Ron Paul, Spoiler?

azmastablasta

New member

On this topic I find myself much more closely aligned with Geo. Will than with American Thinker from the other thread.

Ron Paul, spoiler?

By George F. Will, Published: December 9

On Oct. 12, 1948, the campaign train of Tom Dewey, the Republican nominee against President Harry Truman, pulled into Beaucoup, Ill., where, from the rear platform, he would speak to about 1,000 people. Before he began, the engineer mistakenly caused the train to lurch a few feet backward, frightening some but injuring none.

Dewey, however, hurt himself by angrily saying into the microphone, “That’s the first lunatic I’ve had for an engineer. He probably ought to be shot at sunrise.” Dewey’s “cold arrogance” (Truman biographer David McCullough’s description) reinforced the public’s impression of an unsympathetic and prickly politician.

Truman ran against a Republican-controlled Congress but won because Dewey was off-putting. And Truman won despite two splinter candidacies from his party — those of former vice president Henry Wallace on the left and South Carolina Gov. Strom Thurmond on the right. Each won 2.4 percent of the popular vote.

Because Thurmond’s support was regionally concentrated, he won 39 southern electoral votes. If Truman had lost two of three states — Ohio, Illinois and California (he won them by just 7,000 votes, 34,000 and 18,000, respectively) — no candidate would have won an electoral vote majority, and the House of Representatives would have picked the president. If Dewey had won all three, he would have been president.

So, small vote totals for independent candidacies can have huge potential consequences. Which brings us to Ron Paul.

When recently asked if he might mount an independent candidacy, he said: “I’m not thinking about it because, look, I’m not doing badly right now. . . . So we concentrate only on one thing: Keep moving up in the polls, and see how things come out in a month or two.”

He is in the top tier in Iowa and would alienate Republican voters if he indicated an interest in bolting the party next autumn. Nationally, his ceiling is low, but his floor is solid: His supporters are inclined to accept no substitutes because no other candidate espouses anything like his high-octane blend of libertarianism and isolationism.

Furthermore, he is now nationally known (he campaigned for the 2008 Republican nomination and was the Libertarian Party’s 1988 presidential candidate) and has a large base of small donors. His intense supporters probably could get his name on most states’ ballots. He is not seeking reelection to his House seat, so what has he got to lose?

Well, his candidacy might guarantee Barack Obama’s reelection, and this might hurt the career of his son Rand, the freshman senator from Kentucky. Other than that, however, Ron Paul may think what his ideology implies — that Obama is only marginally more mistaken than Paul’s Republican rivals, who do not wake up each day angry about the 1913 Federal Reserve Act.

So, assume three things. That Obama is weaker in 2012 than he was when winning just 53 percent of the vote in 2008. That Paul could win between 5 percent and 7 percent of the vote nationally (much less than the 18 percent that a recent NBC-Wall Street Journal poll showed were prepared to vote for Paul as an independent). And that at least 80 percent of Paul’s votes would come at the expense of the Republican nominee.

Based on states’ results in 2000, 2004 and 2008, and on states’ previous votes for third-party candidates, and on current polling about the strength of potential Republican nominees in particular states, it is plausible to conclude that a Paul candidacy would have these consequences:

●It would enable Obama to carry two states he lost in 2008: Missouri (11 electoral votes), which he lost by 0.13 points, and Arizona (11), which he lost by 8.52 points to native son John McCain.

●It would enable Obama to again win four states he captured in 2008 and that the Republican nominee probably must win in 2012: Florida (29), Indiana (11), North Carolina (15) and Virginia (13).

●It would secure Obama’s hold on the following states he won in 2008 but that Republicans hope to take back next year: New Mexico (5), Colorado (9), Nevada (6), Michigan (16), Ohio (18), Pennsylvania (20) and New Hampshire (4).

At a minimum, a Paul candidacy would force the Republican nominee to spend time and money in places he otherwise might be able to economize both. And a Paul candidacy would make 2012 much easier for Obama than 2008 was. Now, reread Paul’s words quoted above, particularly these: “right now” and “in a month or two.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ron-paul-spoiler/2011/12/08/gIQAVceCjO_story.html
 
Originally Posted By: CRshooterI would prefer the Hildebeast as an independant canidate.


I'm not liking that idea as well. To refer to such a quality person as a 'beast' is mean spirited.
 
And we all know the Dem favorite strategy of the policy of personal destruction is in no way mean spirited don't we? Typical lib response, if you're not liberal you are mean spirited, heartless, non-compassionate, and a racist too.
 
Originally Posted By: azmastablastaAnd we all know the Dem favorite strategy of the policy of personal destruction is in no way mean spirited don't we? Typical lib response, if you're not liberal you are mean spirited, heartless, non-compassionate, and a racist too.


I don't think any one here is heartless, non-compassionate, racist, or mean-spirited. You guys call Hillary a hildabeast all the time. I do realize that it is a moniker that you find clever that expresses your disagreement with her politics. I was joking and trying to defend Hillary a little. The strategy of personal destruction was not invented by Democrats and they are certainly not the only practitioners.
 
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Obviously the author of this article is in the business of protecting the status quo. Expect more and more articles like this as the elections draw nearer. The media will up it's propaganda and try to scare the daylights out of you with an imminent attack from iran (disregard, this is only one of their many tactics). They will still be afraid to mention Ron Pauls name. This is them still trying to keep the 'cat in the bag' so to speak haha...obviously the cat has been out awhile now, but its still fun to watch..They're afraid you might break away from your media induced trance and do your own research...it really is quite comical to watch..


 
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There will be a lot of decisions made in the next four primaries starting in January...I'll reserve comment until after we see how the dust starts to settle...
 
Since neither the repubs or the dems have 50% of the voters on their side, it's a simple fact they both need votes from independents in order to win. In 2008 a majority of the independents voted for Obama and he won. Check this poll of Paul's support among Independents and how he does vs Obama.

"The NBC News/Marist Poll reveals some interesting facts about the 12-term Texas Congressman’s competitiveness against Obama:

President Obama defeats all GOP competitors except for Ron Paul in a hypothetical matchup; and

42 percent of registered voters in Iowa support Ron Paul and 42 percent back Obama, with 16 percent undecided; and

Ron Paul leads Obama 42 to 35 percent among independent voters and attracts 15 percent of Iowa’s Democrats; and

Ron Paul also leads Obama by 14 percentage points among voters under 45 years of age."

It would appear that the REAL man to beat Obama is Ron Paul.
 

This is probably more accurate than any paid for "Poll".

http://www.journalism.org/analysis_report/twitter_and_campaign

December 8, 2011
HOW THE DISCUSSION ON TWITTER VARIES FROM BLOGS AND NEWS COVERAGE AND RON PAUL'S TWITTER TRIUMPH
A detailed examination of more than 20 million Tweets about the race for president finds that the political discussion on Twitter is measurably different than the one found in the blogosphere-more voluminous, more fluid and even less neutral.

But both forms of social media differ markedly from the political narrative that Americans receive from news coverage, according to a new study by the Pew Research Center's Project for Excellence in Journalism, which examines campaign coverage and the online conversation from May 2-November 27.
 
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I'm as conservative as one can be, but Ron Paul won't ever be president. He should be in charge of the Federal Reserve and probably many other positions, but he is not presidential. He is not seen as a strong leader or presidential because he actually whines at times. I love everything he says "inside" the country. As soon as his thoughts leave our borders he looses 80% of the people he's talking to. Every time.

Look, I'm going to solve the worlds economic problems right here, right now; If you can't pay cash, you can't afford it. If you want to pay with it by credit, you HAVE to have no more than 10% of your total net worth in revolving credit. The exception is the house you live in. You put a minimum of 20% down. Don't have it, keep saving.

Same goes for the Government; balance budjet every year, period. Done. Thank you, I'll be here all evening!
 
Originally Posted By: TiminatorI'm as conservative as one can be, but Ron Paul won't ever be president. He should be in charge of the Federal Reserve and probably many other positions, but he is not presidential. He is not seen as a strong leader or presidential because he actually whines at times. I love everything he says "inside" the country. As soon as his thoughts leave our borders he looses 80% of the people he's talking to. Every time.

Look, I'm going to solve the worlds economic problems right here, right now; If you can't pay cash, you can't afford it. If you want to pay with it by credit, you HAVE to have no more than 10% of your total net worth in revolving credit. The exception is the house you live in. You put a minimum of 20% down. Don't have it, keep saving.

Same goes for the Government; balance budget every year, period. Done. Thank you, I'll be here all evening!



I couldn't agree more with that section. It was the old way, the was of the "greatest" generation. It was information passed down to most of us and sadly ignored by many of us. In particular politicians.

What I keep seeing in repeat as a strike against Ron Paul is the Foreign Policy. Maybe he is old fashioned, maybe he is too much of a stickler to ideals. I believe though that one of the smartest men to ever call himself and American was Thomas Jefferson. Ron Paul's views on foreign policy are taken strait from the words of Jefferson.

The times may have changed, the toys we play the game with may have changed but the problems have not.

"I am for free commerce with all nations, political connection with none, and little or no diplomatic establishment. And I am not for linking ourselves by new treaties with the quarrels of Europe, entering that field of slaughter to preserve their balance, or joining in the confederacy of Kings to war against the principles of liberty." --Thomas Jefferson to Elbridge Gerry, 1799. ME 10:77

That is just one, there are quite a few on the subject from Jefferson. Here is the link to them:

http://www.famguardian.org/Subjects/Politics/ThomasJefferson/jeff1400.htm



 
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Originally Posted By: kodiak61
A detailed examination of more than 20 million Tweets about the race for president finds that the political discussion on Twitter is measurably different than the one found in the blogosphere-more voluminous, more fluid and even less neutral.

But both forms of social media differ markedly from the political narrative that Americans receive from news coverage, according to a new study by the Pew Research Center's Project for Excellence in Journalism, which examines campaign coverage and the online conversation from May 2-November 27.

No one disputes that Paul has a very large, small following. No, that is not an oxymoron. His following, as it is, is noisy, dedicated, and relentless on blogs, message boards, etc. However, at the end of the day, Paul is not a mainstream candidate.

During all of the debates, when he gets excited and his eyes get all wild and start wobbling in their sockets and his voice goes up 2 or 3 octaves and starts saying crazy things like, "Why can't all the mad leaders have their own nukes? It's only fair.", we all start to think of that crazy uncle who only shows up on Thanksgiving and the occasional birthday party and provides eye-rolling entertainment and muffled snickers from all of the guests under 50 years old.

While his principles remain consistent, some of the more important ideas in his quiver are neither practical nor even mildly acceptable to the general electorate. The sooner he gets out of the race, the better.

And if he pulls a Ross Perot and gets Obama re-elected, should be considered a traitor to his nation. I truly mean that.
 
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