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#2024667 - 10/22/11 07:40 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: DoubleCK]
Catdawg Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/13/09
Posts: 121
Loc: Nevada
There are reasons to use coons for training a decoy dog, like to fire up the game drive in a pup and maybe to teach a pup what end has teeth and means business... other than that, the dog will learn very little that will help it with coyotes.

When I ran curs, I used them for both decoying coyotes and treeing game. They did well at both. If this is the plan, coons are valuable training aids and very worthy quarry for young dogs. They learn to strike, run and tree their own game and once they start to figure coons out, they have the foundation to go on to cats and bears.

If all you're ever going to do is decoy with your dog, coons are useless in your young dogs training (Except for teaching a young dog how to fight smart).

As far as decoy dogs NOT needing to know how to fight...? Anyone that believes that, needs to go call more coyotes in to their dogs. Sooner or later your dogs are going to get caught by coyotes that mean business. Coyotes are very territorial and when they answer your challenge howl and come on the run, they're not coming to introduce themselves and shake hands.

Some coyotes will see your dog and turn tail and run, some WILL NOT! I want my dog to be ready for a fight and that is why I bring them up the ranks learning to fight other critters.

If you take a green, year or so old pup out and run into a big, aggressive male yote... You'll wish you had gave him some preliminary bouts beforehand, with something more manageable and so will he. That's a real good way to ruin a promising young dog.

This isn't rocket science, it's common sense. It's all about exposure to game and setting them up for success. Take the right pup, raise it right and you'll be amazed at what that dog will learn to do.

Take care and happy hunting!

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#2024742 - 10/22/11 10:24 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: Catdawg]
gonzaga Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 4365
Loc: Raton, NM U.S.A.
I like that analogy Catdawg, good insight from a guy that runs his dogs.

Thanks.
_________________________
Tighten up your helmet and grab your crayons Turbo.....this could get bumpy....

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#2024759 - 10/22/11 10:56 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: gonzaga]
emeraldterriers1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 697
Loc: kansas
some very good insight catdawg but isnt that where a decoy dog decoys them back? nipping there a$$ aint gonna kill a dog, maybe the handler should of recalled sooner?i guess if a fella is just taking pictures,yes but if the handler is toting a firearm? i no i'm speaking out of turn but rockinbar's schnauzer has made it work for alot of coyotes.i see lots of pics of decoy dogs and there aint none of them scarred up like they have been fighting. maybe the coyotes around here are different? dont know, maybe every body see's fighting/ defending at different levels?has anyone on here that decoys coyotes ever lost one to coyotes killing them?

fight or flight...
_________________________
all i can say is WOW

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#2024885 - 10/22/11 02:16 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: emeraldterriers1]
DoubleCK Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 3485
Loc: Wauneta, NE / Gold Canyon, AZ
Who would have thought this topic would turn into such a thought provoking, informative discussion?

PredatorMasters Rocks!
_________________________
Don't Go Ridin' on that Long Black Train!

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#2024922 - 10/22/11 03:22 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: DoubleCK]
coyote1758 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 489
Loc: nichlosville,ky
Thanks catdawg,you said exactly what I was trying to learn,and I agree that is what I was trying to teach the dog was how to fight smart.And as for calling the dog back sooner and it being just a decoy,well a rabbit would work just as well and I would not worry about it getting chewed up or killed.She"sam" is doing a good job being them back but not every hunt works perfect and if she gets in trouble I will set up and stop it but needs to know how to fight smart with a coon or coyote,yet know the game is bring it back to me.Again thanks catdawg.

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#2024933 - 10/22/11 03:56 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: Catdawg]
Aaron_Proffitt Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 516
Loc: Elgin, OK
Originally Posted By: Catdawg
There are reasons to use coons for training a decoy dog, like to fire up the game drive in a pup and maybe to teach a pup what end has teeth and means business... other than that, the dog will learn very little that will help it with coyotes.

When I ran curs, I used them for both decoying coyotes and treeing game. They did well at both. If this is the plan, coons are valuable training aids and very worthy quarry for young dogs. They learn to strike, run and tree their own game and once they start to figure coons out, they have the foundation to go on to cats and bears.

If all you're ever going to do is decoy with your dog, coons are useless in your young dogs training (Except for teaching a young dog how to fight smart).

As far as decoy dogs NOT needing to know how to fight...? Anyone that believes that, needs to go call more coyotes in to their dogs. Sooner or later your dogs are going to get caught by coyotes that mean business. Coyotes are very territorial and when they answer your challenge howl and come on the run, they're not coming to introduce themselves and shake hands.

Some coyotes will see your dog and turn tail and run, some WILL NOT! I want my dog to be ready for a fight and that is why I bring them up the ranks learning to fight other critters.

If you take a green, year or so old pup out and run into a big, aggressive male yote... You'll wish you had gave him some preliminary bouts beforehand, with something more manageable and so will he. That's a real good way to ruin a promising young dog.

This isn't rocket science, it's common sense. It's all about exposure to game and setting them up for success. Take the right pup, raise it right and you'll be amazed at what that dog will learn to do.

Take care and happy hunting!


Thank you !! Is it really that hard to imagine ? Jesus...some of this has made me feel like I was explaining ice to a Pygmy.

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#2024935 - 10/22/11 03:59 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: emeraldterriers1]
Aaron_Proffitt Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 516
Loc: Elgin, OK
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
some very good insight catdawg but isnt that where a decoy dog decoys them back? nipping there a$$ aint gonna kill a dog, maybe the handler should of recalled sooner?i guess if a fella is just taking pictures,yes but if the handler is toting a firearm? i no i'm speaking out of turn but rockinbar's schnauzer has made it work for alot of coyotes.i see lots of pics of decoy dogs and there aint none of them scarred up like they have been fighting. maybe the coyotes around here are different? dont know, maybe every body see's fighting/ defending at different levels?has anyone on here that decoys coyotes ever lost one to coyotes killing them?

fight or flight...


You don't run decoy dogs.....so why do you continue to act as though you know coyote behavior with regards to decoy dogs ? Starting to piss me off.

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#2024947 - 10/22/11 04:12 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: Aaron_Proffitt]
DoubleCK Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 3485
Loc: Wauneta, NE / Gold Canyon, AZ
Hate to see folks get upset. I feel like the process here has yielded some really good discussion which brought out some well articulated info. Sure was valuable to me. Isn't that what this is all about?
_________________________
Don't Go Ridin' on that Long Black Train!

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#2024951 - 10/22/11 04:16 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: DoubleCK]
Aaron_Proffitt Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 516
Loc: Elgin, OK
Originally Posted By: DoubleCK
Hate to see folks get upset. I feel like the process here has yielded some really good discussion which brought out some well articulated info. Sure was valuable to me. Isn't that what this is all about?


That's exactly what it's all about....however, you have one guy who has said he doesn't hunt this way give an opinion on how these dogs should be trained and how coyotes should react to them. Even though he doesn't use 'em,


Be like me telling him how to dig terriers.

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#2024960 - 10/22/11 04:29 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: Aaron_Proffitt]
DoubleCK Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 3485
Loc: Wauneta, NE / Gold Canyon, AZ
You know how some dogs hate to turn loose after they get ahold.

I love that about Terriers ....... and their owners. thumbup1
_________________________
Don't Go Ridin' on that Long Black Train!

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#2024965 - 10/22/11 04:40 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: DoubleCK]
Aaron_Proffitt Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 516
Loc: Elgin, OK
Originally Posted By: DoubleCK
You know how some dogs hate to turn loose after they get ahold.

I love that about Terriers ....... and their owners. thumbup1


HAHAHAHAHAHA !!! It's true ! And it's no different in the British Isles either.

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#2024974 - 10/22/11 04:53 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: Aaron_Proffitt]
DoubleCK Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 3485
Loc: Wauneta, NE / Gold Canyon, AZ
Besides that I was born in Kansas. Everyone knows that the nicest people you will ever meet are from Kansas. cool

I expect that goes for Terriers also. thumbup

And as a former Husker...well I would Sooner be a Husker. tt2
_________________________
Don't Go Ridin' on that Long Black Train!

Top
#2024978 - 10/22/11 04:59 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: DoubleCK]
Aaron_Proffitt Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 516
Loc: Elgin, OK
To true...not letting go of the sock waved in front of me just yet,though,

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#2025105 - 10/22/11 08:55 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: Aaron_Proffitt]
emeraldterriers1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 697
Loc: kansas
Originally Posted By: Aaron_Proffitt
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
some very good insight catdawg but isnt that where a decoy dog decoys them back? nipping there a$$ aint gonna kill a dog, maybe the handler should of recalled sooner?i guess if a fella is just taking pictures,yes but if the handler is toting a firearm? i no i'm speaking out of turn but rockinbar's schnauzer has made it work for alot of coyotes.i see lots of pics of decoy dogs and there aint none of them scarred up like they have been fighting. maybe the coyotes around here are different? dont know, maybe every body see's fighting/ defending at different levels?has anyone on here that decoys coyotes ever lost one to coyotes killing them?

fight or flight...


You don't run decoy dogs.....so why do you continue to act as though you know coyote behavior with regards to decoy dogs ? Starting to piss me off.


aaron proffit, dont be mad rolleyes do you hunt your dogs? do you decoy coyotes? i have a airedale but dont have a good enough handle on her to bring her back cursing is it because she is to "gamey" maybe? or maybe she justs turns a deaf ear, but i can promise you this she will fight and i didnt have to teach her $hit.lol can she kill a coyote that is uninjured? nope i dont believe so,can she track/trail a coyote wounded or not ? you bet she can.i have ran her like a trail hound many times pushing creek bottoms and moving several coyotes (up to 5) and she does this alone thumbup1never had one or two whip her. maybe i'm just lucky? dont know. one thing to remember... its better to be pissed off than to be pissed on tt2
_________________________
all i can say is WOW

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#2025144 - 10/22/11 09:52 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: emeraldterriers1]
DoubleCK Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 3485
Loc: Wauneta, NE / Gold Canyon, AZ
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
i have ran her like a trail hound many times pushing creek bottoms and moving several coyotes


Cool! Do you post shooters up the creek? Sounds like fun.

Tell us how that works.
_________________________
Don't Go Ridin' on that Long Black Train!

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