When Breeding or Buying......

Devin69

New member
I would like to hear from some of you that are breeding for decoy dogs. Or lets take it a step further, lets even hear from you guys that have bought a pup or dog that are planning on decoying with it.
I want to hear what you expect or what you are wanting to see out of your pup or the cross you are making.
Is nose important? Cold, Med or hot.
Grit? Hard, med or soft?
Brains? This should be good.
How important is it to get a pup or make a cross from Proven decoy dogs and I dont' mean dogs that bark or bite a coyote.
I have seen to many dogs that have been bred on this forum that have not been proven and some that have even been picked up from the pound with no hunting background at all.
Does a certain breed of dog make a better decoy dog?
As many of you know there is no set breed for a decoy dog and the closest that I think has come about is the Dorn dog and at a second is the kemmer.
This could be a good discussion. And I will put my input in later if we get a dicussion going.
I am not asking to figure out the golden cross because I know what I want and have been breeding in that direction for many years now. I am asking to see what kind of responce you all come up with.
Tony, I will put you on the spot since you put more pups on the ground than anyone and because I don't want you to sit back and read all the responces and say I agree...like usual.lol
If you are going to get all butt hurt cuz I ask a question or put you on the spot then don't even chim in because you probly don't have much to ad anyway.lol
There is no wrong or right answer to the questions and the dog I like you may not. If your dog is a poodle and it serves you then that is the best dog in the world for you. So DON'T get offended.
 
That is a tough ?.I would think that most of the people buying these dogs are not going to hunt as hard as a very few on here.Most of them have a family they have to fit into and maybe hunt 1 time a week,and do not have 5000 ac. to run on or hunt.I bought a dog that would fit all of these and is a buddy to hunt with.Every guy would like to have the best dog in the country to hunt with, but most do not have the time,land,or training to keep a dog like this at peak levels.All this is just a opionion.Good luck with this post,it should be some good reading.
 
My dog has to be good around the house, first and formost. Because of living in the city, I can't hunt them everyday as I would like. My ideal dog would be med nosed, gritty as [beeep], and the brains of a border collie. Would I do a dog like that justice, probably not. I'm happy with my 2 dogs i have, 1 is out of proven dogs and 1 is just an everyday mutt. When i take them to the field, they range good, aren't afraid of coyotes, and will blood trail decent. All in all, for my lifestyle i'm very happy with my dogs while most guys on here wouldn't even feed them. I'm sure my ideas of dogs will change throughout the years as I continue to learn and really figures out what works. Great topic Devin!!!
 
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I'm a catahoula x cur kind of guy, I like a dog med in size with ample speed and the grit to get all things done. That said I like 'em with the brains to know when to turn the grit on and when not to. I don't want a dog charging in after the first coyote he sees looking for a fight. I like a dog with a med. nose who ranges short to medium as well.
 
I researched and came to the conclusion for my needs I needed a BMC. I wanted a smaller BMC and found what I was needing out of working hog dog stock she is about 35 lbs. She is quick, has a good nose, and mildly gritty. Started her with the basic ground work and commands I wanted her to know. Started useing a shock collar with toner at about 6 months. I started taking her out on a lead with me calling at about 8 months. At a year I let her off the lead and let her engage a double I called in. She engaged them and I toned her back I had 2 coyotes in my lap. Next stand I called in a single and let her engage and she ignored the tone on the shock collar and ran one out of the country. I figured I would have to go find her and pretty soon she came back unscaved with no coyote in tow. About 2 weeks later I was transfered with my job to Texas. I have alot of time invested and a dog that I was hopeing to get going that has been penned up all summer. So in my opinion I probably will end up ruining a good dog. I dont have the time or the property I had when I got her. I am friends with some ADC guys that use decoy dogs and have seen the final product of a well trained dog. It takes alot of time and hunting with a dog to attain the results of a good decoy dog. My advice to someone who is wanting a good decoy dog is you have to have the time and patience to hunt them alot. If you dont you will probably have a bored dog that will just get in trouble at the house for being a bored working dog. If all else fails with my situation I have one heck of a deer tracking dog because she has really paid for herself in recovering a couple of deer that we couldnt find. So if thats the case im good with it because my 12 year old son and 3 year old daughter love her.
Regards, Scott
Lockney, TX
 
My BMC at 8 months

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OK, since I've had my yapper going here of late, I'll play.

For one, I'm not a breeder, just a recreational hunter. I'm still figuring out how to consistently call coyotes, so I'm waaay behind the curve here!
I got a pup mainly for companionship, but also to try messing with coyotes on stand and to tree coon at night.

My pup's momma is supposed to be the 'real deal' on both big game & small. His daddy has turned out to be a great coon dog and used recreationally on coyotes. Can't say that they are 'proven' decoy dogs though. Simply stated, I took a chance on my pup. But then again, don't we all? His pedigree (not papered) looked to be 'gamey' enough to take that chance and the guys I spoke with who have similarly bred dogs were all pleased with them...

Being that I wanted him to tree coon too, I'd like a 'medium' nose. I'm just a rookie here, so I'm going on my understanding of 'medium'. At 15months, I darn sure know he'll track & tree a coon in short order, so for that I'm quite pleased!
He'll also wind a coyote on stand, I've seen him 'perk' up and let me know one is coming before I see it. And he's also trailed off on a spooked coyote, so that's good enough nose for me...

Grit? I'd rather not be patching up my dog after every hunt, and a coon don't need to have a gator mouthed bear behind it dog to climb a tree, so grit is not really a priority.
My lil' guy happens to be prety scrappy, but smart at the same time. I seen him pull a coon off a tree & keep him on bayed the ground
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, but I don't want a kamikaze gator that just wades into jaws & claws. And on stand, that much aggression will likely scare off more coyotes that would otherwise be 'decoyed' into range by a dog that knew the game being played.
As for baying, seems like my pup is a natural. He's cornered & bayed several coon on the ground and will bay & wool a downed coyote. I haven't showed him any 'restrained' coyotes, but from the coon he's caught & bayed, he's smart enough to know which is the business end!

Brains, hmmm... that's subjective. Not sure if you can relialbly breed for 'brains', I'll leave that to the experts. But it's pretty easy to tell if a dog's got any sense to him by how easily they respond to training and how well they seem to figure stuff out. I really haven't taught my pup anything, other than basic commands. I just put him in the woods and he showed me what he can do very early on.
I think 'brains' or sense is THE most important part of making a decoy dog. And from watching some real good ones, you can just see how cleverly they are duping the coyotes into range. Absolutely incredible!!! The decoy dog can sense the mood of the coyote & react accordingly. It doesn't push a timid coyote too hard, or the coyote is GONE. It is beautiful to watch a hung up coyote get lured 350 yds across a flat to within 10 yds of the gun. That to me, is a DECOY DOG!!!

Also regarding brains, I want my dog to recognize & go to howls to engage a coyote & get the game rolling. And I want my dog to wind a coyote that I may not know is there. Initially, I didn't want my pup out of my sight AT ALL! But, after watching him develop, he seems smart, fast & tough enough to stay clear of trouble. So, my opinion has changed on that & I now trust him to leave my sight to hunt. When I say fast, I mean FAST!!!

Regarding coyotes in general, our NY coyotes are just plain BIG and they are rarely alone! So, I don't see any need to 'game test' my 48 lb pup against a pack of 40-50 lb. coyotes!!! He WILL lose and it may cost him his life. This is a game to us, but not the coyotes! They play for KEEPS & fight dirty. From the houndsmen I know that run 'em here, these big coyotes are a handful for a couple 75 lb. hounds to handle, so a single cur dog is not gonna get that job done. Therefore, NO need to emphasize or dwell on too much grit in a decoy dog. It'll just lead to vet bills, or worse...

That part may not be applicable in other parts of the country, but I'm erring on the side of safety for my pup. When he goes out of sight on stand, my ballz are 1/2 choked up in my throat until he comes back from a loop! So far so good, but sooner or later, something bad will happen where I can't be of help. So he'll have to rely on his brains, grit & speed to get out of a jam. Hope it never comes to that, but I'm prepared for that eventuality.

As a 'decoy' dog, I'm wanting my pup to DECOY the coyote, not chase or bite it! My main priority is to shoot coyotes, so if the dog is spooking coyotes, he's not doing me any good, at all. So he'll either stay home, or I'll keep him sitting next to me & not send him ranging out.

If I happen to wound a coyote, naturally, I'd like the dog will trail & bay, but I'll be there to finish what I started. The pup can have his reward after I say so. This has never happened in his short life, so I can't say if he'll do it, or not.


Remember, I'm just a hopeless newbie idiot about ALL of this stuff! And what I want from my dog has already changed since owning him, since we're both learning as we go. And that's all I'm trying to do! Figure out what will work for me in my area and if a dog really IS a benefit, or not.
Regardless of whether my dog don't work out on stand, or my coyotes don't want to decoy, then I've still a got great companion dog that'll tree me coons & be my pal...

Looking forward to hearing input from others!
 
I had a guy drive in from AZ to pick up a pup this morning, and just got back from checking my traps. I will sit down and type up my thoughts on the subject in a bit, before heading out to train dogs.

Tony
 
This is deja vu, as we had this very same topic a few months ago. It's a good one though.

First a little background. This'll probably get long and boring, but I think it's due, so yall know what's going through my head with my crosses/needs and what the he// I'm doing.
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When I was younger, I spent the majority of my time with guys like myself, ones that had 5 to 30 dogs on the chain or in the kennel. We all had a couple coonhounds and a beagle or two, but for the most part we all had coyote dogs. Anywhere from Croghan or July foxhounds to Greyhound crosses. Each dog had it's specific job, from strike dog to running dog to catch dogs. That was just a way of life...loading up 8 or 9 dogs, per truck and going coyote hunting.

As I got older and the 3rd and 4th child came along, my career took off and we transferred from our home town to bigger and bigger towns, the coyote dogs came to a close and I focused on just calling coyotes, exclusively. Twelve years later, when I decided to stop chasing the almighty American dollar and had enough with promotions and moves across the country, I started Predator University.

Our first season was a boomer. I lived out of a motel for 4 months a guided my first clients. We called up and killed a mess of coyotes and cats. In a series of 2 nights, I had a client on one of my ranches in TX that killed 4 bobcat and injured 5 others that couldn't be recovered. We'd call all night, then spend the daytime trying to bloodtrail and track the injured cats, after we exhausted the search on the stand. That's when I decided that I need to get a dog again...period! A few weeks later, I had another client that killed 12 coyotes in one night. It was February, it was cold, furs were primed up, and we were calling in pairs. The ranch was wide open grassland without a twig or bush growing on it. Stand after stand, he'd drop the first coyote, then I'd focus all the attention and spotlight on the 2nd one to get it stopped. By time the action was over on each stand, we lost track of where the first coyote fell in the sea of grass and blackness. We only recovered 4 of the 12 coyotes. I was hellbound to get a dog now!

A few months later, our house finally sold in Iowa and I went back to move the family to Predator University headquarters in NM. That's where my search began to find the right dog for the job. For the prior few years, I had always be intrigued by Mike Granger's amazing stories and pictures of his dog Bubba. The decoying work really interested me, as it does anyone, but most importantly a single dog that could get the job done as a calling dog. I had like curs, ever sense I ran hogs with Glenn Guess, down in TX one year. Hot nosed, high energy, gritty, close working, but at the same time, friendly as all get out. My hounds never really seeked attention and were not a "family dog".

Well, after alot of research and reading, I decided on a BMC/Catahoula pup from a litter that Ryan posted up for sale here. His name was Buckshot, but I decided to call him "Gunner", as the name was fitting, since I was the "caller". When I picked him up from Ryan and his family, I told Ryan, "I'll make this dog famous." I spent alot of time training him that summer, with the advice from Devin, Duane, Kelly, and others. Their biggest advice was to put a "bunch of fur" in front of him, when he finally turned it on. That was my focus. I put 200 coyotes in front of him, a few days before his 1st birthday. Gunner get's his 200th coyote! Not only was he deadly on coyotes, but he had the best manners. He knew no stranger, warmed up to anyone and would lay his head in their lap within 2-3 seconds. He would pay more attention on stand than most calling partners. He was what I was looking for.

Client after client wanted a dog from me, just like Gunner. To me, he wasn't the perfect dog, but dang sure got the job done. We didn't loose a single coyote, cat, coon, fox, hog, etc... the first 2 season after using him. There were some things I wanted to work with him on, one was grit and the other was to get better at ranging out and decoying. Those two things came better with age and experience and he is still learning. He still isn't perfect, but I wouldn't trade him for anything in the world. I've turned down even $10k offers for him, from clients. The next best thing I could do for them, was to produce them pups out of him that were like him. I was called up by a TX hunting radio show host, that season. He wanted to interview me on his show. I was humbled that they wanted to know more about my coyote calling and my business, but quickly realized that I was just going to be the voice for my dog. They wanted to know about Gunner! We filmed a TV show, in October one season. When it aired in January, Gunner quickly became the star of the whole dang show. I got a mess of phone calls, as soon as it aired. A few booked hunts, but the majority want to know alot more about Gunner and if I had any pups out of him available. Imagine that!
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You see, I'm a pretty smart guy and I realized that the majority of the predator callers in the country are recreational callers. They have to beg, plead, and barter with the wife to get a dog. They aren't going to have a kennel of dogs in the back yard, like me and my buddies did, when we I was younger. They want ONE dog. That dog would become the family dog during the week, and be the calling partner on the weekend. It would be the dog that gets is toenails painted by their daughter, curls up next to the wife and eats popcorn on movie night, goes to the park on Sunday afternoon with the family, but will work it's tail off on Saturday and Sunday mornings for their master to help decoy and recover coyotes. That's what I sought out and am seeking out to create and/or train.

Ok, so now it's time to start producing some pups out of Gunner. I wanted to add more grit to the mix, so I searched out 2 breeds, known for it. I purchased a female pit puppy, that's parents had the right size and super personalities. In the past, I had great luck with my catch dogs, by crossing pitbull with my greyhounds. The other search was for a Jagd Terrier. Knowing they were too small for Gunner to breed, I jumped on the opportunity that Devin put up, when he asked if anyone was interested, if he crossed his Jagd with his Cur. Since then, I was impressed with my research of the Texas Blue Lacy. I sought out one from a hog hunter in TX. She was 7/8 lacy, and 1/8 mastiff. I was a bit worried about the size she may be, but after seeing her and spending some time with her, I was satisfied and acquired her. I raised the females from pups and decided to breed them once they met my criteria of personality, family oriented, brains, and flat coyote killers. They would be the perfect mates for Gunner, to begin my quest of producing the line of dogs that I want. I've got a couple more females as backup plans, in case undesirable traits come out of the crossing, but so far, I'm pleased with the results. All my females come from lines of hunting dogs, either coyote or hog dogs. I've culled a mess of dogs the past couple of years, for not having what it takes. Fortunately, none of them have been from my breedings. Who knows where I'll end up with my en devour. It may be the most mixed bred, ugly dog on earth.
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As far as nose, for what I do, a Medium to Hot nose is just right. I'm calling coyotes and a 12 hour track doesn't really apply. Grit? Well, I want a dog with enough grit to handle a coyote, but also one that I can absolutely trust around children and other family pets. Brains? Of course. I don't want a hard headed dog. I want one that'll sick after a coyote on command and spin on a dime when it hears the beeper collar. I want a dog that w With experience, they'll get the decoying part figured out, by understanding that it's not about pursuit, but moreso, picking a fight and coming back to the Alpha Leader. They need to be able to read a coyote and react accordingly. Sometimes passive, sometimes aggressive, and sometimes "catty". Gunner is starting to do it naturally, but I've been boned a few nights, when he's tried decoying coyotes that were injured. We lost a couple/three that way. He's still figuring it out.

I think it's important to get a pup out of proven decoy dogs, just like choosing ANY hunting dog. That being said, there is never any guarantee that they'll turn out worth a crap or be anything like their parents. I have a very hard time believing that anyone has a line of dogs that instinctively decoy coyotes, like the English Pointer breed instinctively points birds. That breed has been around since the 16th Century. I focus more on the traits of the parents. The balance of grit, desire for fur, personality, family oriented, brains, attentive, etc... and expect the decoying to come out through training. In addition, I focus on the breeder and find one that is working on producing a dog that fits the same bill as what you want in one.

Sorry I was so long winded.

Tony
 
I have killed a lot of coyotes over the dog I have right now.She is a catahoula that comes from a good hunting background.She is not the most agressive dog I have ever had but is one of the smarter ones.She will fight a coyote but most of the time I think she avoids it as she knows I am going to kill it.She sees 90% of the coyotes before I do and I dont have to tell her to go get them as she knows exactly what we are doing and has learned what to do to pull them into my range for the shot.She is a very fast dog and very agile.When she comes in heat I am going to get her bread to another proven in the field dog as I want to keep what I have. She is very good family dog and pritty protective over my family. I use her year round and I know for sure she increases my ability to kill coyotes and other game I use her on
 
Ok So what I am getting from all of you is you want a family dog........Come on guys, all these dogs are going to be great family dogs and great companions. You know that as well as I do. I use mine as tools and are treated as such but I gaurantee that I could put anyone of my dogs in your homes and they would be great family dogs and companion dogs. Tony is picking up on this also and is pushing it in his ad he just posted.lol I would bet to say that any dog you pick up is going to be a great family dog and companion dog. I would be leary of the Pit Tony and a few Okkies are breeding into it, but that is another debate.
Kind of funny how this post is kind of the oppistie of what I expected...I expected the guys just getting into the doggin to come up with the lame responces and the guys breeding to come up with the good ones. Just the oppisite.
And yes Tony it was brought up before but never did take off because nobody would decribe anything in detail.
So.................
Most everyone has talked about Range.
What is a good range?
Most have said they want a Med. Nose. Why?
Most have wanted alot of grit. Why?
I know everyone hunts different, maybe explain how you hunt or what you use your dog for.
Is it just for tolling?
or decoy ?
or recovery, ?
or trapline?
Or all of the above?
Can you have one dog for all or do you think you need a different dog for different tasks?
I like the fact that even though you can't hunt all the time you are using your dog for different things. I like to see the different game that you are switching over on. Lets hear about that.
Good posts guys. Tony come on step up. Drop the sales pitch and lets BS about dogs.
 
Dude, do you know how long it took me to type all of that up?
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I wasted half of my work day doing it. I wrote it straight from the heart, trying to tell my story of where I came from, where I am at, and where I am trying to go. I typed it up, no different than if I was sitting around and explaining it to a buddy of mine. To call it a lame response, an ad, and sales pitch, kinda pizzes me off. I've got to salvage whats left of the day and get some work done. All I got accomplished was seeing a puppy off this morning to a customer, check traps, worm all the dogs, and give parvo vaccines to a litter. My "to do" list is 5 times that long for today.
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Tony
 
Devin, Did you really expect anything different? Most of these guys (no offence, i was there once too) Dont have a clue what they want from their dog, other than "it has to be good with the kids"

For a guy who is getting his first hunting dog, that is probably number one. Not all these guys live out in the sticks like you and I. I was playing with grown treeing walkers while i was in dypers, but i was raised a little different that lots of these guys, lol.

What im trying to say, is i think that a lot of guys want things, because thats what they hear and see to be good. As you know, in order to figure out what you want in a dog as far as hunt goes, you have to go through lots of dogs, lots of time in those dogs, and figure out what you do like, what you dont like, and all in between, and learn as time passes what your perfect dog is, and why.

I dont decoy, have no use for a decoy dog, so i stayed out of it. But since you added the last, i will chime in, as i have and do use dogs for almost everying i do.

Dont matter what kind of dog it is, I want lots of grit. Why, i dont like clubing critters when my hounds have perfectly good teeth. I want a dog that will shut something down fast, not lots of noise and ruckess, just dead critters. I want a dog who will fight just as hard if he is alone, or if there is 4 dogs there. Lots of dogs are tough when they have help, but no help and they bay and bay. No good for me. Like you, my dogs are tools. Tools get broken when you use them. I hunt knowing just that. Sometimes you can fix a broken tool, sometimes you cant. But if you dont use your tools as intended, why have them.

Range depends on what im doing, dont need to explain that too much. Running hounds, get out there as far as it takes to find the game. Dog used on trapline, stay pretty close untill i sick you...... I know range is more important for decoy dogs.
 
Belle my dog sits next to me or some were pritty close to me and is watching for a coyote all the time while I am calling.If she takes off running there is a coyote comming or one that I have not seen but she will let you know were it is. How the coyote responds to her will determin how she acts for example if the coyote turns and runns away she will really turn on the burners and chase for maybe 100yrds or or so and then bark at it if it stops and starts to come back she will stand here ground until the coyote is maybe 10 to 15 yards and then she will come toward me watching the coyote all the way in to make sure they are comming.She will adjust here speed as needed to keep the coyote comming. A dominate coyote that stands his ground she will run to and come back and usually the coyote will follow.I have used her on tracking crippled deer for friends of mine when I was in the panhandle of ok,I have used he to heard cattle,I use her on wild hogs to push them out of the brush.I take her pheasant hunting she is not a pointer but will flush and find dead birds.She is with me everyday and one of my best friends because she never give up and never say she cant go hunt or complains about anything
 
I just reread what I had posted and found that I didnt put any of the dislike that I have for her. She has never offered to pay for any gas and when she has gas and is in the truck I dont want it.Sometimes her breath is terrible.My wife dont like getting here hair on her cothing from riding in my truck. For some reason she dont like riding in a dog box as if the truck is full and I have her in the dog box ever time you go from stand to stand she will go to the truck cab and not the dog box.Its a real nice box
 
Quote:Ok So what I am getting from all of you is you want a family dog........Come on guys, all these dogs are going to be great family dogs and great companions. You know that as well as I do. I use mine as tools and are treated as such but I gaurantee that I could put anyone of my dogs in your homes and they would be great family dogs and companion dogs.
I disagree Devin. Not ALL these dogs are going to be. I've culled dogs that show any aggression towards humans and have shot dogs while still on the chain, that tried biting or attacking me. Not ALL high powered coyote dogs are going to be great family dogs and great companions.

Quote:Tony is picking up on this also and is pushing it in his ad he just posted.lol
Re-read my post. It isn't an ad at all. It's my story of what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. I'm trying to produce dogs are best suited for what I do for a living, and what my clients are requesting in a dog. Simple as that.

Quote:And yes Tony it was brought up before but never did take off because nobody would decribe anything in detail.
It could be case that guys are leery of getting their replies pizzed on, when they do.
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This could be one of those historically good threads, but you're going to have to drop the smartazz comments, if you want me to join in.
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Tony
 
Great topic!

I have to gather up an old picture or two to get digitized before I can weigh in. In the mean time I'll hide and watch. Wanna see what the the ADC Men, The Guides and The Rec Guys have to say. Certainly three different perspectives that will have a lot of common needs but perhaps some differences in what they want in a Decoy Dog.
 
Jesse, that is the problem. There is alot of guys jsut breeding dogs to get puppies on the ground to make money, with no concideration to what makes a good dog to decoy with.
I was in hopes of bringing some points where guys could have a little knowedge about a coyote dog.
New guys to the sport can give insight to what they ahve learned along the way. Maybe they got screwed maybe they got everything they wanted. Maybe they have no idea and would like to ask questions.
Like I said Vern Dorn put more thought to developing a Decoy trap dog than anyone I have ever heard of. And those dogs are long , long gone.
I am on 6 generations of coyote dogs from my own stuff and I think I am close to where I want to be but I am sure They would not fit anyone else.
I think there could be laot of pointers to help new guys and maybe some hard headed old guys.lol
Tony, I just enjoy bustin your guts once in a while, I like to see if your followers are going to join in and SAVE you.lol
 
After being into hunting coyotes with a dog for a couple of years and seeing my dogs and not seeing what I wish I would here is what I would shoot for next time. My dogs are also family dogs so to get rid of isnt going to happen. I am not saying I am not happy with what I am feeding they do make a good team and I have a great time with them no matter what we are chasing.

While on stand I wish my dog would be at least 300 yards away from me at all times.

My dogs are pretty cold nosed and seem to spend allot of time chasing sign that to me seems to old to worry about. I think i would be happy with med to hot nosed.

I would like a dog with allot of grit or a hard dog as I have heard it put. I dont want to chase a dog and a coyote all over the country side. My dogs will put a tooth into a coyote but there is usually a lot of barking. I think it is the hound in Zipper and he wants them to run again so he can chase them (he loves to chase)and my female follows suit.

I use my dogs to decoy and recover on coyotes. I always have them with me and they will hunt whatever I am trying to kill. They will blood trail big game, badgers (they hate badgers), squirels, birds. If all I did was hunt coyotes they would probably be better at that but I am always hunting something and they seem to do well hunting multiple prey.

I have a great time with the dogs and when I thin down the pack I now have a better idea of what I will be looking for in the future.
 
Maybe you can give us some insight Devin. Can you teach a dog to range? I mean go out and stay out till you tell them to come back or is it something you get lucky with or do you breed for it. If you can teach a dog to go out and stay out how do you do it. Is grit something you can teach or is it only something that has to be bred into them?
 
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