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#2198841 - 04/11/12 12:30 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: DTOM]
SHampton Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 04/28/11
Posts: 1778
Loc: BAOklahoma
Wet cow piles have an unexplainable force field that pulls my dog to them. It has to have something to do with his collar because it seems to always get packed full.

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#2199047 - 04/11/12 07:51 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: SHampton]
knockemdown Offline
suburban redneck

Registered: 02/19/03
Posts: 4744
Loc: NY
Thanks for clarifying, Mason.
That makes perfect sense, it wouldn't take much to do better than ZERO, LOL!!!
Getting off topic again, but I KNOW I'm handicapped here,and this topic isn't aboutme, or my dog. So I got defensive & called BS. Somehow, the topic kept getting re-directed at me, so I reckon I read that wrong. But I still don't think a 115 lb. dog would be worth a crap on stand, so my BS assessment stands laugh

And while I'm at it, I've actually hunted coyotes in your state of Nevada, as well as Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri....blah blah blah, yadda yadda. So I'm darn sure, hunting out there is certainly not apples to apples, as compared to back this way. Not even close!!! Back on topic...

Don't know what all about the droppings, cause they're all just $hit to me wink

Thanks again for clarifying, I appreciate that. And I also appreciate the info & advice you offered me back when I first got my dog.
One more thing. Although I strongly disagree with you about the "badger food" deal, I can still find it in me to give you props for speaking freely about it.

take care, man!

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#2199055 - 04/11/12 08:08 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: knockemdown]
Catdawg Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/13/09
Posts: 121
Loc: Nevada
Don't get all riled up... You have proven to us all that you know $hit!

Just messing with you buddy.

Take care.

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#2199075 - 04/11/12 08:33 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: kirby]
kirby Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 7902
Loc: nowheresville
"What makes a coyote chase a dog?"

IMO, these local/territorial coyotes that see another canine on their land. Triggers a response from them they can't help. Whether it is standing aways away & barking/yapping. Or running in to fight or run off the tresspasser canine.

Add the mate/(or the whole family group) to that Territorial adult coyote. Et they can/will be even more bold or agressive. I've spoken with hundreds of farmers & acrege owners over the yrs. A number of them have told me about their dog & the area coyotes interactions.

Even large dogs have been piled on right in the farm or acrege yard. Most of those dog vs coyote interactions. There was more than one coyote present. Except a couple of incidents. Where it was one on one.

One acrege owner. Owned a large male Golden Retriever cross. Dog was very large. One night the owner chained that dog to the back door out on their cement patio. A pr of coyotes came into the yard & piled onto that dog.

Owner ran to the kitchen & flipped on the outside light. The dog was on his back, one coyote had the dog by the throat. The other coyote was tearing into the dogs belly.

Owner ran out yelling & started kicking the coyotes. The coyotes continued their attack on the dog. Eventually the owner & his wife had to beat the coyotes with brooms. Before they finally let go & ran off into the darkness.

Why, oh why? you ask laugh Well for starters, the dog was a tresspasser. Secondly the coyotes sized up their foe, then commenced an all out attack.


Edited by kirby (04/11/12 08:35 PM)
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#2199077 - 04/11/12 08:35 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: Catdawg]
knockemdown Offline
suburban redneck

Registered: 02/19/03
Posts: 4744
Loc: NY
don't judge a person til you've walked a mile in his shoes... LOL

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#2199080 - 04/11/12 08:37 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: knockemdown]
knockemdown Offline
suburban redneck

Registered: 02/19/03
Posts: 4744
Loc: NY
kirby,
that guy shoulda had a Cane Corso...

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#2199162 - 04/11/12 10:17 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: knockemdown]
Jesse lackey Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/28/09
Posts: 1909
Loc: Michigan. Go Blue
Originally Posted By: knockemdown


Jesse, I'd like to hear from you, too, since you run hounds. Do you run in the spring/summer? If so, how do you handle the denning aspect after an adult is taken?


Thanks...


Sorry, just now saw this.

Yes, we run all year round, spring summer fall and winter. But, running hounds is a totaly different ball game. We are free casting hounds into the woods. This time of year we all know the yotes are quite agressive. We all know why right? because they are protecting pups in the ground. You will never find a den without a coyote on guard somewhere close, and its not the wet female. So when you cast a dog, and gets close to a den, and is messing around making noise, there is going to be atleast one coyote there to intercept him. Again, usually not the wet female. Infact, it can be very hard to get a yote going this time of year because they stay fairly close to the den, and when a dog opens, they will all close in and push the dog away from the den. So when a smart old dog gets one infront of him, and gets him moving, the chances of it being a wet female are pretty slim to none.

But, we all know its not impossible. So lets just say the wet female ventured off a little farther than normal to feed, and our dogs stumbled apon her tracks, and now she is running for her life. Could Happen, But think about this. Between me and my brother in law, and the 7 hounds we ran most this year, we caught around 30 coyotes this winter. 4 of those were females. We ran lots of females, but caught only 4. A female runs alot better, and a hound has to honestly over take her, and catch her on her feet, where a male will run hard for only so long, get tired and decide that he needs to find a place to stop and fight. We dont shoot coyotes, so i would say the chances of our hounds catching a wet female this time of year is pretty slim.

Ok, so we have decided that the chances of catching a wet female are slim, but lets just say we did (in all the years i have spent running hounds i have seen two wet females caught) If i knew exactly where the den was, i might go dig it up, but probably not.

I have had the blessing to spend lots and lots of time with a man who as far as im concerned has more coyote sence than anyone i have ever met in my life. He has made his living on coyotes for over 50 years. I only ever shot one coyote while i was with him, and it was a wet female coming out of a den. He asked me to shoot her when we were having a similar conversation. Said he was going to teach me something. Well, i shot her, and threw her in the back of the truck. Well, he took me back to that very spot every day for a week, to show me a new coyote going in and out of the den. He took me back a few weeks later to show me all the little coyote pups running around the mouth of the den.

So long story short, i dont think its right to target wet females unless you are going to take care of the pups, but at the same time i dont think a guy should stop hunting because of the pups. Coyotes were made to survive, and there is none better fit to survive than a coyote. Coyote pups are pretty hard to kill, so for me, with limited coyotes in the area, and no need to reduce their numbers drasticly, i would rather give them a fighting chance at living, rather than diggin them up and thumping them.
_________________________
If our wives were more like our dogs...... There would be a lot more happy men in this world.

"six potato chips all at once? wow, guess he is gonna make a decoy dog!" hahaha just kiddin guys!

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#2199167 - 04/11/12 10:21 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: Jesse lackey]
Jeff Mock Offline
President

Registered: 09/01/01
Posts: 11076
Loc: Manchester, MI
That was great Jesse.
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Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid! - JOHN WAYNE

"Predator calling has produced some of the most spectacular misses I have ever witnessed." ---- Fred Cronk




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#2199243 - 04/11/12 11:49 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: Jesse lackey]
kirby Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 7902
Loc: nowheresville
Originally Posted By: Jesse lackey


I have had the blessing to spend lots and lots of time with a man who as far as im concerned has more coyote sence than anyone i have ever met in my life. He has made his living on coyotes for over 50 years. I only ever shot one coyote while i was with him, and it was a wet female coming out of a den. He asked me to shoot her when we were having a similar conversation. Said he was going to teach me something. Well, i shot her, and threw her in the back of the truck. Well, he took me back to that very spot every day for a week, to show me a new coyote going in and out of the den. He took me back a few weeks later to show me all the little coyote pups running around the mouth of the den.


I'm not quite following this part? About a "new" coyote going in and out of the den." Are you talking about the other adult coyote of the pups? OR a "non-related" neighboring adult coyote or a non-related nomadic adult coyote tending to pups. That are not theirs?


Edited by kirby (04/11/12 11:57 PM)
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#2199293 - 04/12/12 07:19 AM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: kirby]
Jesse lackey Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/28/09
Posts: 1909
Loc: Michigan. Go Blue
Ummmmmmmmmmmm, Kirby I'm not sure which group you listed this would be, but there was a new coyote tending the pups. Don't know where it came from or sex or anything like that.
_________________________
If our wives were more like our dogs...... There would be a lot more happy men in this world.

"six potato chips all at once? wow, guess he is gonna make a decoy dog!" hahaha just kiddin guys!

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#2199302 - 04/12/12 07:53 AM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: Jesse lackey]
kirby Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 7902
Loc: nowheresville
Originally Posted By: Jesse lackey
Ummmmmmmmmmmm, Kirby I'm not sure which group you listed this would be, but there was a new coyote tending the pups. Don't know where it came from or sex or anything like that.


Jesse I understand your reply. The part that don't jive with me. Is a "non-related? coyote" showing up to tend to pups that no longer have their mother. The father(if still alive) of those pups will take over the female's duties. If she is killed. As long as the pups have been introduced to meat. A fresh kill or re-gurged prey, before the female is killed. In other words, weaned. If weaned, they would then have a good chance of surviving. I've seen this very thing with Red Fox.

BTW, even IF weaned. Et if the female is still producing milk. Her pups will continue to suckle.

An adult mated pr of coyotes that have their own territory. Then have a litter of pups. Do not tolerate "un-related" coyotes to venture ONTO their territory. Let alone show up to rear their pups. If that were the case, then there would be "packs/groups" of non-related coyotes on a pr's territory all yr around. Liken to some big "un-related" happy family. Point being, coyotes are NOT a true "pack" canine. Like wolves are. Allowing "non-related" wolves to join their pack. As well as assist in rearing the alpha's pups.

Coyotes have either a family group/(alpha male, alpha female & their off-spring). Otherwise when dispersed/scattered yearlings can/will "group-up" for a limited time. As when they are in search of their own mate & or their own territory.


Edited by kirby (04/12/12 10:12 AM)
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#2199714 - 04/12/12 08:52 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: kirby]
trapper2 Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 2182
Loc: north central okla
kirby, what he's saying is after he killed the female another coyote either fed or nursed those pups, i seen it happen, i have seen the male feed pups and i have seen another female come to her milk and nurse pups, i dont know if the female was a last year pup out of the pair or not but i have seen it
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#2199717 - 04/12/12 08:59 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: kirby]
emeraldterriers1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 697
Loc: kansas
i agree with kirby, jesse you may have shot a wet female but i dont think a surrogate mother took over. they are too territorial.
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#2199724 - 04/12/12 09:04 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: trapper2]
DoubleCK Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 3485
Loc: Wauneta, NE / Gold Canyon, AZ
Originally Posted By: trapper2
kirby, what he's saying is after he killed the female another coyote either fed or nursed those pups, i seen it happen, i have seen the male feed pups and i have seen another female come to her milk and nurse pups, i dont know if the female was a last year pup out of the pair or not but i have seen it


I had another ADC Pro tell me the same thing. I was going to ask about it but didn't want to throw out 2nd hand stuff.

Sounds crazy but the guy who told me is a real pro, Sheep Ranch ADC guy. Now hearing the same thing from Trapper2 I have to buy it.
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Don't Go Ridin' on that Long Black Train!

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#2199729 - 04/12/12 09:07 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: trapper2]
kirby Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 7902
Loc: nowheresville
Originally Posted By: trapper2
kirby, what he's saying is after he killed the female another coyote either fed or nursed those pups, i seen it happen, i have seen the male feed pups and i have seen another female come to her milk and nurse pups, i dont know if the female was a last year pup out of the pair or not but i have seen it


Jesse couldn't recall whether that coyote was male, female or if related. The non-related part is what I don't buy. Speaking of an alpha pr keeping back a yearling female into the next season. To assist in rearing pups. I never bought into that scenario for many yrs. Not until I seen it 1st hand not many yrs ago. I've only seen that once in all the yrs, I've observed & or hunted coyotes. Which is 44 seasons.

Speaking of which I seen that very same thing with a pr of older Reds, that same yr/(What are the odds of that blink) They too, kept back a yearling pup throughout the Winter. So I know now, that scenario can or does exist. But I happen to believe it is much more rare, than common place.


Edited by kirby (04/12/12 09:09 PM)
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