Lion Tracks

Dogboy

New member
Ok guys need your help. Mt. Lion tracks.

Four toes and a pad? Claws or nails showing in track? I believe back feet show nails.

I've been hunting alot of years, I know nothing of Mt. Lion.

Was out walking with my dog about an hour ago, I'm always looking at the ground for coyote tracks. Toe and pad very wide.

This track was as I described above and almost 5" across. It was big to me and I had never seen one like that before.

Thanks for your help..
 
Here ya go Dogboy.....

Where were you when you found the track? This is about all you'll see of lions over here. Very rarely will they ever make their presense known....although, on a few stands out near Temecula, my hair has stood on end.

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I met one a few years ago up near Angeles Crest, walking on a trail, minding my own business and a big ol' lion sprang from a hillside down onto the trail, not sure who was more surprised...or scared, me or the cat.

Bob
 
Bob, I have read that a female's tracks will not get much bigger than 3". The largest tracks I have found were 4" or a little better. I have a book called "Cougar: Solitary Spirit" that states trsack can approach 6". Steve or Bob MC can help more on this than I can. I know you can judge the size of a cat by the length of its stride.
Bob
 
Bob/SoCal,

Excellent photo of the track, and the plaster cast is even better. Much better than the photo I show here.

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Notice the over all round shape of the track. For a size comparison, my pocket knife is 4 inches long.

To answer the question, 4 toes in the track and a large pad. The presents or absence of toenails cannot be depended upon. Ordinarily, the toe nails or claws will not show in a lion track; but if the cat is about to spring or is walking in very muddy ground they may.

Pay particular attention to the shape of the heel pad in the plaster cast. Notice the 3 dimples or protrusions at the rear of the heel print. This is the real indication of a lion track, as opposed to any large dog, ect. It can be depended upon when size and presents of toenails cannot.

Front paws are larger than the hind feet. They are the deer grabbers and meat hooks! Often when the cat is walking it will place its rear feet directly in the prints made by the front feet, and it will appear as a double track.
 
Well fellas I think I got a Lion in my area for sure. It was muddy for most of the tracks I saw, about 2 days old.

Bob, good plaster cast picture, you should of been a cop, LOL!!

Well there big and I sure haven't seen any dog that large in my area. I know that the lions are pretty aloof. Only saw one several years ago on a guys roof in Rancho Cucamonga when all of us had it surrounded.

Needless to say it bothered me alittle, but if it's a lion its probably not going to bother us here much.

Thanks much guys...........
 
Thanks for the info BobR and Bob Mc....I'll throw together some casts and post them when I find some. They aren't too hard to find out here.

Dogboy? Were you part of that team that lassoed that lion in Rancho? We've had a couple sneak into the neighborhoods in East Yorba Linda on occasion...we'd just call Animal Control and they'd bring their little dart guns.

Bob Mc: is there any fact to ageing a lion by the size of the print?

Bob
 
Bob,

East Yorba Linda? Lions? I visit Yorba Linda about 4 times a year. Maybe I should bring my rifle! Hunting lions there would be a lot better way to kill time than watching HBO in my hotel room or browsing Border's Bookstore!
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Think anyone would notice if I did a little calling in Yorba Linda Regional Park? The noise from the freeway would probably drown out the noise of the gunfire! LOL

Doug


Originally posted by Bob/SoCal:
We've had a couple sneak into the neighborhoods in East Yorba Linda on occasion...we'd just call Animal Control and they'd bring their little dart guns.
Bob
 
Yes Bob I was there for that circus. The whole city rolled, guns, artillery etc.

3 news helicopters, Sheriff helicopter, news crews, ground troops, you would of thought we had Osama Bin Laden cornered.

It was at the time we had a few attacks of folks in the Orange County area if you remember, so folks got scared real easy.

I was the only hunter in the large array of cops there. It was funny to watch. Fish & Game came out and shot her in the butt with a dart. They took her far away somewhere and turned her loose.

She was just sleeping on the roof when a 6 year old boy spotted her and went in and told his dad, "daddy, kitty on the roof", tugging on his dads arm, he did this several times, before dad went outside and looked up and "crapped his pants".

It was the funniest story to hear the dad tell it, then see the little guy standing there.

One of my most memorable stories.
 
Bob So/Cal,

If there is a way to age a lion by its track, I am not familiar with it. I have heard 1 or 2 old time lion hunters claim that they could. I'm still in touch with a couple of these fellows, and I owe one or both of them a letter. I'll ask them about it.
 
Lion tracks can run from 3 to 6 inches wide. Most will be around 4 to 4 1/2 inches wide. When you find a 5 incher, you have a 150 to180 pound lion. A 6 incher will usually be over 200 pounds. My last client just took a 160 pound lion that made a track 4 3/4 wide. This lion was a little different in that it was a long and lankey cat. She will rug out at just under 8 feet, nose to tail. I called another one in a few weeks ago that would go about the same size. His track was much larger, about 5 1/4 inches. Proof that some cats just have big feet and some have little feet. Bobcats feet will run the same way. I dont think you could age a cat by its foot size, but I belive the stride could tell you alot about how big it is. Very rare to see any toenails in a lion track. If he were running uphill, the hind feet would leave a toenail imprint, but it would be rare to see one on the front foot.
Steve

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www.azpredatorhunts.com

[This message has been edited by Steve Craig (edited 01-06-2002).]
 
Thanks Steve and Bob, excellent info. I'm wondering if theirs a size difference in differing ecosystems. Are the lions larger lets say in the southwest, (Arizona, New Mexico) than their counterparts in the west, or can a lion reach that 200lb size anywhere they're found?


vintagemxr: So you know the area eh? Those hills around Brea and Yorba Linda are quickly becoming populated. The area around So. Orange County is growing beyond belief, they wonder why human/wildlife interaction is becoming more common place. I'm sure you'd attract attention gunning for a Mountain Lion out here...it's still, unbelievably, illegal.
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Dogboy: I remember that episode quite clear, all the instances of cougar related sightings out here are for a reason. Like the comment I made above, we're driving them from their homes. In the late 60's, we had lions no more than maybe a mile from where I live now, in the hills north of Brea. I remember as a kid gunning for anything I could find with a BB gun and running across tracks in the Santa Ana Hills. We had reports of lion even getting into the northern most neighborhoods where my parents set up shop. Coyotes still roam, but the lions I imagine have all but disappeared.


Anyway, thanks for all the info and good post Dogboy.

Bob
 
SoCal Bob,

I have never known anyone who could age lions by the size of the tracks. If it can be done with any consistancy it would have to be someone who has tracked,treed,and killed lots of lions. Like Steve said track size can vary somewhat with different cats. Kind of like foot size in people. Big tracks though are a good indication of at least a good sized cat though. I'm not really sure what part of the country produces the biggest cats. This part of north central Idaho has put lots of big cats into the record book but I think the large wilderness areas make it possible for lions to get old and large. 200 pound lions are kind of like seven foot tall people few and far between but they are there.

Due to snow conditions around here I have found the stride length to be a good indicator of lion size. Hold a measuring tape on the front of the track. Measure to the front of the second track back. If you get 34" or less it is a small lion. 38" is a decent sized young tom or large female. 41" is a good sized tom and 43"-45" is huge and you start thinking about how you might pay the taxidermist should you get lucky. These measurments need to be taken where a lion has walked on level ground. If the lion is going uphill or downhill it won't work and the lion must be walking. This isn't a science by any means and there are always exceptions but I have found it works better than trying to judge track size in powdery or melting snow. If anyone else has any information about stride length I would like to hear it.

By the way, great photos guys.

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[This message has been edited by Lonny (edited 01-07-2002).]
 
There is something that I have wondered about. I followed a large track a few years ago in 10-12" of snow. There were drag marks in the snow left by the tail. I saw the same thing New Year's day this year. I have not been off in really deep snow following a track, and I was wondering if drag marks left by the tail were any indication os size. I am gonna start carring a tape with me to measure the stride.
Bob
 
A little while back when we were discussing this topic, the question came up as to whether a person could tell the approximate age of a lion by its tracks. I readily admitted I couldn't, but I said I would ask someone who might know.

The man I went to with the question is Mike Fromhold, one of the few old time cat hunters still with us. A bunch of years ago, when the California Fish & Game Department decided to look at cougars as something other than predators, and decided they needed to be studied, Mike and his partner at the time were the 2 houndmen that were hired to track and tree the cats so they could be studied and radio collars placed on them.

Mike is in his 70's now, and hasn't hunted in a number of years due to health problems; but he hasn't forgotten much of what he learned about cats. What's more, Mike isn't the kind of guy to just look at a track. He'll get right down on his hands and knees and REALLY look at it; and he's looked at a lot of them.

Mike sent me a page of drawings and notes that he made up. I've scanned it, and posted it on a site where I have some photographs stored. Here's a link to it.
http://communities.msn.com/BackcountryRamblinwithBobMc/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=148

I'll leave the page there for awhile so that anyone interested can look at it. I imagine that one would have to look at a lot of lion tracks to notice some of the fine differences that Mike talks about; but I know I'll be paying more attention to the tracks I see in the future. Mike also points out some of the differences between cats of different species such as cougar, bobcat, jaguar, and even African lion.
 
Very interesting Bob. Thanks for getting that information and posting it for the rest of us. Mr. Fromhold sounds like he would be a very interesting man to talk to.

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