17 hornet vs 17 fireball
- Thread starter Tjkiller
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Coyotejunki
Well-known member
Uses less powder, so you can shoot more at a prairie dog town before the barrel gets hot.
Significant advantage over the fireball, not sure if it is significant?
Significant advantage over the fireball, not sure if it is significant?
Coyotejunki
Well-known member
I would guess the 17 hornet uses about 12 grains of powder compared to 18grns for the fireball.
Coyotejunki
Well-known member
I look at the 17 Hornet as a colony varmint cartridge. In that light, I don't see the need for an extra 100 foot pounds of energy on a 2-3 pound critter.
I would use it on fox or cats, but would want more for coyotes, like the 17 FB.
Rustydust
Active member
I was thinking that I wanted one of those .17 Hornets at first, but now I'm not so sure.
Not to mention the cost of a new rifle, but new dies and brass too. Quite a few hundred dollars here.
Just like I can load my .17 Remmy down to .17 FB levels, I can load it down to .17 Hornet as well. Pretty easy to do too. When you drop the pressures down this far your brass life more than doubles, and at least with my gun, accuracy stays wonderful. I have taken boocoos of ground squirrels with 10 grains of Blue Dot with the 20 grain Vmax.
Be fun to have another .17 centerfire, but when I weigh in all the plusses and minuses, it's just not thrilling me all that much after all.
Not to mention the cost of a new rifle, but new dies and brass too. Quite a few hundred dollars here.
Just like I can load my .17 Remmy down to .17 FB levels, I can load it down to .17 Hornet as well. Pretty easy to do too. When you drop the pressures down this far your brass life more than doubles, and at least with my gun, accuracy stays wonderful. I have taken boocoos of ground squirrels with 10 grains of Blue Dot with the 20 grain Vmax.
Be fun to have another .17 centerfire, but when I weigh in all the plusses and minuses, it's just not thrilling me all that much after all.
Orneryolfart357
New member
Im wondering about that too. How available will the new Hornet Brass be once it hits the market? Are the Guys that buy the rifle gonna buy the brass as soon as it hits the shelves? 22 Hornets have been around forever, and maybe the brass is more available? If thats the case, then maybe the extra steps it takes to produce Ackley 17 Hornet brass would pay off? Just thoughts...
Blackhawk43
New member
I would think comparing it to the fireball, no there is no advantage, however it would be quite the improvment to the 17 HMR.
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Rustydust
Active member
Originally Posted By: Blackhawk43I would think comparing it to the fireball, no there is no advantage, however it would be quite the improvment to the 17 HMR.
That seems to be an accurate statement. I have taken prairie dogs as far as 200 yards with a 17 grain .17 HMR and they killed the pooches on the spot. But shoot the same size dog with a wee bit heavier bullet and another 1300 fps and not only does it kill on the spot, but it kills on that spot, and that spot, and that spot and so on.There will be spots of what used to be a sod dog all over the place. Much bigger splat factor. God forgive me, I have muzzle brakes put on my varmint rifles just to what small furry critters explode into little pink and red pieces.
That seems to be an accurate statement. I have taken prairie dogs as far as 200 yards with a 17 grain .17 HMR and they killed the pooches on the spot. But shoot the same size dog with a wee bit heavier bullet and another 1300 fps and not only does it kill on the spot, but it kills on that spot, and that spot, and that spot and so on.There will be spots of what used to be a sod dog all over the place. Much bigger splat factor. God forgive me, I have muzzle brakes put on my varmint rifles just to what small furry critters explode into little pink and red pieces.
Furhunter
New member
Originally Posted By: Orneryolfart357Im wondering about that too. How available will the new Hornet Brass be once it hits the market? Are the Guys that buy the rifle gonna buy the brass as soon as it hits the shelves? 22 Hornets have been around forever, and maybe the brass is more available? If thats the case, then maybe the extra steps it takes to produce Ackley 17 Hornet brass would pay off? Just thoughts...
Grant,
It's not rocket science to make your own 17H brass from 22H brass just like those of us that have been shooting the AH version have done for years now. If one was worried about availability, stock up now on 22H brass so you can form your own as its dirt simple to do.
If I didn't already have the AH I would opt for the Hornady version for a single reason, cost of the dies. Velocity difference between the two is negligible really but Hornadys 17H dies should be hitting the market at around 60 bucks. Redding is the only manufacture of AH dies and they will set ones budget back by 200 frog skins. 140 dollars will buy lots of 22H brass you can neck down and fire form.
Grant,
It's not rocket science to make your own 17H brass from 22H brass just like those of us that have been shooting the AH version have done for years now. If one was worried about availability, stock up now on 22H brass so you can form your own as its dirt simple to do.
If I didn't already have the AH I would opt for the Hornady version for a single reason, cost of the dies. Velocity difference between the two is negligible really but Hornadys 17H dies should be hitting the market at around 60 bucks. Redding is the only manufacture of AH dies and they will set ones budget back by 200 frog skins. 140 dollars will buy lots of 22H brass you can neck down and fire form.
Blackhawk43
New member
Hornady dies are listed on Cabela's web-site for 32.99.
Orneryolfart357
New member
Good point Darby... $140 would buy a little brass.
jdunham
New member
Should be interesting to see how the round does commercially.
No real advantage in owning a 17HH over a 17FB. Of course it looks like there will be more companies making rifles in 17HH than there are making 17FB rifles. Unfortunately Remington has screwed up the commercial future of another one of it's cartridges.
No real advantage in owning a 17HH over a 17FB. Of course it looks like there will be more companies making rifles in 17HH than there are making 17FB rifles. Unfortunately Remington has screwed up the commercial future of another one of it's cartridges.
For the record. Lee custom services will make a collet neck sizer and seating die set for the 17AH for 60 bucks and shipping of 4.95 custom made to YOUR fired brass and chamber. I have a set coming. Custom services is found on their website in the sidebar at the bottom.
You can even get a crimp die for the 17AH....if you wanted.
CH4D also makes a full range of dies for the 17AH.
http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/dies/groups
Forming wise there is also a 17/20 double ended reducing die available for 50 bucks online as well or at least one is shown if site is up/running and updated.
http://shop.reedsammo.com/product.sc?productId=1850&categoryId=121
Not going to be a large difference from the 17HH and 17AH, especially if someone wants to custom chamber a better than factory barrel, but there will be some, IMO.
Most 17AH guns you find are tight chambered, custom lead tack driving SOBs capable of velocites over the Hodgdon data info by some measure without pressure signs.
The "handiness" of the 17HH may be an advantage but odds of someone "AI"ing it right off the bat are pretty danged HIGH IMO. lol
NOT saying I wont buy a 17HH.....if the price is right but just now purchasing a custom wood/custom barreled/chambered fluted SS 17AH.......I think Ill not give it up for "easier" brass.
Like many things......the more you put into something, the more satisfaction you receive from it. Making brass is something I look forward to, not regret doing.
Im sure someone or many will compare the two right off the jump this fall when CZ comes out with the supposed 527 version
Might even be me......*grin*.
IMHO......the 17 FB in a faster twist and 30 grain bullets (or more) would be a slightly most costly to load, longer range round for coyotes or the like. Under 200 yards..(or maybe a bit more)...with either round and the proper bullet..dead is dead. Past that the 17FB would take charge, if you need the range. Nothing is free, more powder, more noise, more muzzle jump (in a light rifle) both the 17FB and 17Rem are longer range guns. Only the shooter can decide if the need is there. More barrel wear as well. Ive seen several reports of 7-8000 rounds in the 17AH guns and still tack drivers. Tough for me to accept that would happen MUCH in the higher capacity 17s.
Me......Im going 20 cal for longer range. Just an excuse to buy/build another rifle this summer. hehe
God Bless
You can even get a crimp die for the 17AH....if you wanted.
CH4D also makes a full range of dies for the 17AH.
http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/dies/groups
Forming wise there is also a 17/20 double ended reducing die available for 50 bucks online as well or at least one is shown if site is up/running and updated.
http://shop.reedsammo.com/product.sc?productId=1850&categoryId=121
Not going to be a large difference from the 17HH and 17AH, especially if someone wants to custom chamber a better than factory barrel, but there will be some, IMO.
Most 17AH guns you find are tight chambered, custom lead tack driving SOBs capable of velocites over the Hodgdon data info by some measure without pressure signs.
The "handiness" of the 17HH may be an advantage but odds of someone "AI"ing it right off the bat are pretty danged HIGH IMO. lol
NOT saying I wont buy a 17HH.....if the price is right but just now purchasing a custom wood/custom barreled/chambered fluted SS 17AH.......I think Ill not give it up for "easier" brass.
Like many things......the more you put into something, the more satisfaction you receive from it. Making brass is something I look forward to, not regret doing.
Im sure someone or many will compare the two right off the jump this fall when CZ comes out with the supposed 527 version
Might even be me......*grin*.
IMHO......the 17 FB in a faster twist and 30 grain bullets (or more) would be a slightly most costly to load, longer range round for coyotes or the like. Under 200 yards..(or maybe a bit more)...with either round and the proper bullet..dead is dead. Past that the 17FB would take charge, if you need the range. Nothing is free, more powder, more noise, more muzzle jump (in a light rifle) both the 17FB and 17Rem are longer range guns. Only the shooter can decide if the need is there. More barrel wear as well. Ive seen several reports of 7-8000 rounds in the 17AH guns and still tack drivers. Tough for me to accept that would happen MUCH in the higher capacity 17s.
Me......Im going 20 cal for longer range. Just an excuse to buy/build another rifle this summer. hehe
God Bless
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The Virginian
New member
^^^
Steve,
Welcome to PM and that was a very informative and well thought out post.
Eric
PS: My Savage 17HH is on order as soon as it hits the street.
Steve,
Welcome to PM and that was a very informative and well thought out post.
Eric
PS: My Savage 17HH is on order as soon as it hits the street.