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#1974397 - 08/11/11 01:03 AM Re: How Many is acceptable???? [Re: TonyTebbe]
btech29 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 01/17/11
Posts: 1515
Loc: NW Arkansas
Ive been watching this thread unfold. I hesitate to post anything because Im not an official "dog man" but Im exactly like Tony when it comes to wanting a dog that will thrash a coyote. It may be selfish on my part but I want my dog to wear a wounded coyote out. No guts, no glory.


Edited by btech29 (08/11/11 01:03 AM)
_________________________
You can tell a lot about a man by watching him cross a fence.

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#1974402 - 08/11/11 01:18 AM Re: How Many is acceptable???? [Re: btech29]
TonyTebbe Offline
Retired PM Staff.

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 18681
Loc: Lovington, NM
Here's an example of what I'm talking about. It's a video clip I posted last season, that started a pretty good controversy on PM. It shows what I expect of my dogs, by themselves, when things go bad on a shot.



I hope that helps.

Tony
_________________________
Loving my Kids, Loving my Woman, Loving my Dogs, Loving my Job..........Loving my Life!

Tony Tebbe

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#1974428 - 08/11/11 07:04 AM Re: How Many is acceptable???? [Re: TonyTebbe]
emeraldterriers1 Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 697
Loc: kansas
tony i remember that vid and dont remember if i commented on it or not. i believe you did the right thing but gunner didn't even come close to killing that coyote, you did.
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all i can say is WOW

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#1974438 - 08/11/11 07:48 AM Re: How Many is acceptable???? [Re: emeraldterriers1]
Jesse lackey Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 11/28/09
Posts: 1909
Loc: Michigan. Go Blue
Here's my take on it. If the guy in question is breeding a well known stud dog to every b!tch he can cind regardless of her traits/ hunting abilities, then yeah thats wrong, but if thats the case he is going to start producing lots of culls, and pribably wont sell many dogs.

Now if they are making the right crosses, then i say breed as many as you can feed, house, and keep healthy.

As far as TT goes, make no mistake, this is not mr "coming to his rescue" as so many will do knowing absolutly nothing about his dogs and breeding other than what he tells us. I can say nothing for his breeding, good or bad because i have never hunted over his dogs. I think it is clear that he is trying to make a living off his dogs, but there are lots of guys who do the same.

It makes no difference to me how TT crosses his dogs because i have no intentions of ever owning one of his dogs. He very well be raising and selling a bunch of culls for all i know, and if he is, we will all know soon!
_________________________
If our wives were more like our dogs...... There would be a lot more happy men in this world.

"six potato chips all at once? wow, guess he is gonna make a decoy dog!" hahaha just kiddin guys!

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#1974451 - 08/11/11 08:39 AM Re: How Many is acceptable???? [Re: TonyTebbe]
FullCryHounds Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 07/27/03
Posts: 177
Loc: Colorado
From what I've seen/read, coyote dogs are generally a new idea. Ten years ago, I never heard of anyone using dogs on coyotes like they are today. So that being said, it's not surprising that there are some guys out there leading the way and trying to come up with the best line of dogs. Sounds like Tony is working up a line that will probably be doing a super job in a few years, if not sooner.
_________________________
Dean Hendrickson
Pine, CO.


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#1974521 - 08/11/11 10:58 AM Re: How Many is acceptable???? [Re: FullCryHounds]
knockemdown Offline
suburban redneck

Registered: 02/19/03
Posts: 4744
Loc: NY
Fullcryhounds,
If you are interested in seeing some great decoy dog footage from years back, check out these videos:

E.L.K. Inc: "Dogging Coyotes" & "Dogging Coyotes II"
2 Dog Productions: "Coyote Hunting is Going to the Dogs"

The decoy dog work in all of those videos is fantastic! And the handlers/shooters do a fine job of picking & taking which coyote at the most opportune time in the stand.
IMHO, those are the guys to learn from and the dogs I would try to breed for. But, to each, his own...

These videos focus on & showcase the decoy dogs' 'style' on how they keep a coyote's attention and continually 'decoy' them into the killing field on a stand.
That 'style' in a decoy dog is what sets these dogs apart, IMHO & what I appreciate seeing in a decoy dog.
Any ol' mutt can wool a coyote up. Just look at my pup (@ 3mos old) in my avatar, he don't know 'chit & he's doin' it!!! laugh

As for buying/selling pups, ultimately, the BUYER needs to do his homework to make his own mind up about what pup he wants & from where. Even in a proven cross, its going to be a gamble on whether those pups 'turn out' or not. So if a breeder is experimenting & selling those pups, as long as he is UP FRONT about his intentions, then the buyer can make his own decisions.
ON the other hand, if a breeder is peddling culls to fund his own breeding program, well that'd be very unscrupulous...


Edited by knockemdown (08/11/11 11:12 AM)

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#1974530 - 08/11/11 11:13 AM Re: How Many is acceptable???? [Re: yfzduner450]
Dustballs Offline
Die Hard Member

Registered: 03/14/09
Posts: 861
Loc: Wyoming
Originally Posted By: yfzduner450
Originally Posted By: altabonita

Acceptable to whom?


The general public, I guess i should of changed the wording to "How many is ETHICAL?" My main question is, some people get run off for such practices while it is tolerated by others. I'm trying to determine where the line is drawn. Maybe it has nothing to do with the breeding practices but is more about if you like the person or not. I surely don't think someone should be breeding to every b!tch dog they can find. That to me shows it's more about the money then the quality of dog. That's why it is so hard to find quality bred dogs these days, and i'm not talking just hunting dogs.


I know nothing and even less about breeding dogs. Maybe you can fill us in on how you would go about finding the right pair to breed getting what you want out of the pups that are thrown. Tell us please how you do it in your breeding program.

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#1974558 - 08/11/11 12:05 PM Re: How Many is acceptable???? [Re: emeraldterriers1]
TonyTebbe Offline
Retired PM Staff.

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 18681
Loc: Lovington, NM
Originally Posted By: emeraldterriers1
tony i remember that vid and dont remember if i commented on it or not. i believe you did the right thing but gunner didn't even come close to killing that coyote, you did.


True, on that clip. It's the best example I had for what I want a dog to do, by himself, on cripples. If I let him go long enough on it, Gunner would have killed that coyote. Seen it too many times. I had a client and the coyote's misery went on long enough. That's why I stepped in and put it down. But, I hope the clip helped with what I mean on expecting a dog to catch and try his dangest to kill a coyote. I don't need or want any bay barkers on cripples. I was lucky enough to have a camera man that night. For every stand I get on film, are a 100 stands that I don't carry a camera. My focus, when guiding, is guiding.


Thanks...

Tony
_________________________
Loving my Kids, Loving my Woman, Loving my Dogs, Loving my Job..........Loving my Life!

Tony Tebbe

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#1974590 - 08/11/11 01:10 PM Re: How Many is acceptable???? [Re: TonyTebbe]
TonyTebbe Offline
Retired PM Staff.

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 18681
Loc: Lovington, NM
Quote:
The general public, I guess i should of changed the wording to "How many is ETHICAL?" My main question is, some people get run off for such practices while it is tolerated by others. I'm trying to determine where the line is drawn. Maybe it has nothing to do with the breeding practices but is more about if you like the person or not.


Jeremy, I hoped I answered your questions on breeding. The particulars of your above quote have me confused, though. Of all the years that I've been here, I don't remember anyone getting "run off" for producing pups in their breeding program. I've heard rumors of a member leaving in the past, after being belittled due to the competition they apparently posed. But then again, that's just a rumor. I also don't remember any tolerances given by popularity or favoritism, based on whom one likes or like by. I do, however, remember the particulars in the following quote, posted in the forum rules....

Quote:
After an "issue", some phone calls and e-mails.It has been decided that "NO PRICE CHALLENGE" WILL BE ALLOWED IN THIS FORUM. If you don't like the price, don't buy the dog, but slandering any dogman/or dog, will not be tolerated. Any post to that effect will be deleted as soon as I SEE IT!!!
Any ?'s may be sent to me by "PM".
Guys bear with me, I'm just a cowboy with a few dogs, doing the best I can. When there is an issue I try to get it strait.
Thanks for the calls,pm's and emails, this is your site, not mine.I'm just here to "Try and make things work". Duane.


Believe me, I don't want this thread pulled. I look back at it as an example that I must be doing something right.

Ok, I'm done with this topic. I've got a started dog that's getting picked up this weekend, that took on a nasty tear under his armpit from a coyote, last night. Gotta go do some doctoring.

Tony
_________________________
Loving my Kids, Loving my Woman, Loving my Dogs, Loving my Job..........Loving my Life!

Tony Tebbe

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#1974635 - 08/11/11 02:48 PM Re: How Many is acceptable???? [Re: TonyTebbe]
yfzduner450 Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 1584
Loc: West Jordan, Utah
but slandering any dogman/or dog, will not be tolerated. Any post to that effect will be deleted as soon as I SEE IT!!!

I'm not quite sure what this has to do with this thread, as far as i'm concerned I haven't pointed any fingers. The last thread about "Dogs in heat" made me think of the question, thats all. It wasn't directed at you or anyone else. I just wanted to hear everyone's opinion on the subject. You were the one that "made" it about you, as if the "shoe fits" or something. I agree and disagree with alot that is being said but I feel different opinions can help people learn and grow. I think alot of the guys have alot in common with we just want the BEST dogs we can have. On that note, i also believe guys should represent their pups HONESTLY, and inform the buyer if it's a proven cross or not and I would probably stay far away from breeders with an over 50% puppy death rate, not to be confused with CULL rate.
_________________________
"Who's smarter, a man that lives life, or one that lives scared?" By Duane@ssu

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#1974658 - 08/11/11 03:38 PM Re: How Many is acceptable???? [Re: yfzduner450]
TonyTebbe Offline
Retired PM Staff.

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 18681
Loc: Lovington, NM
Don't toy with me young man. Your post was clearly directed at me. Anyone and everyone can see it. The post almost mimics the PM you sent me a couple months ago, wondering what in the heck I was thinking on having 3 litters at the same time. I'm too old to play around with highschool drama. I call it like I see it.


Quote:
On that note, i also believe guys should represent their pups HONESTLY, and inform the buyer if it's a proven cross or not


I agree. I'm sure you've been to my website, you'll see that both litters that I have available are clearly marked as "This is a first time breeding of..." Just because a guy makes the same cross with the same male to the same female, every year, doesn't necessarily make it the best cross. If a breeder doesn't think he can produce a better dog than what's available, then why even be a breeder? Do I feel that I can produce a better dog? You betcha.

As far as a 50% puppy death rate, don't be so quick to judge until you've successfully raised litters of pups in consistent 100-110 degree weather. I won't be judged by some greenhorn, groupy, computer whiz, while I'm busy hydrating and bottle feeding pups. I learned my lesson on it. I took every puppy loss very personal and won't be doing any spring breedings in the future.

We can keep this up all day if you want. It's hot outside and I've gotten nothing better to do than expose you. Well, I do have to go sign my son up for highschool. Heck, maybe you know him. smile

Tony
_________________________
Loving my Kids, Loving my Woman, Loving my Dogs, Loving my Job..........Loving my Life!

Tony Tebbe

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#1974718 - 08/11/11 05:12 PM Re: How Many is acceptable???? [Re: TonyTebbe]
utahnate Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 306
Loc: Monroe, Utah
Watching people get into forum fights is funny, keep egging it on, come on..ha...ha..
Hunters can do what they want, if Tony wants to make money off of his good stud dog and hunting popularity right on, thats the American dream. Would I personally rather get a pup from someone who only breeds his dogs to renew his own pack, yes.
When i read that the dorn dog had 15 pups was my first thought puppy mill, yes.
_________________________
"keep your nose to the wind and your eyes to the horizon"

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#1974728 - 08/11/11 05:36 PM Re: How Many is acceptable???? [Re: utahnate]
TonyTebbe Offline
Retired PM Staff.

Registered: 10/31/03
Posts: 18681
Loc: Lovington, NM
I think this forum fight has come to an end. Jeremy PMd me and we chatted, shared a few laughs, etc... It's all good.

Tony
_________________________
Loving my Kids, Loving my Woman, Loving my Dogs, Loving my Job..........Loving my Life!

Tony Tebbe

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#1974730 - 08/11/11 05:38 PM Re: How Many is acceptable???? [Re: TonyTebbe]
utahnate Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 10/22/07
Posts: 306
Loc: Monroe, Utah
Thats good to here.
Nate
_________________________
"keep your nose to the wind and your eyes to the horizon"

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#1974731 - 08/11/11 05:38 PM Re: How Many is acceptable???? [Re: utahnate]
jbmaster Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 09/30/06
Posts: 400
Loc: Bradford, Pa.
To the fellow that wanted to know how to breed and get exactly what you want.That is never going to happen consistently.You take a bloodline that excels at some things, and cross with a bloodline that excels at something else that will compliment what you have.Then you hope and pray that it happens.But if you know the dogs that you breed, you at least know you have a very good chance at getting a good dog.Gramp always said," He has the breeding,now it's up to me to make him the dog that I want."

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