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#2019167 - 10/14/11 07:31 PM should you use a coon for training???
coyote1758 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 489
Loc: nichlosville,ky
do you guys use a coon for training?My dog is 10 mos. old and the only thing she knows what her teeth are good for is eating.She has brought back 10-15 yotes as a decoy.Is letting her chase or bit a coon a good or bad ideal.Need your thoughts.


Edited by coyote1758 (10/14/11 07:53 PM)

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#2019177 - 10/14/11 07:59 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: coyote1758]
emeraldterriers1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 697
Loc: kansas
i dont have any decoy dogs but i would have to ask why? a coon wont decoy. if you decide i would try a runt coon first... it might be more than a 10 mo old pup wants.
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all i can say is WOW

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#2019299 - 10/14/11 10:04 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: emeraldterriers1]
TonyTebbe Offline
Retired PM Staff.

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 18681
Loc: Lovington, NM
I feel that using a coon for training would be just fine. I start my young pups on rabbits. It teaches them how to hunt, how to range, what the "sick" command is, gunfire, how to come back to the beeper collar, even in the heat of the chase, etc... My dogs are straight up coyote dogs, but will take down a rabbit, badger or hog, if given the chance.

I used rabbits, cats, and coons for training my greyhound catch dogs, back when I used to run them.

Tony
_________________________
Loving my Kids, Loving my Woman, Loving my Dogs, Loving my Job..........Loving my Life!

Tony Tebbe

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#2019410 - 10/15/11 12:34 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: TonyTebbe]
emeraldterriers1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 697
Loc: kansas
Originally Posted By: TonyTebbe
I feel that using a coon for training would be just fine. I start my young pups on rabbits. It teaches them how to hunt, how to range, what the "sick" command is, gunfire, how to come back to the beeper collar, even in the heat of the chase, etc... My dogs are straight up coyote dogs, but will take down a rabbit, badger or hog, if given the chance.

I used rabbits, cats, and coons for training my greyhound catch dogs, back when I used to run them.

Tony


there is quiet a difference between greyhounds and decoy dogs...greyhounds kill decoy dogs decoy cool what is the benefit of letting a decoy dog chase a coon? is its job to bring it back to the gun? or just run out and shred anything you "sic" them on? or are you talking about being able to "beeper collar" it off?
_________________________
all i can say is WOW

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#2019458 - 10/15/11 01:52 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: TonyTebbe]
Catdawg Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/13/09
Posts: 121
Loc: Nevada
Originally Posted By: TonyTebbe
I feel that using a coon for training would be just fine. I start my young pups on rabbits. It teaches them how to hunt, how to range, what the "sick" command is, gunfire, how to come back to the beeper collar, even in the heat of the chase, etc... My dogs are straight up coyote dogs, but will take down a rabbit, badger or hog, if given the chance.

I used rabbits, cats, and coons for training my greyhound catch dogs, back when I used to run them.

Tony


I agree with Tony, your dog is young and using a Coon should only encourage your dog and if it has any game drive at all, this training should bring that drive to the forefront. You may only end up with a dog that finds Coons for you, if you hunt where Coon are around.

If you want a decoy dog only, you can use a Coon to get that drive alive and then just take the dog on stand after stand, calling Coyotes in and let it happen naturally. Most of the time Coons are not necessary for dogs that have the drive naturally.

I have trained a few decoy dogs that made real good Coyote dogs, but you wouldn't have been able to tell from the first couple stands, that I wasn't training them for ducks or who knows what?

If the dog has what it takes to be a real decoy dog, Coons are not necessary. All it will take is exposure to Coyotes and the different situations that come from many, many stands, both successful and not so.

My best decoy dogs I have ever raised spoke Coyote naturally and played the game of decoy dog very well after they had a few killed to them. They realized if they did they're part, there was a dead Coyote for them to chew on and that was all they ever needed.

Best of luck to you, but don't try and use a screwdriver to drive in a nail. Get dogs that are bred to be decoy dogs and let their natural instinct kick in.

If you are using a dog not bred for decoying, and they have what it takes. Killing Coyotes in front of them and letting them learn the game is what it takes.

Both ways can make decoy dogs, I just had a lot more luck using the tool made for the task.

Take care and whatever you do, have fun!

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#2019468 - 10/15/11 02:18 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: emeraldterriers1]
TonyTebbe Offline
Retired PM Staff.

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 18681
Loc: Lovington, NM
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
Originally Posted By: TonyTebbe
I feel that using a coon for training would be just fine. I start my young pups on rabbits. It teaches them how to hunt, how to range, what the "sick" command is, gunfire, how to come back to the beeper collar, even in the heat of the chase, etc... My dogs are straight up coyote dogs, but will take down a rabbit, badger or hog, if given the chance.

I used rabbits, cats, and coons for training my greyhound catch dogs, back when I used to run them.

Tony


there is quiet a difference between greyhounds and decoy dogs...greyhounds kill decoy dogs decoy cool what is the benefit of letting a decoy dog chase a coon? is its job to bring it back to the gun? or just run out and shred anything you "sic" them on? or are you talking about being able to "beeper collar" it off?


I guess I expect alot more out of my decoy dogs. I use them 12 months out of the year.

Tony
_________________________
Loving my Kids, Loving my Woman, Loving my Dogs, Loving my Job..........Loving my Life!

Tony Tebbe

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#2019493 - 10/15/11 07:25 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: TonyTebbe]
coyote1758 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 489
Loc: nichlosville,ky
Thanks guys for the help

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#2019549 - 10/15/11 09:22 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: TonyTebbe]
emeraldterriers1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 697
Loc: kansas
Originally Posted By: TonyTebbe
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
Originally Posted By: TonyTebbe
I feel that using a coon for training would be just fine. I start my young pups on rabbits. It teaches them how to hunt, how to range, what the "sick" command is, gunfire, how to come back to the beeper collar, even in the heat of the chase, etc... My dogs are straight up coyote dogs, but will take down a rabbit, badger or hog, if given the chance.

I used rabbits, cats, and coons for training my greyhound catch dogs, back when I used to run them.

Tony


there is quiet a difference between greyhounds and decoy dogs...greyhounds kill decoy dogs decoy cool what is the benefit of letting a decoy dog chase a coon? is its job to bring it back to the gun? or just run out and shred anything you "sic" them on? or are you talking about being able to "beeper collar" it off?


I guess I expect alot more out of my decoy dogs. I use them 12 months out of the year.

Tony



catdawg summed it up well, if they got it they got it. i would think (maybe i'm wrong) decoying is all bluff and intimidation.... why would a dog have to fight or bite to decoy a coyote? (i know you said in self defence)but how many do you shoot saving your decoy dogs life? tony i'm not knocking your dog ,its good that you use him 12 mo out of the year but did a coon make him the dog he is today?
_________________________
all i can say is WOW

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#2019815 - 10/15/11 06:29 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: emeraldterriers1]
TonyTebbe Offline
Retired PM Staff.

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 18681
Loc: Lovington, NM
No, coons did not make Gunner. Heck, we don't even have any around here. But...my point is, don't be afraid to use other game to bring the game drive out of a young dog. I've done it for a long time and continue it in my training programs. It sounds like I expect more from my decoy dogs, than just decoying. Trail and recovery of injured is a huge part of what I expect a dog to do. Baying or holding a coyote is expected.

Tony
_________________________
Loving my Kids, Loving my Woman, Loving my Dogs, Loving my Job..........Loving my Life!

Tony Tebbe

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#2019860 - 10/15/11 07:35 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: TonyTebbe]
coyote1758 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 489
Loc: nichlosville,ky
Thanks tony,I plan on useing my do year around.Not just for decoy work but for tracking and taking some attenion off me.Alot of the hunters on this forum use the mojo decoy and others,sam my dog is a iive distraction and it works.Plan on using her alot and the coon did get her pumped up with me sicking her on it.She will do the same with cats, cows or yotes but will ignore all of them if I tell her,That will do.Yhanks for all the help guys.

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#2019906 - 10/15/11 08:38 PM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: coyote1758]
emeraldterriers1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 697
Loc: kansas
coyote1758
hunt the he!! out of her and good luck.
_________________________
all i can say is WOW

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#2020978 - 10/17/11 09:51 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: emeraldterriers1]
knockemdown Offline
suburban redneck

Registered: 02/19/03
Posts: 4744
Loc: NY
Coyotes don't climb trees and coon don't chase dogs.
I don't think it's too much to ask a dog to be able to trail/tree a coon and decoy a coyote. But I sure wouldn't use a 'chase' animal to teach the opposite behavior?

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#2021529 - 10/18/11 12:30 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: knockemdown]
Duane@ssu Offline
Retired moderator

Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 4095
Loc: Gods Country
I think it depends on the "objective", if your trying to fire up a dog, I think its fine. Wouldn't be the first dog that was run on coon, or any other game for that matter, to build confidence.
Also, many "decoy dogs", are used for other jobs, a large part of the year.
Here there are so few coons, we don't have to worry about dogs hunting them, when they should be working yotes. I have used coons on occasion to "jazz" a slow starting pup.
I can't say its the best idea, but it dam sure ain't the worst.
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"IF YOU'RE GONNA TALK SMART,YOU BETTER RIDE A FAST HORSE"








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#2021638 - 10/18/11 09:14 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: Duane@ssu]
Aaron_Proffitt Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 516
Loc: Elgin, OK
Their is a benefit to utilizing coons and decoy dogs/tollers. Association.

Coons respond so readily to calls that in no time a dog begins to associate the whole set-up from loading up in the truck to setting up for a calling sequence as impending action. Think about it like this ....would you work a young pointer or spaniel in a field that wasn't holding birds ? Of course not. A bird dog needs birds. Conversely, a fur dog needs fur.

When I load up my Airedales, I want them to expect action. Coons help provide that "rush" that keeps them wanting more .

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#2021658 - 10/18/11 09:55 AM Re: should you use a coon for training??? [Re: Aaron_Proffitt]
TonyTebbe Offline
Retired PM Staff.

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 18681
Loc: Lovington, NM
In addition, you wouldn't work a young pointer or spaniel on rooster pheasant. You'd start them on pigeons and quail. Same goes for young coyote dog pups. Dogs get excited and learn from action.

Tony
_________________________
Loving my Kids, Loving my Woman, Loving my Dogs, Loving my Job..........Loving my Life!

Tony Tebbe

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