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#2196577 - 04/07/12 01:16 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: knockemdown]
CAT DADDY COLD Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/16/04
Posts: 1161
Loc: Comanche OK
I am home working when I ought to be out working my dogs and seen this thread.

That coyote was all business. In the 1st pic you can see its tail held high.
Like it when I see that. You know that coytoe is going to work the dog.
If it plays out long enough and there is a family group within eye or earshot mult coyotes can be killed on that stand.
I LIKED THE PIC'S Tony. Thx for putting them up.

Lots of good post in this thread.

Catch yall later
Kelly
_________________________
Killin coyotes is not chess its checkers…..don’t over think it.

Kelly Jackson - Foxpro Field Staff

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#2196602 - 04/07/12 01:50 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: CAT DADDY COLD]
TonyTebbe Offline
Retired PM Staff.

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 18681
Loc: Lovington, NM
Good God Fred, you roll out too many questions to answer in one sitting.

Of the all the coyotes we've decoyed, there has only been two instances of a flat out fight without chase. Both were big aggressive males. One happened the other day and the other back in Jan. Both are dead.

Gunner's job is to lure coyotes back. This is a rare case that he got jumped. After the tussle, he broke loose from the coyote. A bluffing session pursued and the coyote finally headed out, with Gunner on his tail. When they got out 350 yards or so, Gunner broke from chase and headed back to me, with coyote in hot pursuit. This happened a couple of times, before I decided to shoot.

I don't encourage the aggressive behavior for shear enjoyment. Again, this was a case of him being jumped. He doesn't flat kill coyotes on his own, like some wild animal. It's not like that at all.

For the details on how the stand went down, how and why Gunner released, etc... you are just going to have to wait to see the footage. smile

Thanks...

Tony
_________________________
Loving my Kids, Loving my Woman, Loving my Dogs, Loving my Job..........Loving my Life!

Tony Tebbe

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#2196612 - 04/07/12 02:20 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: CAT DADDY COLD]
brannon74 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/28/11
Posts: 297
Loc: sw oklahoma
cool pis tony.

Please don't stop posting videos guys. Some of us don't get to hunt much and need the videos and stories to get us through the week.
_________________________
2013 totals
Stands 60
Yotes called in 39
yotes killed 27
bobcats 0

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#2196620 - 04/07/12 02:41 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: TonyTebbe]
kirby Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 7902
Loc: nowheresville
Dang! someone write that down, Tony agreed? with me laugh
-----------------------------------------
Speaking of canine behaviors/( dog, coyote, whatever).

A long term study was done in Russia "over a 40yr span" by some Biologists in Russia. They used wild Silver Fox. During this study, each yearly litter. They picked out the pups with the most docile. Non-agressive traits in them.

Over the following yrs. They kept breeding the non-agressive/docile fox. Eventually, they noted in those yearlings/off spring. Their color started to change, their tails started to curl. Et their ears started to droop. As they became more "domesticated" vs remaining wild.

Lineage, I believe is a strong factor in agressiveness vs passiveness. Same with coyotes or domestic dogs IMO.

edit; BTW, this was a filmed/televised study. Which made it even better, to see & understand.


Edited by kirby (04/07/12 02:55 PM)
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retired

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#2196789 - 04/07/12 08:07 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: kirby]
Awakeland Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 122
Loc: IL
+ 1 to brannon74
_________________________
Wakeland
"After all these years I see that I was mistaken about Eve in the beginning; it is better to live outside the Garden with her than inside it without her."-Mark Twain
"Life is hard; it's harder if you're stupid."-John Wayne

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#2196827 - 04/07/12 09:05 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: Awakeland]
Duane@ssu Offline
Retired moderator

Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 4095
Loc: Gods Country
Sure is a fun topic.
Good post, Tony with the good pics, and lots of good discussion.
Knockemdown, you getting anything figured out??????
Not bustin on you, just wantin to know if the responses are helping you??
_________________________


"IF YOU'RE GONNA TALK SMART,YOU BETTER RIDE A FAST HORSE"








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#2196832 - 04/07/12 09:11 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: SHampton]
Jesse lackey Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/28/09
Posts: 1909
Loc: Michigan. Go Blue
Knockemdown, Im just curiouse here. You said that every coyote you have called in over the past year has boogered at the sight of your dog right? So are you leaving your dog at home when you go call now?

If not why? If he is not decoying every coyote, and increasing your kill rates, then why are you still waisting your time bringing him to the field?

Since your coyotes are boogering at the sight of your dog, and it is clear that size is the determining factor of how good of a decoy dog you have, then are you looking for a new, smaller, less intimidating dog?

No, i dont have any decoy dogs, and never have, but i feel as though im qualified to ask those questions, lol.

P.S. Sure is a heck of a conversation, lots of good stuff on here, kudos to you for starting it!


Edited by Jesse lackey (04/07/12 09:12 PM)
_________________________
If our wives were more like our dogs...... There would be a lot more happy men in this world.

"six potato chips all at once? wow, guess he is gonna make a decoy dog!" hahaha just kiddin guys!

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#2197600 - 04/09/12 10:07 AM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: Jesse lackey]
knockemdown Offline
suburban redneck

Registered: 02/19/03
Posts: 4744
Loc: NY
Thanks Tony, that makes more sense.
But I still don't get how the same dog just decides to flat out kill a coyote every now & then, as you've described in several of your past posts. But that's getting off topic thread, so I digress... smile

Duane, yes, I'm figuring stuff out, as I'm sure everyone else reading along is. My MAIN objective for asking these questions is to generate dialogue, so I don't merely consider this "Fred's decoy dog learnin 101". I'm sure you're savvy enough to realize that I'm playing 'dumb' to keep within the spirit of playng devil's advocate... wink


Originally Posted By: Jesse lackey

Knockemdown, Im just curiouse here. You said that every coyote you have called in over the past year has boogered at the sight of your dog right? So are you leaving your dog at home when you go call now?


Hi Jesse.
Yes, every coyote since the end of September has flat out run away from my dog approaching and/or barking.
Yes, I have indeed left him home for a few stands in the woods.
Now, I'm leaving the dog AND myself at home now since NY's coyote season ended on 3/25 smile
Although PA remains open, I don't have near as many spots to hunt there. And I don't have the inclination to kill adult coyotes with pups in a hole somewhere, so staying home is fine by me.

Quote:

If not why? If he is not decoying every coyote, and increasing your kill rates, then why are you still waisting your time bringing him to the field?


Well, I'm not, as stated above wink

But I was trying to give the pup an honest chance to show me something during our season. As a reminder, my dog still isn't 2yrs old yet, and he actually did very well on the few coyotes that felt bold enough to approach, so naturally I wanted to see that develop.
The main 'test' is that I wanted to see for myself if our very spooky & nocturnal coyotes would be any more bold during the daytime with the presence of a dog on stand.

The answer I've been learning, is NO.

Ask anyone who tries to call coyotes here NY in the day how difficult it is and you'll very quickly begin to realize that I'm dealing with my own set of circumstances. That said, finding out how a dog might/might not work here was intruiging, so I wanted to give it a shot.

I would like to point out that I did NOT buy a "decoy dog" pup. Rather, I did alot of research on breeds and chose a pup that ideally would be an all around hunting/companion dog for me. Luckily, he's proven to be that, and then some!!! So the fact that our coyotes don't want to play with him on stand only stinks very little.
I could always travel to hunt with any of my friends around the country & prolly show him more coyotes in a week's time than he sees here all year.
But for now, I'm quite happy seeing him do this, 365days a year, without fail...




SO I honestly didn't have any illusions of grandeur about running a 'decoy dog' here in NY. It was just a fun project I've been trying out. And, for the record, I don't think anyone else's 'decoy dog' would have enjoyed much better success. After all, how can a dog get to 'decoying' a coyote that is ultra spooky to begin with AND conditioned to take off for the next county at the first sight of dog???
If anyone could 'splain otherwise, I'm all ears!!!


Quote:

Since your coyotes are boogering at the sight of your dog, and it is clear that size is the determining factor of how good of a decoy dog you have, then are you looking for a new, smaller, less intimidating dog?


I don't think size is THE determining factor in how good a decoy dog can be. If size where the factor, as you stated above, then wouldn't everyone on the board be running 15 lb. decoy dogs?

To answer in more detail, I honestly felt I could get away with a fair sized (40-50 lb.)dog here in NY. Remember, my coyotes are dang near twice the size of a desert coyote, and my cur actually appears 'smaller' than the scale would prove. An adult coyote looks friggin' HUGE next to him!

And to take it one step further, NY and PA have more & more guys running coyotes than ever before. You're a member of Matt's board & can see that for yourself. In this past year alone, there have been several different groups of hound hunters running trailhounds in my 'honey hole' areas where I call. Yes, they have permission and no I don't want to stop them, that's just how it is.

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out how just one negative interaction with a pack of hounds will learn a coyote up QUICK as to how it reacts to seeing a dog in the woods. Despite KNOWING that, I still wanted to give my dog a shot, so I've brought him along to find out the hard way.
So call me an idiot for trying... wink

I'm [beeep] sure not getting a JRT to feed to our coyotes just to find out though! Even an African JRT!!! blush And I don't think that a 20-35 lb. dog would magically be the answer to getting these coyotes to commit. Could be, but I doubt it...


Quote:
No, i dont have any decoy dogs, and never have, but i feel as though im qualified to ask those questions, lol.

No you don't.
So go back & sit in the corner with kirby, w00t (just kiddin' wink )

Quote:
P.S. Sure is a heck of a conversation, lots of good stuff on here, kudos to you for starting it!


thanks, that was the whole idea!!!

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#2197637 - 04/09/12 11:44 AM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: knockemdown]
DTOM Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 11/24/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Far from the crowds
You are missing out on the best decoy action of all year by sitting out spring and summer. It's what a decoy dog is all about.

Tough making a decoy dog out of any dog if you don't get out and put numbers of coyotes in front of it. 10-20 a year is not going to do it. If you don't have the numbers where you live you will have to drive to get to them or accept that your dog may never make a very good decoy dog. Not due to any short comming of the dog, but due to you not doing your part.

There is no magic in coyote hunting and esp. not in a decoy dog. It is truely a numbers game. Could you make a field trial bird dog only showing it 12 birds a year? Probably not. The truth is most guys will never use a decoy dog how they are supposed to be used. Denning. It's too tough and too hot and too many other thing to do that time of year so it gets put on the back burner. Thats fine, but you can't go around thinking if I can't do it no one can because a few of us do and we MAKE it work by putting our own hard work and time and money into making a decoy dog a decoy dog not just a hunting buddy that scares off coyotes or sits at your side and then goes and rags a dead coyote a few time a year.

This is one of the reasons I think flooding the market with "decoy dogs" is not the right thing to do. Most guys won't use them how they are meant to be utilized or when they are most effective.

Just my opinion from watching no one have an idea what decoy dogs are 10 years ago to now when just about every guy has or wants one to increase his numbers. I got news for you a dog just isn't going to do it by itself. You are a team and YOU must put some into it to get any out of it.

Tim
_________________________
Keep on charging the enemy so long as there is life.

Dont Tread On Me

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#2197711 - 04/09/12 02:01 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: knockemdown]
doggin coyotes Offline
PM Junkie

Registered: 02/18/02
Posts: 10539
Loc: Colorado
"What makes a coyote chase a dog?"

I'm thinking steak bones around the neck, Oscar Meyer wieners around the middle and [beeep] in heat smeared under tail section outta do it.
_________________________
Colorado has smelled like one big azz brush fire every since 1-1-14.

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#2197724 - 04/09/12 02:25 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: doggin coyotes]
Oregon310 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 05/29/08
Posts: 1415
Loc: Sumpter, Oregon
Originally Posted By: doggin coyotes
"What makes a coyote chase a dog?"

I'm thinking steak bones around the neck, Oscar Meyer wieners around the middle and [beeep] in heat smeared under tail section outta do it.


I want one of Duane's dog's, but for now I think the 100 pound or more lab in this video is just my speed. He uses doggin's method & doesn't even have to leave the yard.

http://youtu.be/CvrGxR9aLTY

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#2197728 - 04/09/12 02:35 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: DTOM]
knockemdown Offline
suburban redneck

Registered: 02/19/03
Posts: 4744
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: DTOM
You are missing out on the best decoy action of all year by sitting out spring and summer. It's what a decoy dog is all about.

Tough making a decoy dog out of any dog if you don't get out and put numbers of coyotes in front of it. 10-20 a year is not going to do it. If you don't have the numbers where you live you will have to drive to get to them or accept that your dog may never make a very good decoy dog. Not due to any short comming of the dog, but due to you not doing your part.

There is no magic in coyote hunting and esp. not in a decoy dog. It is truely a numbers game. Could you make a field trial bird dog only showing it 12 birds a year? Probably not. The truth is most guys will never use a decoy dog how they are supposed to be used. Denning. It's too tough and too hot and too many other thing to do that time of year so it gets put on the back burner. Thats fine, but you can't go around thinking if I can't do it no one can because a few of us do and we MAKE it work by putting our own hard work and time and money into making a decoy dog a decoy dog not just a hunting buddy that scares off coyotes or sits at your side and then goes and rags a dead coyote a few time a year.

This is one of the reasons I think flooding the market with "decoy dogs" is not the right thing to do. Most guys won't use them how they are meant to be utilized or when they are most effective.

Just my opinion from watching no one have an idea what decoy dogs are 10 years ago to now when just about every guy has or wants one to increase his numbers. I got news for you a dog just isn't going to do it by itself. You are a team and YOU must put some into it to get any out of it.

Tim



Tim, I'm well aware of when "prime time" is.
And I agree with every word in your post, 100%
Thank you!

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#2197735 - 04/09/12 02:54 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: knockemdown]
kirby Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 7902
Loc: nowheresville
Gee thanks Fred, for sitting me in a corner? In all of this jabber laugh laugh

Heck I only chimed in cuz (according to some?) dogs iz coyotes & coyotes iz dogs. Et aahs be-uns around bote fur a long tame grin

Speaking of which sure size does matter to some coyotes but not all of them. Side note; Iffen I were to fetch me a decoy dog to hunt coyotes wit. Aaahs be a picken me won in the 25-40 lb range. Rather than some big ole grizz dog. Most coyotes iz cowards, unless they be a toting back-up family group members.

Size-up, size-up, dat what dey do.
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retired

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#2197928 - 04/09/12 09:14 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: kirby]
Jesse lackey Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/28/09
Posts: 1909
Loc: Michigan. Go Blue
Fred, i wasnt trying to jab at you, and i appreciate the honest answers, But you answered them just as i figured you would, and thats just what i was hoping for.

I dont mean to put words into your mouth or anything, but from what i understand, you wanted a dog to be your companion, so you got one, but an important part of that companiouship was hunting. You knew that from the start, so you made a great choice in picking a very versatile dog that should fill about any need.

The guy in the original post obviously didnt base his decision in dogs on hunting being a real gole. But, his priorities seem to be changing, and he wants to incorporate the dog that he already has into more of his activities.

Does anyone really think this horse of a dog is going to be a great decoy dog, or even ever decoy one single coyote? i sure dont, but im all for spending time in the field with dogs. I take a dog with me when im going to fix a fence. I know the dog isnt going to help me fix the fence, but i like having her there!

I see your point, and i understand, but i dont think anyone was giving him any falce hope, or ideas about just what his dog would do.

This has turned into a great discussion, and lots of good info is being shared, but you have made it clear that it is a direct result of the horse dog thread, and how it was handled. Just keep in mind that lots of us, including you i assume, think that anything can be made better by throwing a dog in it, and would never try to convince someone not to spend time with their dog whenever they can.

Hope im not coming off as a jack azz, or like im calling you out or anything, because im not, just trying to play "Devil's Advocate"
_________________________
If our wives were more like our dogs...... There would be a lot more happy men in this world.

"six potato chips all at once? wow, guess he is gonna make a decoy dog!" hahaha just kiddin guys!

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#2198035 - 04/09/12 11:45 PM Re: What makes a coyote chase a dog? [Re: Jesse lackey]
Duane@ssu Offline
Retired moderator

Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 4095
Loc: Gods Country
DTOM SURE MADE A GREAT POST!!!!!!!!!
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"IF YOU'RE GONNA TALK SMART,YOU BETTER RIDE A FAST HORSE"








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