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#2021662 - 10/18/11 10:01 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: TonyTebbe]
Aaron_Proffitt Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 516
Loc: Elgin, OK
Originally Posted By: TonyTebbe
In addition, you wouldn't work a young pointer or spaniel on rooster pheasant. You'd start them on pigeons and quail. Same goes for young coyote dog pups. Dogs get excited and learn from action.

Tony


Exactly...and if nothing else they got to give chase and put it up a tree. They got to lay eyes on the prize !! That's exciting stuff for a young dog ! That's a dog that'll destroy the house when he hears the truck fire up at 3:3o in the morning.

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#2021998 - 10/18/11 07:39 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: Aaron_Proffitt]
emeraldterriers1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 697
Loc: kansas
read the 1st post... the dog has already brought back 10 to 15 coyotes, has it sucessfully decoyed every coyote it has seen? do the math that dog has probably seen its share of coyotes already, why mess with a coon? if the dog is worth its salt it will chase a coon anyway.
coyote1758 states it will chase cats,cows and yotes you really think you would have to "work" it on a coon? i think i would work on leaving the livestock alone.
_________________________
all i can say is WOW

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#2022018 - 10/18/11 07:57 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: emeraldterriers1]
knockemdown Offline
suburban redneck

Registered: 02/19/03
Posts: 4744
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
read the 1st post... the dog has already brought back 10 to 15 coyotes, has it sucessfully decoyed every coyote it has seen? do the math that dog has probably seen its share of coyotes already, why mess with a coon? if the dog is worth its salt it will chase a coon anyway.
coyote1758 states it will chase cats,cows and yotes you really think you would have to "work" it on a coon? i think i would work on leaving the livestock alone.


Stop making so much sense. You'll just keep confusing everyone thumbup1

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#2022039 - 10/18/11 08:25 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: knockemdown]
DoubleCK Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 3485
Loc: Wauneta, NE / Gold Canyon, AZ
Tim started Tucker on Coyotes. (frozen stiff)







Coons? Heck, I don't know. During Tucker's first summer we couldn't keep these little masked rascals out of the cage traps. Trapped them two at a time. I figured it was a sign. Tucker was born on 3/17 so I guess they were about the same age.







Later, in the fall we used some bigger bandits. She treed this one next to the barn at a pretty young age.







Any way I love it when she trees coons for me. So I guess for us maybe it is okay.

And YES, it's time to put some Coyotes in front of her. Guess we'll see if she can learn to do both.
_________________________
Don't Go Ridin' on that Long Black Train!

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#2022060 - 10/18/11 08:39 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: knockemdown]
coyote1758 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 489
Loc: nichlosville,ky
Again guys thanks for the help.Not saying she is all that.She has not had a yote want to bit her yet and I was trying to get her to realize her teeth are her her defend herself and not just for eating dog food.Maybe I am more concerned than her.I read my first post and it read let she was a really good dog,she is 10mos old pup learning,so let me humble and tell you that me and sam are learning togather.I am no dog trainer and just trying to learn from the guys on here.Thanks again,chuck

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#2022067 - 10/18/11 08:44 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: coyote1758]
DoubleCK Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 3485
Loc: Wauneta, NE / Gold Canyon, AZ
Cool Beans Chuck! Have Fun!
_________________________
Don't Go Ridin' on that Long Black Train!

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#2022249 - 10/18/11 10:56 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: DoubleCK]
cawilson82 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 1983
Loc: tn
i'm with the group on this. use the coon and i'd add trapping a few coyotes for her.

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#2022282 - 10/18/11 11:30 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: coyote1758]
gonzaga Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 4365
Loc: Raton, NM U.S.A.
It's YOUR dog, train em as you see fit. If you want a dog that will get after just coyotes all the time, that is gonna be difficult to trash break her off of coons and other critters because it's sounds like shes turning into an all around dog.

Coyotes are Tugs primary target, but he has chased more than a few cats and coons too. Keeps him gamey, when I'm on a coyote stand and a coon shows up, I'm sure were gonna take it just as if a badger or a bobcat shows up.

Take her out and hunt her, it's alot more fun than honey dos.

Good luck, and good hunting.

gonzaga
_________________________
Tighten up your helmet and grab your crayons Turbo.....this could get bumpy....

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#2022406 - 10/19/11 08:44 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: emeraldterriers1]
Aaron_Proffitt Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 516
Loc: Elgin, OK
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
read the 1st post... the dog has already brought back 10 to 15 coyotes, has it sucessfully decoyed every coyote it has seen? do the math that dog has probably seen its share of coyotes already, why mess with a coon? if the dog is worth its salt it will chase a coon anyway.
coyote1758 states it will chase cats,cows and yotes you really think you would have to "work" it on a coon? i think i would work on leaving the livestock alone.


I don't know where you think that his dog won't ever have to fight a coyote as you mentioned earlier . Like it's some kind of odd scenario. It will eventually happen and I'd like a dog to have the confidence to address it.

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#2022417 - 10/19/11 09:11 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: gonzaga]
knockemdown Offline
suburban redneck

Registered: 02/19/03
Posts: 4744
Loc: NY
The extent of my 'trash breaking' so far has been with deer & livestock. The rest is fair game, as far as I'm concerned. And after a spell, the pup has pretty much figgerd out what we'z be huntin' purdy quik... wink

Case in point, these pics are from the same day back in late February.

Morning, treeing like a champ...


Afternoon, bringing a nice coyote back to me...


Take your dog calling as much as you can! If the pup has 1/2 a brain, it'll start to realize that when daddy sits down & makes funny noises, then coyotes come to play. If the pup has already seen 10-15 coyote kilt, then I'd keep doing exactly what you are doing (CALLING coyotes wink )

Showing the pup a coon might get him riled up, but that isn't going to help it decoy a coyote any better.

If ya show him this...

and this...

your cur will likely get good at this...

and this

and this...


So if that's what you want, then show him a couple coon laugh


but if you want this:

then keep doing this...


Don't make this chit any harder than it has to be. There is no rigid boot camp guidelines to making a dog other than showing it the right game. So just keep taking your pup out & hopefully, it'll figure stuff out to your satisfaction...

Good luck & enjoy your pup!!!

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#2022786 - 10/19/11 07:45 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: Aaron_Proffitt]
emeraldterriers1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 697
Loc: kansas
Originally Posted By: Aaron_Proffitt
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
read the 1st post... the dog has already brought back 10 to 15 coyotes, has it sucessfully decoyed every coyote it has seen? do the math that dog has probably seen its share of coyotes already, why mess with a coon? if the dog is worth its salt it will chase a coon anyway.
coyote1758 states it will chase cats,cows and yotes you really think you would have to "work" it on a coon? i think i would work on leaving the livestock alone.


I don't know where you think that his dog won't ever have to fight a coyote as you mentioned earlier . Like it's some kind of odd scenario. It will eventually happen and I'd like a dog to have the confidence to address it.


does he have to fight a coyote? no he doesnt rolleyes #1 a coyote will kill a lap dog and eat it.it's gonna try to run your cur (or airedale) out of its territory. if a dog that sizes up with a coyote a coyote will back off,period. it doesnt have the luxury of a full belly of food every night, or vet care, or someone watching over its shoulder with a gun. coyotes or any wild animal for that matter gets hurt it dies. its called flight or fight thumbup1 if cornered it will fight but will opt for flight if theres any chance.
so lets say you wound a coyote, your dog does a great job trailing it to the end and bays... did he do his job? or does he have to rag on a coyote that has a 50 grain bullet that tore off his front shoulder off or the bullet that went into the guts? if that makes you stand a little taller thinking your dog just whooped a coyote, well so be it. a fellows ego is alot for a dog to carry.
_________________________
all i can say is WOW

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#2022787 - 10/19/11 07:47 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: emeraldterriers1]
emeraldterriers1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 697
Loc: kansas
knockemdown,i would say he has figured the game... and likes it.
_________________________
all i can say is WOW

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#2022850 - 10/19/11 08:55 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: emeraldterriers1]
gonzaga Offline
Die Hard Member with a vengeance

Registered: 01/22/02
Posts: 4365
Loc: Raton, NM U.S.A.
Nice pics knockemdown, that dog can jump.
_________________________
Tighten up your helmet and grab your crayons Turbo.....this could get bumpy....

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#2023110 - 10/20/11 09:01 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: gonzaga]
knockemdown Offline
suburban redneck

Registered: 02/19/03
Posts: 4744
Loc: NY
Thanks guys, but he needs ALOT more coyotes in front of him to get to where I'd say he really knows what he's doing with 'em.
I know there are some guys that easily put more coyotes in front of their dog in two weeks than I could every hope to in a season here. But that ain't stopping us from trying & having a good time of it... smile

As for treeing coons & ditch tigers, he's kinda had that part 'built in' from a young age. Just gotta hope he don't skewer his own self at the tree with all that pogostickin'! Nice to see he wants the meat though. Coon kill season opens next week... wink

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#2024026 - 10/21/11 10:41 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: emeraldterriers1]
Aaron_Proffitt Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 516
Loc: Elgin, OK
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
Originally Posted By: Aaron_Proffitt
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
read the 1st post... the dog has already brought back 10 to 15 coyotes, has it sucessfully decoyed every coyote it has seen? do the math that dog has probably seen its share of coyotes already, why mess with a coon? if the dog is worth its salt it will chase a coon anyway.
coyote1758 states it will chase cats,cows and yotes you really think you would have to "work" it on a coon? i think i would work on leaving the livestock alone.


I don't know where you think that his dog won't ever have to fight a coyote as you mentioned earlier . Like it's some kind of odd scenario. It will eventually happen and I'd like a dog to have the confidence to address it.


if that makes you stand a little taller thinking your dog just whooped a coyote, well so be it. a fellows ego is alot for a dog to carry.


We're looking at different sides of the same coin. When I take mine out, we head out figuring that they probably won't have to scrap with a healthy coyote . And for the most part that's true. Probably 98 % of the time. Knockem' hasn't said that he's an ADC guy and will be doing denning work, trapping using drags, or batting clean up for aerial guys who have to use non-toxic shot ( BRILLIANT PLAN BY THE WAY, USDA !!!) But he did say he'd like his dog to know that it's teeth are good for more than just eating. I figure the place to start with that might not be using a healthy, foot-loose coyote. I have had one dog over the years that could take on a coyote one to one and that was a stag named "Tut". Tut was pretty exceptional. But I think any dog that goes into the field in pursuit of coyotes might wanna have some fire in it's belly as I guarantee a situation will arise that has Knockem' and dog in a situation where it's handy.

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