Colorado Wildlife Commission to consider legalizing e-calls for lions in CO

cornstalker

Active member
On July 21,2011 I was officially notified by the Reg's Coordinator that the petition to legalize electronic calls for mountain lion hunting will be heard by the Commission on Sept 15, 2011. The meeting will be in Colorado Springs, CO.


The petition is as follows:

Quote:CITIZEN-PROPOSED ISSUE PAPER
Date: 01/13/2011
ISSUE: Currently, the mountain lion is classified as a big game animal, and according to regulations WCR #004.A.3.a (and b), the use of an electronic call to harvest one is prohibited. We believe this provision to be unnecessarily restrictive, and see benefit in allowing the use of electronic calls for hunting them.

ARTICLE IV - MANNER OF TAKING WILDLIFE
#004 -
A. Aids Used in Taking Big Game, Small Game and Furbearers - Except as expressly authorized by these regulations, the use of baits and other aids in taking big game, small game and furbearers is prohibited.
3. Other Aids
a. Mechanical calls may be used to take all species of wildlife during established seasons.
b. Except as otherwise provided in these regulations, electronic calls may be used as an aid in taking furbearers only.



DISCUSSION (FACTS AND FIGURES, EXPLANATION OF ISSUE):
It is well known that mountain lions are very secretive and elusive animals. In regards to hunting them, it is widely accepted that there is almost no chance to harvest one without the use of dogs. Even the studies conducted by State and Federal wildlife agencies employ hounds men as the primary method of locating, capturing and collaring cats for their research. Outside of sheer luck, it appears that the only other method that has some limited chance of success is calling. Although calling does not improve the hunters odds to anywhere near those of hound hunters, it may be the only other way to draw a cat out of cover long enough to harvest it.

Calling is not without risk however. A mountain lion will not likely attack a human under normal circumstances, but when the human is well concealed and making the same sounds that an easy meal or a rival cat makes, all bets are off. And when the hunter is using a hand-held mouth call, he or she is inviting the cat right into their lap. This puts the hunter in an almost indefensible and hazardous situation, even more so when the lion stalks in from behind.

From a safety standpoint, the use of an electronic call makes a lot of sense for lion hunting without a pack of hunting dogs. It diverts the focus of the large predator a specific distance away from the hunter, instead of having the lion zero directly in on the person. Yet due to the extremely low call-in ratio documented by highly experienced lion callers, this device does not provide the hunter with an unfair advantage.

Pursuant to this crucial safety issue, we would ask you to consider revising the regulations to allow the use of electronic calls for hunting mountain lions.

The use of electronic calls would also allow the hunter more time to observe the animal before deciding whether to harvest it. This would certainly improve the opportunity to evaluate maturity and/or sex of the animal over the use of a hand call, where the lion’s focus is directed on the hunter. This ability to observe undetected for a few moments will allow the opportunity to pass up a female lion if the hunter desires.


WHO MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN THIS ISSUE? HAVE YOU COMMUNICATED WITH ANY OTHER INTERESTED PARTIES? WHAT INPUT HAVE YOU RECEIVED?
A large number of hunters, both resident and non-resident have shown interest in this notion. They will share input and support for it at the Commission meeting. Conversations with trappers and lion guides did not produce any strong objection, or feelings of encroachment into an "exclusive" domain.

ALTERNATIVES: PLEASE INDICATE THE PROBABLE OUTCOME IF THIS PETITION IS ACCEPTED, AS WELL AS THE IMPACT OF ALTERNATIVES TO THIS PETITION:
Probable outcome if accepted:
Initially there is the possibility of a small increase in lion harvests simply due to the increase in the amount of hunters willing to try hunting them. Based on input from highly experienced lion callers who use electronic calls in Arizona and Washington, it is not likely to see a significant or lasting increase in hunter success. In fact, incidental lion sightings reported by hunters legally using electronic calls for other predators are infrequent to rare. The current unit quota system is adequate to prevent exceeding harvest objectives.

There would almost certainly be an increase in revenue due to increased license sales, both resident and non-resident.

Electronic calls would offer a somewhat effective management tool for areas where running dogs is not practical due to development, if targeted culling were needed.

Impact of alternative to this proposal:
The popularity of predator calling is increasing exponentially nationwide and the Cougar has become the ultimate trophy for those dedicated to the sport of predator calling. As such, it's something that can become a passion for the predator caller. The restriction of "mechanical calls only" heightens the potential for an attack on a human.

Thank you for your consideration of this issue, as it makes lion calling safer.



PETITION PROPOSED BY: A collective of sportsmen
PETITION WRITTEN BY: xxxxxxxxx with the help of many of the sportsmen mentioned above.
DATE SENT TO THE COMMISSION: 7/21/2011




We now have a chance to rally behind this and see what we can get done. I don't give it much of a chance unless we can get a bunch of guys behind it to share ideas and let the Commission know that we are serious.

I apologize that it has taken this long to get to this point, but now is our chance.

 
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This is great news for us Colorado boys!!
Do you know, will it apply to out of staters too?
I'm all for calling in a mountain lion, just not with a hand call....that is in MY HAND!!!
scared.gif

Sounds like you have done a lot of hard work on this CS. Thank you!
 
Quote:Do you know, will it apply to out of staters too?

Being a "Legal method of take" issue it should apply to any license holder, resident or non.

Quote:Sounds like you have done a lot of hard work on this CS. Thank you!

I have sure had a lot of help along the way. Couldn't even begin to take the credit for the hard work, it has been a joint effort.

The hardest part is yet to come.

Thanks for the kind words just the same, Mark.
 
Originally Posted By: sharkathmiThis is great news for us Colorado boys!!
Do you know, will it apply to out of staters too?
I'm all for calling in a mountain lion, just not with a hand call....that is in MY HAND!!!
scared.gif

Sounds like you have done a lot of hard work on this CS. Thank you!

Chad is doing a great job!!!! He does need all of our help. The 15 of Sept is not far away and we need to get a show of suport to the DOW and the Commission. Kind of like WE all did when we went against the Wild Earth Guardings for the Pdog thing. You can bet the W.E.G.'s will try and stop this. So, if anyone has some ideals, thoughts or away to help lets hear it.

We need to get the word out that Colorado hunters want to have e-callers for mountain lions to the DOW and Commission and hopefully some will be able to make the meeting to help. One thing we (the few of us that made the Pdog thing meeting) found out how much the DOW likes to see the hunters show up for the meeting instead of just the an't hunters, it means a lot to them....
 
Thanks Nick and Lyle.

Race is right. It would not be wise to expect a slam-dunk. I was out of the country when the pdog thing finally went down, but it was good to hear about all of the DOW folks thanking the hunters for showing up.

I have set up an email address as a communication hub. All who wish to stay in the loop on what's happening, or just want to offer suggestions/advice, please email:

co.lion@hotmail.com

Also tell me your user name on the boards and what forum it is from, please.

NO ATTACHMENTS PLEASE!!
 
Bill Meyer from Ordway has offered to be our presenter.

The online petition is slow developing at this point. I'll update when I know more.

For those who can't make the meeting, I would invite you to write letters stating your support and any additional reasons you want to add as to why they should allow the rule change.

Please email them to co.lion@hotmail.com

We will present them to the commission at the meeting.
 
CS thanks for your work on this, wish we had more like you willing to go the extra mile and put in the sweat.

I know there is a ton of guys just on here from colorado springs.

Get-r-done
 
Okay boys (and girls), the time and place are set. I still think attendance is a key factor to success...

September 15,2011

Slated for 11:05 AM

Doubletree Hotel
1775 East Cheyenne Mountain Blvd
Colorado Springs, CO 80906

I suppose we'll let the online petition run through the end of the week. I really need some letters from individuals to submit.

Let's get this thing done.

I'd sure rather ask for what we want than fight to stop it from being taken away. Please help however you can...
 
Well guys, the time is at hand.

The online petition will close for new signatures 9 PM Central time on Tuesday, September 13, 2011.

We will accept letters up to the evening of September 14,2011 at:

co.lion@hotmail.com

The meeting will take place on September 15,2011 in Colorado Springs. Our presentation is scheduled for 11:05 AM, but Brett Ackerman, (the Regs Coordinator who has been so helpful), said to allow an hour variance either way in case the meeting is ahead of or behind schedule. He also mentioned that folks can come and go as they please so they are not stuck there all day for a 20 minute segment.

Side note:
The Commission will be making a final decision regarding the adoption of a proposed modification to current unit quota limits. In all it appears the proposal would increase the limit from 592 to 618 lions statewide.

It would be great if I could get a feel for who is going to be there. Please email me at the address above to let me know if you are coming. We can plan a time to meet.

Here is a link to the web page with all of the info on the meeting. It includes the address, agenda, and links to supporting documents for topics of discussion.

http://wildlife.state.co.us/ParksWildlifeCommission/Archives/2011/Pages/Sept152011.aspx

I guess it’s time to put up or shut up. Please pitch in however you can if you want to see this passed.
Thanks for the help.

 
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Well, we made it out of the first round. It was close though...

The commissioners were split right down the middle, the chairman broke the tie in our favor.

I'll find out next week what we need to do to prepare for round two.

This was an eye opener, and I feel like we just squeaked by this round. We will have to hit it with renewed vigor to take the next round.

Thanks for all of the letters and support on the petition to all who pitched in....
 
Chapter 2 - Big Game - Citizen Petition
The Commission heard a citizen petition for rule making requesting the Commission revise regulations allowing electronic calls as an aid in taking mountain lions. The Commission forwarded the petition for further consideration and directed staff to look into the definition of fair chase and the potential impacts to lion management.

FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.

I looked for the CDOW definition of fair chase but could not find it on the web (did not look that hard because I found the above)

So. The way "I" see it this should pass with out any dissenting vote. We already allow the use of up to 8 dogs to chase and tree lions (Calling would bring in less lions then dogs tree). We have a quota system for the number taken (So the number taken may increase but not above the number allowed).

What was the dissenting voters reason for the nah vote? I was not able to make the last meeting but did sign the partition. Do you know when the next time this will be on the docket for review.
 
November 10,11 in Burlington as far as I know. Will update as I learn more.

B&C specifically and categorically excludes the use of an electronic call for harvesting a big game animal that is to be recorded in the books. So does P&Y. The same clubs are cool with hounds and baiting where legal.

Obviously, fair chase is subjective. The electronic call does not provide an unfair advantage, or even close. To my surprise, there are statistics that show that female lions are indeed more likely to be harvested by calling than adult males. I will be feverishly researching this.

The slippery slope here is that we need to be careful not to step on the neck of other hunters and their methods to further the cause, rather we agree with them or not.

Frankly, I wish a few who showed up at the meeting would have paid the same respect, but it wasn't so.
 
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