Patterdale & Jagd Terriers For Coons & Badgers

B

Bandadog

New member
Anyone using the Patterdale Terrier, Jagd (German Hunt) Terrier or crosses for working Coons and Badgers in old abandoned houses, barns, brush piles, and rock outcroppings creating good dens? I know the little ones can work underground very well, but the trend appears to be switching to bigger dogs for above the ground work..... A friend and I are working on a harder dog by injecting some American Pit Bull Terrier blood, who still has a good nose, that will go to tree for Coons...... Would like to communicate with anyone working with these Terriers, even if your goals are different. Thanks, Bandadog.
 
Howdy Guys, Got a couple sites for you to review some pics of Jagds. Will put pics of mine on when I get time to mess with it.
http://knitehunt.homestead.com/knitehuntpictures2.html
http://www.dbthorses.com/jagd.htm
http://gjtca.homestead.com/
These are some of the sites I reviewed before I bought my dogs. Yes, I know what you mean about getting hell when they get chewed up a bit. Then the wife and Daughter think I am meanest guy around but my dogs love me. Shot three coons out of a tree the other nite and the young bitch was on them in a heartbeat. The older dog knows when he hears the shot it's mostly over and he has to look for fun somewhere else. Collie was being afraid of the 22 shots that nite. I am gonna have to work w/her carefully to get her over that. The male,OOPS Taz is a friends dog,Pyro ate the neighbors cat right after I brought him home. Slipped his collar when he fell over the railing he was standing on looking for the cat, went right thru the cat door and nailed it. The old cat had been teasing him just out of his reach for about a week. My wife heard it and raced over,,broke it up. But Pyro had put a serious hurt on the old cat. It died and I got to pay $500 vet bill after all was said and done. Just glad the gal was a great neighbor and friend and didn't want to SUE me or something else . She knew dog was just doing what it is trained to do and she is a Wyoming ranch girl. The dogs worked well on a couple fox I put them on that were killing chickens at one clients place,after I'd trapped them. I need to get them working trails to find the problem varmints I put them on. All in good time I guess.Pup Collie is now one yr. He is 4 and really buddying up to me now since I started bringing him in every eve for a while. Figured I'd do that so I can recall him better and get him to work closer and pay attention to my recall whistle.
Keep huntin Guys,
Ken
 
I love hunting with terriers almost as much as I enjoy calling coyotes. For me that’s saying something. You have to remember a couple of things when you are choosing a terrier. First of all a 25 lb coon can get into tighter places than a 15lb dog can. That can be a problem if you are hunting with jagds as they will all mature out at 18 to 22lbs or heavier. On the flip side if you go with a 15lb Patterdale on a 25lb coon he will likely fight the coon but you will run a HIGH risk of putting him out of hunting condition for a couple of weeks due to injury. I am sure that you have a much smaller coon in Texas than we do here in Nebraska but they are still capable of tearing up a dog especially in the ground.
I don’t want to tell you what to do but if you want a gritty dog that will tree, get a cur. Black Mouth Curs are known for their grittiness. Personally I would try a Mountain View Cur. This line of cur seems to produce a very high percentage of tree dogs. If I lived out of town I would have one.
Ideally for serious coon hunting I would want a setup of about six dogs. I would want a couple of curs for all of the treeing work. I would want a pair of jagds to trail, locate and barn hunt. Jagds could also be used for a lot of groundwork and would be ideally suited for flood arrogation pipes and head gates. Lastly I would want a couple of JRTs or Patterdales or one of each to take care of all of the tighter spots where the Jagds couldn’t fit.

Jagds are ferocious fighters with an outstanding nose. I would take a hard look at a Jagdterrier if I were you. Also with any of these dogs there would be no need to introduce APBT blood, as they are all bread for a specific purpose. That out cross would only take away hunting qualities.

A good and hard Jagdterrier can kill a high percentage of coons by its self and there is no coon on earth that can withstand two of them. I am by no means suggesting that you let your dogs kill coons. I am just telling you what they are capable of. It is in your, your dogs and the coons best interest to finish the fight as quickly and humanly as possible. I use my dogs as fur harvesting tools and I take care of them well. A tore up dog does me no good and should be avoided as much as possible. I kill my coons as quickly as I can to save my dogs and the coon any unnecessary abuse. The fresher your dogs are the more you can hunt them. If you let them blow their load on the first coon of the day he will not be near as efficient on the next one opening himself up to a greater risk of injury or even death. Also if your dogs are over worked with soar faces they will become less aggressive and may even turn into bay dogs.

I know a couple of good breeders of both the Jagdterriers and the Patterdales. E-mail me if you are interested. wagoner@prairieweb.com

Good hunting.

Q,
 
Q-wagoner, by the way that was a snappy pic on other list serv of your JRT with the coon,did he kill it by himself?or did he do the trackin/treein? Yes,I can imagine a 6olb Jagd /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif .Might have to have them on a logging chain to contain them. My two jagds will have their way with a coon now and I think when my pup matures more they will be unbeatable in their size range. A fox I put them on was fast and chewed some holes in them but was shy for weight against them,but pup was too young to really help in the kill.
Bandadog, They have a airdale/Jagd cross in germany I think that runs about 30-40 lbs and is a real hard,good looking dog for heavier game. seen pics on web some where if I see again I'll bring them back here to show ya. I'm staying w/about a 20-25 lb dog as I want to be able to run in attics w/them and work some culverts/pipes down to about 8".From what I hear they'll take on anything for size as they use their speed to stay away from them. Scott Phillips in Utah runs an Airdale/cross(I think W/jagds)for decoying coyotes to the gun.Seen his dog.good looking.
later, Ken
 
VarmitBuster, Scott’s Airedale cross was with a JRT. It was an accidental breeding by a retired state trapper in South Dakota. The dogs name is stubby and was used in the video Dogin Coyotes. From what I hear several of the dogs that came out of the same litter were used as decoy dogs and worked out exceptionally well. Odon Corr was the breeder and tried to sell the pups at first but they were considered mongrels at the time so he ended up giving them away. He told me that he has been offered good money for pups of the same breeding. I think he may have done it but his male JRT was killed.

Edit: No my dog didn't kill that coon. It was just taken for an article I wrote for the Fur Taker Magazine about terriers and terrier hunting.

Good hunting.

Q,
 
Hello All-This is my first time to the site, and I noticed this post. I have hunted terriers (Jagds, Fells, Airedales and crosses of each) on fox, coon, badger and coyote. I also hunt Coon, Lion and Bear with a Leopard Cur and AiredaleX. The Jagds are probably the most versatile of the terriers in my opinion. They can get into alot of spots that hold game, and usually have plenty of grit when they get there. They also tend to be more open on track, and seem to have a better nose than the other terriers. I like the temperment of the Fells(Patterdales) and Airedales better than the Jagds, but if I could have only one terrier for that type hunting I would go with the Jagd.
A terrier site you might want to check out is www.terriercentral.com it is dedicated to the terrier hunters, and has plenty of photos of the dogs and their game. Take care.
 
I'm also looking at the Treeing Feist, the strains of Mtn. Cur that are tree dogs, and the Blue Lacy, which is part Coyote, part Greyhound, and part Scent Hound..... Looking to put together a smaller pack of Coon Dogs, in the 20-35 pound range..... Also heard of a Jagd Terrier x Patterdale Terrier that was supposed to be a great worker..... Not too much earth work here due to heavy clay, so most Coons go to tree..... I've never worked a Treeing Feist, but they sound like very good tree dogs. Thanks a lot for the informative post, as I work my way toward a decision on the breeds of Dogs to use on mainly Coons, and will be looking forward to more.
 
Bandadog-I dont think most the Feists would have enough grit to work Badger or pull coon from under buildings/slashpiles. The Curs would probably be better for that type hunting and will tree. The Jagds are super for that type hunting. We use the Jagd/Patterdale(Fell) cross and like it alot. Just a suggestion, in Full Cry Glenn Overstreet advertised some pups in the squirrel dog section in the back. They are a Stephens Cur male bred to a Jagd/Patterdale bitch. He is giving them away. I know a fella that had a Stephens/Jagd male and said he was a super. A dog like that might be just what your looking for. I know if I didnt have so many, I would be after one myself. Goodluck. Take care.
 
Originally posted by Bandadog:
[qb]Anyone using the Patterdale Terrier, Jagd (German Hunt) Terrier or crosses for working Coons and Badgers in old abandoned houses, barns, brush piles, and rock outcroppings creating good dens? I know the little ones can work underground very well, but the trend appears to be switching to bigger dogs for above the ground work..... A friend and I are working on a harder dog by injecting some American Pit Bull Terrier blood, who still has a good nose, that will go to tree for Coons...... Would like to communicate with anyone working with these Terriers, even if your goals are different. Thanks, Bandadog.[/qb]
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Originally posted by Rimshot:
[qb]
Originally posted by Bandadog:
[qb]Anyone using the Patterdale Terrier, Jagd (German Hunt) Terrier or crosses for working Coons and Badgers in old abandoned houses, barns, brush piles, and rock outcroppings creating good dens? I know the little ones can work underground very well, but the trend appears to be switching to bigger dogs for above the ground work..... A friend and I are working on a harder dog by injecting some American Pit Bull Terrier blood, who still has a good nose, that will go to tree for Coons...... Would like to communicate with anyone working with these Terriers, even if your goals are different. Thanks, Bandadog.[/qb]
Click to expand...
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Sorry about the two posts before this one by me I had a hard time figuring this out. I am from Wyoming where my dad and I hunt lions and coon occasionly. I had a Jagdterrier for many years and he was a dog with no end. He would very rarely give up. When lion hunting we run Black and Tans and the terrier would have a tough time keeeping up in the deep snow and rock piles. When it came to the coons, by himself he couldn't kill a medium-sized coon. He would hold it but just didn't have the power to do anything by himself. When we were to run him in a group of dogs he was very good at figuring things out when the track was lost and was always right in the middle of everything. If you are going to buy one I would suggest finding buying from someone that does not claim to have only German blood-lines (just think about how many dogs one would have only from germany to have in order to not inbreed them). Not saying this to be impossible, but hard to do and easy to cheat on. The magazine where I bought my pup is called Full Cry, a great magaznie devoted to the houndsman.
Overall I would highly recommend this breed for what it sounds like you want to do, but no matter what some people will say it does matter TO A POINT, the size of the fight in the dog but that toss will always be won by the sized dog. If ones buys a dog of this breed acknowledge its limitations and get it for the job it can accomplish. Good luck and happy hunting.
 
Rimshot, the Jagdterrier you bought wasn’t a Glover dog was it? I have heard that he has or had a heck of a puppy factory going for a while. I am sure he produced some good dogs but with the volume of pups he sold I don’t think quality control was up to par. I guess I don’t understand why it couldn’t handle medium sized coons. I have seen viedo of a jagd crushing a 15 lb coon in seconds. The coon popped out of some bales in a loft and was making a break for the window and the dog caught him, grabbed him just behind the shoulders and crushed his goodies in about three bights. The jagd was a little on the heavy side. I think it was about a 24lb female.

Good hunting.

Q,
 
Q-Glover died a while back, but sold what was left of his kennel to 2 fellas in WA state. They have since broken up their partnership and sell seperately. Glover started with some good dogs(Theils German imports)and the stuff from his early breedings and maintained from those dogs are the best IMO. The newer Glover dogs I have seen have tended to be more slick coated and larger than the original stuff. Now alot of folks love the larger size and slick coats of the newer version, so its not a drawback for them, I pointed it out just to show what I see as the differance in the new vs. old Glover stock. The "German" stock I have seen tends to be harder than the "American" stock but was also more independant, and more dog/man aggressive. The "American" stock tends to be larger, more open and some even show to be tree minded, but most are not as hard or as earthminded. The best place to get Jagds in the U.S. in my opinion, is from the govt hunters that use them for ADC work. You know they are hunted, their living depends on it, and the different lines I have seen from the ADC folks is usually a blend of the Old Glover and "German" stuff. Take care.
 
UphillDock, I heard that Glover died but I was unaware that the two fellows that bought him out split the sheets. I think that Glover and the guys from Washington purposely bread bigger; leggier dogs for more trail and tree work? I don’t know. I don’t keep up on those kinds of things too much.

I know of some ADC guys that use them. Grawe, Phillips and North are a few that I know of. I have heard of a couple of others but I can’t recall the names right now. I think Phillips has some good dogs. His original female is a Grawe dog and I think it is still his best. He bought a high dollar finished dog (Snuffy I think) that was fantastic but he lost it. I am not sure where that dog came from. Phillips has killed as high as 800 coons in a year with traps, snares and dogs. I am not sure how all the percentages work out but you can rest assured his dogs get worked.

Cal; Merv had the dog. I think he got him when he was still living in SD. I don’t know why he sold him. I think that he is now sold on curs??

Good hunting.

Q
 
Q-Waggoner,
I think that Merv uses mostly mountain curs but I haven't seen his dogs lately so who knows what he's using. I hunt with Murphy alot and he has two older mountain curs (one is the dog he calls Ki in the doggin coyotes video) and he has a brindle cur pup. I have a Dorn dog and a cur-rat terrier cross. The two older dogs of Murphy's are white and I think some of Merv's are also.
 
Q-I know North and have heard good things about Grawes dogs, I dont know of Phillips, but he is probably not this far west. I bought a bitch from North and am very happy with her and her offspring. Her blood comes from other western Govt hunters Rushane, Robinson, Kennedy. You are right about the govt hunters dogs getting hunted. If its got hair and a heartbeat, its fair game...LOL I also hear good things about the "German/Croatian" dogs that Goran has/uses. I know some folks dont get along with him well, but I have been told by knowledgable folks that hunted with him, that he is a serious hunter and accepts only the best in his dogs. The dogs I have seen and heard about that came down from his dogs, have all been as intense and hard as any earthdog I have ever seen. We have had good luck with the Jagd/Fell crosses for above/below ground work. Take care.
 
UphillDoc, I almost bought a dog from North a few years ago but didn’t. I have been in contact with Goran C for quite a while and would prefer one of his dogs or an import. Goran may not be liked by some but he has always been very accommodating to me and has always went out of his way to help me with any questions. Originally I believe he is Croatian by birth and I don’t think that a lot of us westerners understand his culture or language barriers. I don’t think he means to come off in the manor that he does some times. He is very adamant that his dogs and any true A.D.J.C dog must be tested before breading. This of course takes forever and very few handlers here in the states are willing to fly over the pond to get them tested. I haven’t heard anything yet but I knew that they were trying to get some official judges over here to test some dogs but I don’t think it panned out. I don’t know. I am not as up on the situation as I was a year ago.

Nevertheless an imported dog is still a little more than I want to spend at this time. If it was a GSP or English pointer it wouldn’t bother me but the toughest critter they would see is a grouse. LOL Jagds were made and bread for full contact sports and I don’t want to drop that much coin on a dog that runs the possibility of getting offed its first time out.

Out of curiosity why did you cross a Fell with a Jagd? What advantage could you gain with that cross? I see Marty S from Iowa wants to do that breading as well but I don’t understand the motivation. I got a nice little male Patterdale from Marty that is 8 months now. He is looking sharp but is still all pup.

Good hunting.

Q,
 
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