hm1996 Originally Posted By: tnshootistI told my kids to enforce the rules from the start about little things,then big things never develop. I think that is one of the things those teachers did that made them able to force some education into the hard heads of us Mt. boys. And I don't think teaching paid very well back then.


There's the key, Tn. Far too many parents want to be their kid's "buddy", not their parent and it carries over to many teachers, as well. That and times have changed in that parents and teachers alike are no longer allowed to discipline kids. It all boils down to the fact that kids are not brought up to respect authority today as we were years ago.



Regards,
hm


Exactly... there are 2 ways to reach a child and get them to do what you want them to do, 1.) is through authority, the other 2.) is by being their buddy. Unfortunately, there are those in this world that do not realize you can implement both effectively at the same time as a teacher or parent.
 
I think we are on the same wave length, Rocky. Don't get me wrong, I think you can still be your kid's buddy but they have to understand exactly where the boundaries are. Parents today tend to not set firm boundaries.

All kids are searching for the boundary; that's what they do for a living.
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Once they find the boundary, they are much more comfortable and tend to respect the parent/teacher/boundary. JMHO

Regards,
hm
 
Had a teacher like TN's in 6th, 7th grade. She knew how to set those boundaries required and enforce them. Funny thing, all us kids in her class thought she was the worlds best teacher AND human being.
 
Young people would never agree but as you men said boundaries equate to security.As adults we like to know where the boundaries are.That is one of the things wrong today,the boundaries have become blurred.I like to think I know what my personal boundaries are,but now you can have no idea where the other fellows boundaries lie.It makes it hard to do business,or deal with the public in general.In past times even thugs had a code of sorts,now the theme seems that no limits at all,or say having nothing you wont do is what makes heroes to some.A man needs to know in his heart that there are some things he just wont do,no matter what,without that he feels lost.He also needs to feel he has something in his life worth giving his life for,without that ,he is also lost.
 

I think what the article was ment to mean was, that if you increase the pay, you would attract a higher level of applicant. Im not sure it would, but I think thats what they mean.
 
It's been demonstrated in several studies that higher pay does not necessarily equate to better performance in an individual...

There are several vocations that require the desire to succeed and excel (teaching is one) in order to be really effective...Those that place monetary considerations above the real calling for the vocation will only turn out mediocre performance, if not substandard performance..

Like tnshootist, my parents and teachers laid out expected parimeters of behavior and stuck to them...If I stepped out side of the boundaries, I was punished and never gave a thought that I didn't deserve what I got...I had a lot of respect and affection for them all..
 
Originally Posted By: OldTurtleIt's been demonstrated in several studies that higher pay does not necessarily equate to better performance in an individual...

There are several vocations that require the desire to succeed and excel (teaching is one) in order to be really effective...Those that place monetary considerations above the real calling for the vocation will only turn out mediocre performance, if not substandard performance..
Teaching isn't in one of these categories. All students are not equal, there are too many variables. Performance pay would be a lopside white elephant. A teacher cannot teach a student that doesn't want to learn. A student with learning disabilities doesn't learn at the same rate as a normal student, and the examples can go on and in.


Quote:Like tnshootist, my parents and teachers laid out expected parimeters of behavior and stuck to them...If I stepped out side of the boundaries, I was punished and never gave a thought that I didn't deserve what I got...I had a lot of respect and affection for them all..
As far as discipline the system is broke, no it had been almost totally dismantled. And the troublemakers know it. One trouble maker can ruin a learning environment. The teachers hands are tied, then the "little darling" to the office, and he/she comes back and repeats the problem. 25 kids, one troublemaker, in a 50 minute class, first he/she causes the disruption, 5 minutes lost, then he/she is taken to the office, another 10 minutes lost. 15 minutes because of one "little darling", if this happens 2 or 3 times a week the good students have lost a full day's of instruction.

Next alternative classes for the troublemakers, "The No Kid Left Behind" mandates the "little darling" gets an education. A special teacher gets their handful, 4 or 5 of these "little darlings", another salary wasted on these "little darlings". You will have to take my word for it, but these teachers are the some of the most dedicated in the system, because they deal with the sewer of the system. Now the kid doesn't care about learning, and doesn't put forth any effort. How do you measure the performance of the teacher? You can't, another reason performance pay is screw job.

If you don't believe me, try volunteering a few days a week in a middle school, get to know the teachers, then do a semester of volunteering in high school. I would not try elementary, that is where it starts, and I would hate to see anyone kill one of these "little darlings" at such a young age. I only lasted a 2 times, you cannot reason with a 2ND grader like you can a 7TH grader.

And yes there are deadbeat teachers, but a lot less than most people think. Some get weeded out, some fall through the cracks and are there for life. But not much different than any other profession, every profession has their POS, even hunters
 
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