How Many is acceptable????

yfzduner450

New member
This is a question from another post, I've seen a few guys get run off the board for their breeding practices, so my question to you guys is......How many litters a year is acceptable????
At what point is it more about the money then the dogs?? Does it just depend if the dogs will get hunted or not? Does it depend on "if there is a waiting list"? Would you buy a pup from a guy that say has 10 litters a year compared to 1-2, or does that even affect your decision?? At what point does a "backyard"(no ill meaning) breeder turn into a pup factory?

This is not geared directly at anyone, just some questions that i've got.
 
I guess if the breeding was planned and characteristics/traits of both dogs were considered for the litter how many ever litters would be okay as long as the dogs/pups weren't living in squalid conditions. Also if the person breeding had good intentions other than money (better working dogs overall, a better nose, grittier, etc) as the end result, then that would be fine. I have met people who culled (like took them out in the woods with a pistol type cull) dogs/pups that did not meet their standards. A lot may find that wrong (I'm still unsure about it myself), but people have more than likely been doing that for hundreds of years to produce the type of dog they want.

Not sure if my response answered anything lol.
 
Originally Posted By: yfzduner450This is a question from another post, I've seen a few guys get run off the board for their breeding practices, so my question to you guys is......How many litters a year is acceptable????


Acceptable to whom? I am not sure it should be of any concern to anyone how many litters someone else has, planned or otherwise. I assume your post was directed toward Tony and I am not sure why.
 
Originally Posted By: altabonita
Acceptable to whom?

The general public, I guess i should of changed the wording to "How many is ETHICAL?" My main question is, some people get run off for such practices while it is tolerated by others. I'm trying to determine where the line is drawn. Maybe it has nothing to do with the breeding practices but is more about if you like the person or not. I surely don't think someone should be breeding to every b!tch dog they can find. That to me shows it's more about the money then the quality of dog. That's why it is so hard to find quality bred dogs these days, and i'm not talking just hunting dogs.
 
There is more than one way it can be, "All about the Money."

In many industries/professions/etc an attempt to directly or indirectly control the supply (of decoy puppies for example) is made so as to create a demand so that others can make more money from their ample supply.

All animals I own are fixed! But to my way of thinking, the amount of puppies one whelps is not really any one else's business.

If left alone capitalism is good for the consumer, and the best providers of goods and services.

I say leave it alone and let'er buck!
 
I guess i should of changed the wording to "How many is ETHICAL?"

Whose ethics do we use? Yours, Humane Society, PETA or do we take a vote of PM members?

My main question is, some people get run off for such practices while it is tolerated by others.

How does anyone get “run off” based on how they how they breed their dogs?

I'm trying to determine where the line is drawn. Maybe it has nothing to do with the breeding practices but is more about if you like the person or not.

It appears to be obvious you don’t like the person your original post was directed toward.[/quote]
 
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Unless one is deaf, blind, and dumb, they'd know that this post is directed to me. My question back is "Why do YOU care?" Seriously...why do you feel that it's any of your business? Not wanting to come across as a smartazz, but I have no idea why you want to pass judgement on me and what I do.

I don't need to explain myself to anyone, but if you really want to know.....


I've had 4 litters this year, since January. Let's take a look at the pairings.

Gunner x Mattie: Mattie is a hunting pitbull that I selected as a pup a couple of years ago. Her main purpose was to be a brood b!tch to put more grit in my dogs.

Gunner x Dixie: Dixie is my number 2 dog and my number 1 b!tch in the field. Devin made a great cross with her and I want a couple of pups that have the Jagd/Mt Cur/BMC/Catahoula mix to them. They should have the size, grit, and brains I am looking for in foundation stock. I think they'll be top notch for what I do.

Gunner x Lacy: Lacy is a hard b!tch on coyotes. She's 75% Blue Lacy and 25% Mastiff. I'm trying this cross to see if I can get the best traits out of both dogs. This is a backup foundation plan to the Gunner/Dixie crosses.

Gunner x Sadie: Sadie is a nice and petite BMC. Very gritty and has a dang good nose. This cross is to ensure I don't dilute the BMC blood that I have in Gunner.

Now, If pups turn out as I expect them, my plans are GunnerxMattie pups over GunnerxDixie pups to get where I'd like to be with the right mixture of pit/jagd/bmc/mt cur/catahoula. At the same time, I want to take GunnerxLacy pups over GunnerxSadie pups to produce a line that has absolutely no terrier (pit or jagd) in them. From that point, I will make a decision on which way I want to take my foundation stock. If pups don't turn out how I think they should, I'll try something different. Border collie, JRT, Patterdale, and others are being toyed around.

I have simple rules for my dogs here. They must be easy to handle, hunt hard, and kill coyotes. I've culled quite a few this summer that didn't meet all 3 requirements. I don't keep a dog on the place that won't grab and kill a coyote.

Anyhow, I need to get back to work and earn my keep.

Tony
 
Tony,

Well said!!

I wish i could do what you have done and are doing for the sport, i have learned a lot from your previous posts on PM.

PS - I am looking forward to trying my new TT calls next week in Wyoming:)

Have a great night!

DDW
 
I was mistaken in my previous post. As I was driving to town, I remembered that I did have another litter the other day. An accidental breeding of Gunner to a client's dog. She's a dorn bred dog and doing pretty darn well with coyotes. Who knows, this accident may produce the best pups out of Gunner, yet. I'll keep one to test out. If it turns out good, I'll buy the b!tch off of him.

Just wanted to correct my miscount.

Tony
 
Acceptable to whom?How about the dog men who have been
CAREFULLY breeding the BEST dogs they could find to make
a better hunting dog!And the dog men that try to put pups
from first time crosses into the hands of guys that are going to hunt the hide off that dog to see if the cross is even worth a [beeep].The guys that are not in it just to make
a quick buck and don't give a [beeep] about the end product.The dog men who love the sport and are in it to try and make the best dog they can.

When people quit caring about trying to cross the best with
the best you end up with a f***ing show dog!!!!!
 
Originally Posted By: TonyTebbe

I have simple rules for my dogs here. They must be easy to handle, hunt hard, and kill coyotes. I've culled quite a few this summer that didn't meet all 3 requirements. I don't keep a dog on the place that won't grab and kill a coyote.



Tony

handle,hunt hard,and kill coyotes...the 1st two understood, the 3rd? do you mean rag on a wounded coyote that you or a client shot or actually run down and catch a fresh coyote and kill it?
 
i got off subject... back to the orginal question i don't hunt curs,hounds,birddogs ,ect... i hunt terriers on coons and longdogs on coyotes and i'll be the first to tell anyone new to either sport "there is plenty of puppy peddlers out there" do your homework on prospective pups.
hunt your dogs hard and cull harder...
 
I think Tony wants them to track and dispatch a wounded coyote...he isn't into the stag hounds anymore, at least I kind of remember him saying that.

That is what I want out of my dog, to help recover a runner.
 
You are correct. I want a dog to catch and kill a wounded coyote. I'm not into using my dogs like a pack of hounds. Been there, done that with walker running dogs and greyhounds. But I do expect them to tackle, hold, and kill a wounded one. I can't afford to be chasing a wounded coyote halfway across the country with a client. There were plenty of nights where I had clients injure a coyote, we tracked it down, soon as the flashlight hit it's eyes, it would take off again, back to tracking, then happen again. A couple of times, we were a good 2 miles from the hunting rig. No fun trying to find the rig in the dark. I want a dog to flat tackle and kill an injured coyote. If they are afraid to grab hold of a coyote, I won't mess with them and will cull them.

It's kinda like your terriers. I assume you wouldn't want one that wouldn't grab hold of a coon out of the wall of an abandoned house and kill it, right?

Tony
 
Ive been watching this thread unfold. I hesitate to post anything because Im not an official "dog man" but Im exactly like Tony when it comes to wanting a dog that will thrash a coyote. It may be selfish on my part but I want my dog to wear a wounded coyote out. No guts, no glory.
 
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Here's an example of what I'm talking about. It's a video clip I posted last season, that started a pretty good controversy on PM. It shows what I expect of my dogs, by themselves, when things go bad on a shot.



I hope that helps.

Tony
 
tony i remember that vid and dont remember if i commented on it or not. i believe you did the right thing but gunner didn't even come close to killing that coyote, you did.
 
Here's my take on it. If the guy in question is breeding a well known stud dog to every b!tch he can cind regardless of her traits/ hunting abilities, then yeah thats wrong, but if thats the case he is going to start producing lots of culls, and pribably wont sell many dogs.

Now if they are making the right crosses, then i say breed as many as you can feed, house, and keep healthy.

As far as TT goes, make no mistake, this is not mr "coming to his rescue" as so many will do knowing absolutly nothing about his dogs and breeding other than what he tells us. I can say nothing for his breeding, good or bad because i have never hunted over his dogs. I think it is clear that he is trying to make a living off his dogs, but there are lots of guys who do the same.

It makes no difference to me how TT crosses his dogs because i have no intentions of ever owning one of his dogs. He very well be raising and selling a bunch of culls for all i know, and if he is, we will all know soon!
 
From what I've seen/read, coyote dogs are generally a new idea. Ten years ago, I never heard of anyone using dogs on coyotes like they are today. So that being said, it's not surprising that there are some guys out there leading the way and trying to come up with the best line of dogs. Sounds like Tony is working up a line that will probably be doing a super job in a few years, if not sooner.
 
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