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#214758 - 03/07/01 10:43 AM Question for Steve Craig or others
MULE Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 252
Loc: Colo
Hi Steve

Hypothetical Question. Here in Colorado you can't use electronic calls for bears or lions. If you were here what sounds or calls would you use? Also how would being restricted to mouth blown calls effect the strategy you currently use?
Thanx

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Pain is just weakness leaving your body

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#214759 - 03/07/01 11:50 AM Re: Question for Steve Craig or others
azbiggame Offline
Predator Master

Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 85
Loc: henderson,nv.u.s.a.
MULE:Before the Experts write in here is my .02,Rember deer and calf elk feed most of these Large predators.Larger lungs for more distress sounds than say a small rabbit.Same sounds just more air/volumn.Same hand held calls you use on Yotes work for Lions and Bears.Longer stands are the norm,30 minutes minimum.All critters in the hills respond to hand held calls.Last weekend at a Yote Contest in Az.called in 10 head of elk to our stand with a Tally-ho.They all come to "THE SOUND"---

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#214760 - 03/07/01 01:27 PM Re: Question for Steve Craig or others
Rich Cronk Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 7135
Loc: Western Iowa
Mule,
I have very little experience in calling the big cats, but here is my best shot at your question. The biggest problem you have to overcome in calling the cats with a hand call is the fact they are honing in on the sound( which is you). Cats being very sneaky it is common for em to sneak in, look you over and leave again without your even seeing them. I believe that a decoy of some sort would help you a lot. Even a piece of fur or a feather hung out there fifty yards or so to swing in the breeze would help. One of those moto-magnets with a fawn skin stretched over it would be dandy. I'm thinking that your killer call, blown at about half way up the reed in long drawn out squalls will bring the lion's in. A good calling pardner would be a real plus for you also, because you could cover more approach routes. Good luck.

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#214761 - 03/07/01 07:10 PM Re: Question for Steve Craig or others
Steve Craig Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/09/01
Posts: 220
Loc: Cottonwood,AZ USA
Mule,
With the "strategy" I currently use, It is highly improbable that you or I could call a lion. A bear,yes, a lion no. I have a "method" that I alone developed and use to call lions, and without the WT caller it is almost impossible to call them on a consistant basis like I do now.

Having said that, I will say that for a guy with a hand call or one of the tape players, you will have your best success with lions by getting in his or her bedroom or kitchen before you ever play a note on the call. Due to the lions great range and the amount of country he covers in one night, this can be hard to do. Your best bet is to get on a fresh kill as soon as possible and work him or her from 50 to 100 yards away. Azbiggame, and Rich both gave very good advice as well.
Steve

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www.azpredatorhunts.com

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#214762 - 03/07/01 09:46 PM Re: Question for Steve Craig or others
Meats Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 42
Loc: Yelm,Wa
Steve,you are starting to sound more like a salesman for Bill all the time.That must be one magic little call he sells.

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Meats

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#214763 - 03/08/01 07:11 AM Re: Question for Steve Craig or others
Calypso Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 1707
Loc: Hondo, Texas USA
Meats,

I just hunted with Steve for a week. Yes we did call in a lion...and four bobcats, and six gray foxes. His system in unique, and you do need the WT caller to utilize it successfully. If another caller could do everything the WT does, you could use it also. Right now there isn't one out there with the ability to change sounds instantly, with the remote range, and most importantly, with the necessary sounds. I use a JS-512 very successfully, and count Gerald among my friends....but, I just ordered a WT caller to be able to use everything Steve taught me.

Good Hunting!

Bob C.

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http://home.earthlink.net/~bc50/index.html

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#214764 - 03/08/01 10:59 AM Re: Question for Steve Craig or others
Steve Craig Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/09/01
Posts: 220
Loc: Cottonwood,AZ USA
Meats,
Do you own or have you ever used a WT? Do you know how to use it properly to call lions???
If you want to take it as a "sales pitch" you are welcome to do that. I dont give a rats a$$ what you or anyone one else wants to use to call a lion. I have been accussed of being a salesman for Bill ever sinse I started using this caller. Nothing could be further from the truth!! I am a salesman for the best and most effective way to call lions on a CONSISTANT basis.This is what I teach my students and clients. If this caller allows me to do it then so be it. You live in a state that has more lions than I have here. How many lions did you call in with you toy callers? I call more lions here than some of the hound men tree each year. They have told me so. The only difference is their success rates are much better than mine. They tree the cat and the client shoots no farther than the top of the tree. My clients #1, Has to sit still for an hour or more without moving a muscle. #2 Has to be able to spot the cat after it arrives. #3 Has to hit it after they see it. This is why my kill rates are only 50%. Most men cant set still for 20 minutes let alone an hour! Most get shook up at the site of a critter that can eat them at 20 to 400 yards. I've had them miss lions broadside at 50 yards! Calypso Bob was here for just 4 days and he is a statue on a stand. And I thank him for that. I just wish others could do it as well. If this makes me a salesman for the WT then I accept it. Hell, it is the BEST caller on the market, untill someone proves me wrong. But they had better be able to call more than 23 lions in a years time to do so! I know of a guy right now that has called in more lions than me. Guess what caller he uses!! One of my students came to me for instruction and went home and called in 8 lions himself in a year. What caller do you think he uses?!!! A youg man in Washington State( first time he ever called anything in) went out and called in 3 lions in less than 2 weeks time, with just some instruction from me over the phone. Guess what caller he uses?!!!

Bob,
How did you do on Friday and Saturday? Looks like the move went well?
Steve

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www.azpredatorhunts.com

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#214765 - 03/08/01 07:46 PM Re: Question for Steve Craig or others
MULE Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 252
Loc: Colo
Hey guys,

Wether BM is an asshole or not is not the question.

Here in Colorado you are not LEGALLY allowed to use an electronic caller for bear and lions PERIOD. NO Foxpro, no wt, no js 12, no cassetes and ano cd's. No chips and no soundboards.

If I find out someone uses one when I can't I'll burn their ass for sure.

I think if guys in colorado consider the wt for lions or bears then bad idea. If you can use it in az or wa or wherever great.

Steve better watch them lawmakers in arizona. The tree huggers stopped spring bear and baitin. Electronic calls and such are next on the list for all the western states

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#214766 - 03/08/01 08:57 PM Re: Question for Steve Craig or others
Meats Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 42
Loc: Yelm,Wa
Back up buddy,I was just joking and you go and get all defensive about it.You now call my calls TOYS and I never said one bad thing about your WT.I bet Gerald doesnt consider his product a toy.And yes I called in a couar this year with my JS 512 When I was bear hunting this year.Remember the Bear contest I WON and you never came through with the prize(GREAT GUY STEVE).If you cant take a little humor I dont give a rats a$$ either.I just think it is funny how every post you make you get your plug for WT in and we have all been calling critters for years before that call was on the market.You have a good product you are using Steve but you should know if it was just the call that makes the man,What would you be without a WT.........Later

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Meats

[This message has been edited by Meats (edited 03-08-2001).]

Edited to remove an expletive - Tasha

[This message has been edited by Tasha (edited 03-09-2001).]

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#214767 - 03/08/01 10:18 PM Re: Question for Steve Craig or others
howler Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 2027
Loc: Glasgow, Mt.
Ah come on guys, are you sure you want to go down that road

I do have have a serious question about Mt. Lions, I have only seen one dead one and WOW it was huge, the front legs were absolutly massive I could'nt put my fingers (both hands) around its forearms I don't know the length measurements but I think it weighed 147 lbs gutted, How dose this compare to the lions elsewhere.

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#214768 - 03/08/01 10:54 PM Re: Question for Steve Craig or others
Wiley E Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 410
Loc: Kadoka, S.D.
Come on guys! Lets not start this here! Take it to private email and get it sorted out. Let's try to keep the language a little cleaner here too. We are trying to get kids interested in calling and we already have some reading these posts.

Meats, I knew by the winking smily guy that you were just joking in your original post. Whether intentional or not, I could also see the nerve you struck. I don't have any problem with Steve advocating the WT. As a matter of fact if it makes a caller more successful, they would be a fool not to try it. Myself included! I don't have any problem with you advocating the JS512. I appreciate both your views. I own a JS 512 but am very interested in the WT.

Even if Bill M. has rubbed some guys the wrong way, myself included, that doesn't mean that people should quit using his products. Yes, I know, I was the one who mentioned boycott and I was wrong for doing so!

Steve, You remind me a lot of me. I get pretty defensive about certain issues too.

We're all coyote callers here. Lets try to keep this a civil place to learn from. Guys, for the sake of civility here, lets choke it down or take it to private email and sort it out. Please! Thanks! Wiley E

[This message has been edited by Wiley E (edited 03-08-2001).]

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#214769 - 03/08/01 10:58 PM Re: Question for Steve Craig or others
NM Kid Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 218
Loc: Farmington NM
Hello Guys,

Howler here in Northern NM I know a few guys who run dogs. They said they wont take a cat unless he is 150 lbs or so (live weight with internals). I want to say they have killed ones bigger than that. This year the three of them filled there tags. Personally I have never seen one dead or alive. Would love to call one in, can only afford to use hand calls right now. Maybe when I get out of college I could spring for one of these electronic callers.

Chad

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#214770 - 03/09/01 03:01 AM Re: Question for Steve Craig or others
ryank Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 787
Loc: Wisconsin
Steve,

Call me stupid, (and maybe I am) but who is 'bill' and what is a 'WT' caller? I have never seen one before. If you or someone else could explain it to me, or at least post a web address so anyone can go see one I would be much obliged.

Thanks
RK

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Idle hands may be the devils work, but idle minds are so much worse

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#214771 - 03/09/01 05:50 AM Re: Question for Steve Craig or others
gare Offline
New Member

Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 2
Loc: Canton Ohio USA
I had thought of getting a WT but the way i hear tell now is the new WT does not have a remote. They tell me the unit has a speaker on a wire. I have a friend that had a older model WT. The board went bad and they COULD not get a new board and had to trade it in for the newer model and they said it was not as good as the original model they had . They are unhappy with the new version

[This message has been edited by gare (edited 03-09-2001).]

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#214772 - 03/09/01 07:41 AM Re: Question for Steve Craig or others
Rich Cronk Offline
Retired Moderator

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 7135
Loc: Western Iowa
Gare,
Would you ask your friend about the remote control feature on the new WT unit again please? If there really is no remote available for the new unit, I for one would like to know. Thanks

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