25 wssm Range report

Backy33, funny you should ask, I just opened a new bag of brass this morning just to see if it would have any effect. (I doubt that it will)
The last few range trips I have been reporting were done using twice fired brass. Sometimes getting the balance between setting the shoulder back far enough for reliable cycling and sizing just as little as possible for maximum accuracy is hard to reach when loading for an AR.

All the loads I'm working up with the heavier bullets will be with new but fully sized brass. Just to make sure I take out every possible variable.
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I'm hoping the Answer is in this box. 15 new loads to try in the morning. 117's and 110's. I stayed a full grain below max listed load with my highest load here since I know how deep they are seated into the case. 2.230 OAL

Ricky
 
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I got another trial with the 80 gr ttsx's today. Using 49.9 gr of Big Game, I had 15 rounds. I shot 1 fouler, then 2 3 shot groups at 2.340" oal, and both times had 1 bad flier. Then set the bullets back to 2.315", and shot the rest. I was at 330 yards, and 7 of the 8 remaining shots went into 2 1/2", the flier opened up the group to 5". Without the flier I could live with that I think, but more tweaking will hopefully make it better.
 
Any chance you could post a picture of your mag with the front cut out? Id do it if it would give me enough space to load vld's. Any chance someone has tried to load the vlds with the front of the mag cut out?. And is the amount of space you gain worth it to make the vld's effective?
 
Backy33, there is a video on youtube of the magazine modification and the modification to the upper reciever required to shoot the VLD's. Yes it can and has been done and yes you do have to jump through some hoops to do it. It's up to you if it's worth it. Personally, I paid 50.00 a piece for my magazines and I'm not about to cut them up. If I could fins a cheap magazine I might give it a try.

Search youtube for WSSM VLD Pmag and you can look at it.
 
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Back from the range with results.

I'll show the 3 targets. and give data from each.

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Top right 117gr Hornady SST 43.0 H-4350 Avg Vel. 2893
Top left 117gr Sierra Game King 43.3 H-4350 Avg Vel. 2910
Center 110gr Nosler Accubond 43.3 H4350 Avg Vel. 2914
Bottom left 117 sierra game king 43.0 H 4350 Avg vel. 2865
Bottom Right. 110gr Nosler Accubond 43.0 H4350 2890

For some reason almost all of the first loads caused the bolt to lock back on a loaded mag. I've noticed this on the bottom end of all my loads with this upper and the problem goes away as pressures increase. Not sure why this is but I suspect I may need a heavier buffer. (I know that counter intuitive but I think that is the problem.

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Top left 110gr Nos Accubond 43.9gr H-4350 Vel 2920
Top right 110gr Nos Accubond 43.6gr H4350 .768 Group
Center 117 Hornady SST 43.6 H-4350 Vel 2898
Bottom left 117gr Sierra GK 43.6 H4350 Vel 2909
Bottom Right 117gr Hornady SST 43.3 H-4350 Vel 2890

I will try that Accubond load again with 5 shot groups.
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Top right 110gr Accubond, 44.2 gr H-4350 Vel 2945
Center 117gr Sierra Game king 44.2gr H4350 vel 2955
Bottom left 117gr Hornady SST 43.9 gr H4350 Vel 2895 (1.098 Group)
Bottom right. 117gr Sierra game king 43.9 H4350 vel 2923 (.568 group) best group for the day
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I did not shoot the 44.2 SST load I had because 43.9 showed pressure signs.
I will re try the 43.6 gr load with 110gr accubond, the 43.9 and 43.3 loads with the 117gr sierra game king, and the 117gr Hornady SST 43.9 load with some 5 shot groups to see if the results can be duplicated.

Fingers crossed.

Ricky
 
That is looking better. With the 500 series VV powder it gives more velocity with less pressures.

I have a question. When you load your mag to shoot do you load only what you shoot or do you throw an extra round in the mag? I quess what I am saying, when I shoot a 4 shot group I load 5 in the mag that way the bolt does not lock open on the last shot.

How much time bettween shots in a group? Not trying to offend just trying to help you get tighter.

Mike
 
Originally Posted By: GrizleyHunterNeed pics of mag!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks


Ask and you will receive:
I actually cut about 1/2" more than would be needed. The next one I will mark at the bottom of the mag well and cut to there. Real easy with a dremel and cut off wheel.

As far as the cost of the mags, I have 3 so experimented with one and I'm glad I did. With these I can get most non-tipped bullets to the lands easily. I know Cbass makes cut out mags out of the pmags, so I figured it should work with aluminum mags too.
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Well that should work.
I have two questions,did you have to cut it that wide and how much do you think you gained for extra bullet length.

Thanks
 
Maybe not quite that wide, but wider than you'd think bc the rounds don't stack up straight, they're actually staggered a little bit. And with the folded seams on the front of the mag, I just cut along the seams.

As far as length, I went from 2.260" to 2.340", so 80 thousandths. If you notch the upper a little you can get about 2.400", I've seen it online but didn't wan't to do that. The Barnes bullets touch lands at 2.390", so at 2.340" I'm the 50 thou off the lands that Barnes recommends. It looks like they'll shoot better a little deeper, but the test is far from over.

If I get better accuracy by cutting a $50 mag, I'll take it in a new york minute, unless reliability suffers. I've not had a single malfunction of any kind yet with about 40 rounds thru it so far. I'll let you all know if that changes.
 
Originally Posted By: mikeinlouisianaThat is looking better. With the 500 series VV powder it gives more velocity with less pressures.

I have a question. When you load your mag to shoot do you load only what you shoot or do you throw an extra round in the mag? I quess what I am saying, when I shoot a 4 shot group I load 5 in the mag that way the bolt does not lock open on the last shot.

How much time bettween shots in a group? Not trying to offend just trying to help you get tighter.

Mike



Questions don't offend Mike, I appreciate the input. I only load 3 in the mag at a time, I want it to open on an empty Mag. Its staying opening on a loaded mag that is a problem. it has done it on almost all of the lower pressure loads I have tried and then quits as the loads get hotter.

I don't rush my shots. I typically take the shot, walk over and pick up the brass and inspect it, then write down the chrony data then settle in for another shot. Time between shots is probably 2 minutes. In between groups I walk up to the target and mark the shots etc so that I am fully cooled at the beginning of each group. My barrel never gets more than warm. It took over 2 hours to shoot all the groups I did this morning.
 
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You will never get the 3 shot in the group to match the other 2 with the bolt being locked open...... I never could!!! The 3 shot just goes where ever. The bolt locking open with a full mag is strange. Your rifle is not resting on the magazine when shooting? It sounds like a magazine problem.
 
Originally Posted By: mikeinlouisianaYou will never get the 3 shot in the group to match the other 2 with the bolt being locked open...... I never could!!! The 3 shot just goes where ever. The bolt locking open with a full mag is strange. Your rifle is not resting on the magazine when shooting? It sounds like a magazine problem.

Wait a minute, are you guys serious or pulling our leg? The last shot in a mag won't shoot straight? Why, and is this a wssm phenomenon or for all calibers?

I just never heard that before.
 
The last shot in a mag has never shot the same POI in any of my AR's. I always load an extra or shoot 1 less than what I loaded. I have notice it and compensate for it. The last shot even sounds different to me.

Mike
 
Hmm, I'll have to give that some thought. I have had last shot fliers, but not all that often really. I could see where maybe the pressure from the round in the mag might hold the carrier in a little higher position, or cause a little drag when it starts back. I would have to think the bullet is loooong gone before the carrier starts back forward (or not). Or is there another explanation? I just never gave this any thought before....
 
That is interesting mike, I have not had that problem in my other AR's but I can tell you that with this AR Today alone (and you can check this with the targets I posted above), I had 6 groups where shots one and 2 were touching or very close and shot 3 opened it up. I will definately be trying the extra round trick to see if it helps.

Honestly I don't see how it would have that effect since the bullet should be gone before the bolt locks back. But it's worth a try.
 
I always thought it had to do with the way the rifle cycles. As soon as you fire the bolt is moving back. It get hung half cycle. Maybe recoil. Try it and you will notice. You can always say I am full of Ka Ka, but I will keep loading one mo.
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Quote: I had 6 groups where shots one and 2 were touching or very close and shot 3 opened it up

I noticed that with your targets. You had a smokin group going then bang it opend up. I am sure it will help you.

Mike
 
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