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#2024040 - 10/21/11 11:04 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: Aaron_Proffitt]
emeraldterriers1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 697
Loc: kansas
i'm lost....
who is denning with a cur?
who says knockem's dogknows what its teeth are used for?
whose cur or airedale can catch a healthy foot loose coyote?
(by the way i'll take a pup if you find one)but wont hold my breath
and if a "hunting" dog doesnt have the natural "fire in the belly" instilled from the beginning don't waste your time...
you cant teach instincts.
_________________________
all i can say is WOW

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#2024042 - 10/21/11 11:10 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: emeraldterriers1]
Aaron_Proffitt Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 516
Loc: Elgin, OK
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1

who says knockem's dogknows what its teeth are used for?

My mistake. It was 1758 who said that, not Knockem'. Muhbad

and if a "hunting" dog doesnt have the natural "fire in the belly" instilled from the beginning don't waste your time...
you cant teach instincts.

I agree.

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#2024043 - 10/21/11 11:18 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: emeraldterriers1]
Aaron_Proffitt Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 516
Loc: Elgin, OK
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
i'm lost....
who is denning with a cur?
who says knockem's dogknows what its teeth are used for?
whose cur or airedale can catch a healthy foot loose coyote?
(by the way i'll take a pup if you find one)but wont hold my breath
and if a "hunting" dog doesnt have the natural "fire in the belly" instilled from the beginning don't waste your time...
you cant teach instincts.



One other thing, if you haven't noticed...coyotes are becoming more and more dog apathetic and even aggressive towards them. I know many guys who are now using Airedales ,BMC's,Catahoulas and other hard breeds in with their bird dogs and coon hounds to keep the coyotes off of 'em. Two guys from work watched as their bird dogs were killed ( one a Britt and the other a beautiful English setter) on seperate occassions.

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#2024044 - 10/21/11 11:22 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: coyote1758]
Aaron_Proffitt Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 516
Loc: Elgin, OK
Originally Posted By: coyote1758
Again guys thanks for the help.Not saying she is all that.She has not had a yote want to bit her yet and I was trying to get her to realize her teeth are her her defend herself and not just for eating dog food.Maybe I am more concerned than her.I read my first post and it read let she was a really good dog,she is 10mos old pup learning,so let me humble and tell you that me and sam are learning togather.I am no dog trainer and just trying to learn from the guys on here.Thanks again,chuck



My mistake . I was getting 1758 and Knokemdown confused . Here's the originater of the thread's post.

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#2024060 - 10/21/11 11:47 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: Aaron_Proffitt]
emeraldterriers1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 697
Loc: kansas
Originally Posted By: Aaron_Proffitt
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
i'm lost....
who is denning with a cur?
who says knockem's dogknows what its teeth are used for?
whose cur or airedale can catch a healthy foot loose coyote?
(by the way i'll take a pup if you find one)but wont hold my breath
and if a "hunting" dog doesnt have the natural "fire in the belly" instilled from the beginning don't waste your time...
you cant teach instincts.



One other thing, if you haven't noticed...coyotes are becoming more and more dog apathetic and even aggressive towards them. I know many guys who are now using Airedales ,BMC's,Catahoulas and other hard breeds in with their bird dogs and coon hounds to keep the coyotes off of 'em. Two guys from work watched as their bird dogs were killed ( one a Britt and the other a beautiful English setter) on seperate occassions.


where is this place where coyotes are becoming apathetic towards dogs? the suburbs of california?where no hunting is allowed? not here in the good old midwest...coyotes run from brittany's here see it every yr bird hunting.and for coon hounds really? wolves destroy hounds but never heard of a coyote or coyotes for that matter gettin hounds. i'm sure you have heard of fox hounds, julys, ect... they chase coyotes for a living,i'm not sure why they would breed a cross into them unless they were lacking something??? hounds have been around a long time, no sence in reventing the wheel.
how are these crosses working out for them? are they gaining the grit needed to protect them? how about loosing the control,staunch pointing, retrieving instincts?
were these guys from work hunting with there bird dogs? i assume in oklahoma?
_________________________
all i can say is WOW

Top
#2024076 - 10/21/11 12:20 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: emeraldterriers1]
Aaron_Proffitt Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 516
Loc: Elgin, OK
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
Originally Posted By: Aaron_Proffitt
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
i'm lost....
who is denning with a cur?
who says knockem's dogknows what its teeth are used for?
whose cur or airedale can catch a healthy foot loose coyote?
(by the way i'll take a pup if you find one)but wont hold my breath
and if a "hunting" dog doesnt have the natural "fire in the belly" instilled from the beginning don't waste your time...
you cant teach instincts.



One other thing, if you haven't noticed...coyotes are becoming more and more dog apathetic and even aggressive towards them. I know many guys who are now using Airedales ,BMC's,Catahoulas and other hard breeds in with their bird dogs and coon hounds to keep the coyotes off of 'em. Two guys from work watched as their bird dogs were killed ( one a Britt and the other a beautiful English setter) on seperate occassions.


where is this place where coyotes are becoming apathetic towards dogs? the suburbs of california?where no hunting is allowed? not here in the good old midwest...coyotes run from brittany's here see it every yr bird hunting. OK... and for coon hounds really? wolves destroy hounds but never heard of a coyote or coyotes for that matter gettin hounds. i'm sure you have heard of fox hounds, julys, ect... they chase coyotes for a living,i'm not sure why they would breed a cross into them unless they were lacking something??? hounds have been around a long time, no sence in reventing the wheel.
how are these crosses working out for them? are they gaining the grit needed to protect them? how about loosing the control,staunch pointing, retrieving instincts? I have no idea what you're talking about...what crosses did I mention ? I'm talking about traditional coonhounds.
were these guys from work hunting with there bird dogs? i assume in oklahoma? Right here in Oklahoma

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#2024082 - 10/21/11 12:24 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: emeraldterriers1]
Jesse lackey Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/28/09
Posts: 1909
Loc: Michigan. Go Blue
WoW, this thread is bouncing all over the place, lol. I will put almost any dog on a coon once, just to see what they have. Like said before, if the dog has the drive, a coon will sure show you it does, a coon will turn and fight. A dog that has never had to fight will keep on not fighting. If you start putting it on coons, and making it fight, then that will be his go to move, use his teeth.

But that being said, a cornered gut shot coyote will cause the same affect, if your dog is working for you the way you want, i say leave it be. Dont fix what isnt broken. Some day if the dog is cornered into a fight with a coyote, you will find out what he has. Ether he will fight, or he wont, but no ammunt of coons will change that.

Like said before, coyotes are smart, they know if they get injured, they die, and will avoid a fight at all cost. If it was a coyotes perogative to turn and fight, we wouldnt need hounds that were so fast, we would just take pit bulls out, and when the coyotes attacked them, they would die.

I have fox hounds that will kill coyotes by them selfs. But i like most guys have had a dog get in a bad situation with coyotes, and they needed help, im not saying they would have been killed, but they wouldnt have been so healthy when they walked away, but i surely didnt stand by and watch my dogs get killed infront of my eyes!
_________________________
If our wives were more like our dogs...... There would be a lot more happy men in this world.

"six potato chips all at once? wow, guess he is gonna make a decoy dog!" hahaha just kiddin guys!

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#2024085 - 10/21/11 12:29 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: Jesse lackey]
Aaron_Proffitt Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 516
Loc: Elgin, OK
An account from another site....


Took Earl out coon hunting last saturday, we made it about three quarters of the way around the vineyard when coyotes sounded off. On the garmin it showed Earl making a bee line in the direction of the coyotes. When he got about 380 yards out the coyotes lit up again with quite a rucus. Well when Earl got there he must have realized he was out numbered and turned tail. He came by us like a streak with the coyoyes in hot pursuit yipping and howling all the way to the truck, and when they saw us they started barking at us and howling. They were only about 45 yards away and we could see them through the brush it was a pretty eary feeling.

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#2024091 - 10/21/11 12:40 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: Aaron_Proffitt]
Jesse lackey Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/28/09
Posts: 1909
Loc: Michigan. Go Blue
Aaron, im not disputing the fact that a spring time coyote guarding a den full of pups wont run a dog out of the woods. We have it happen from time to time with us, but the point is, Had that dog turned to fight that pack of coyotes, what do you think would have happened?

The dog acted true to his instincts of self preservation. RUN! A coyote will do the same thing if a dog is trying to kill it. I dont care how much grit you breed into any dog, if he tries to fight three coyotes at once, he isnt going to be feeling too spry when its all said and done!
_________________________
If our wives were more like our dogs...... There would be a lot more happy men in this world.

"six potato chips all at once? wow, guess he is gonna make a decoy dog!" hahaha just kiddin guys!

Top
#2024093 - 10/21/11 12:42 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: Aaron_Proffitt]
emeraldterriers1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 697
Loc: kansas
quote: i know many guys who are now using airedales,bmc,catahoulas and other hard breeds in with there bird dogs and coonhounds to keep the coyotes off of them... traditional coon hounds walkers,blue ticks,english, blk/tans, ect...or are they running these breeds with the coon hounds and bird dogs? if that is the case how do the bird hunters keep a airedale or catahoula from busting birds or making a brittany break a point?
and the hounds are the "hard dogs" turned loose after the coyotes attack? i would think a airedale might turn a straight cooner into a trash hound running with one.

i also assume they were not hunting when there bird dogs were attacked and killed? only speaking for myself, i would of waded in and stomped a coyote... but i would of bet money the yote would of turned tail and ran.... back to the fight or flight.... the latter 98% of the time.lol
_________________________
all i can say is WOW

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#2024106 - 10/21/11 01:10 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: emeraldterriers1]
Aaron_Proffitt Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 516
Loc: Elgin, OK
Bird hunters are keeping the 'dales at heel, even using them as flushers from time to time; but they can be sent to help if needed. The guys I know for a fact doing this are in Nebraska and another bunch in No. Mo..

The coon hunters are letting the dogs run right in with the hounds. My guess is that they are content to just trot along with the hounds cause it makes 'em feel like they're contributing to the chase .I don't know but it's not uncommon for some guys to put an Airedale in with hounds.

The dead upland bird dogs...from what I understand is that even though both incidents occurred maybe 25 miles from each other, they were both similar in that it a single dog and the guys had lost sight of it for a short time. I believe the Brit was in a ravine and the Setter was in some thick stuff along the Canadian River. In the Britt case, I believe they entered the ravine and the coyote was on the body still "fighting" the obviously dead dog . They sent a load of #6's it's way, but we all know fruitless that'd been . The Setter...they got there right after the fact , and the dog was alive but didn't make it back to the truck. They said it was obviously a canine of some kind judging by the tracks left in the red dirt/mud.The assumption is that it was a coyote.

Neither of these guys have changed how they hunt with one exception...they used to have the typical western Okie quail hunter mindset that a bird dog has to range clear to the horizon to find birds. Now they have alot more control over their existing dogs and that's a good thing.

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#2024111 - 10/21/11 01:16 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: Aaron_Proffitt]
Jesse lackey Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/28/09
Posts: 1909
Loc: Michigan. Go Blue
I have done lots of hunting along the Canadian, and i can assure you there are some rough coyotes over there, lol.
_________________________
If our wives were more like our dogs...... There would be a lot more happy men in this world.

"six potato chips all at once? wow, guess he is gonna make a decoy dog!" hahaha just kiddin guys!

Top
#2024112 - 10/21/11 01:17 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: coyote1758]
17tactical Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 07/03/09
Posts: 1681
Loc: Westchester County, NY, USA
too bad you dont live near me, I trap 5 coons every weekend raiding my neighbors' trash cans... Rolling cage can do wonders for a coonhound

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#2024115 - 10/21/11 01:21 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: Jesse lackey]
Aaron_Proffitt Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 516
Loc: Elgin, OK
Originally Posted By: Jesse lackey
I have done lots of hunting along the Canadian, and i can assure you there are some rough coyotes over there, lol.



Any insight on why that is ? Cause I've had that same experience ....bad news down along that "river" that now looks more like a dirt road.

Here's a vid clip of a pack of hounds involved with a bear that didn't wanna stay in the tree...and a little airedale in with them.

http://www.reloadpress.com/cg/bear/

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#2024136 - 10/21/11 01:47 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: Aaron_Proffitt]
Jesse lackey Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/28/09
Posts: 1909
Loc: Michigan. Go Blue
No, i have never really tried to justify it. There are some sections over there that the coyotes a re real rough, and you can move 15 miles down the road, and its like a whold different world.

This winter, my hound pack was, well, lets just say less than par, and in one area, i had to go with the hounds several times to get a coyote to run. They just wanted to stand and fight. It was spring time, and they were protecting a den. I know it sounds like im contradicting my previouse post, but i never had a dog killed. In that situation there is two options, The dog is going to kill the coyote (in this case i didnt have the dog power for that) or the dog is going to come back to the truck.

I think most of it is DNA. There is lots of coyotes in that area, so they are very teritorial. Lots of compitition makes tough coyotes. It takes a pretty gritty coyote to hold a pack together, so you have real tough and gritty coyotes breeding all the biches. Well, just like dogs, a real gritty coyote will most likely throw real gritty pups, and they just continue to get rougher and rougher through the generations.

Without that strong compitition, the coyotes dont need to be quite as gritty. In wild animals, its amazing how mother nature will cause critters to addapt to the environment, and is reflected in their manorisms.
_________________________
If our wives were more like our dogs...... There would be a lot more happy men in this world.

"six potato chips all at once? wow, guess he is gonna make a decoy dog!" hahaha just kiddin guys!

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