Should I invest into a lead sled before going further?

the noobie

the noobie

New member
Not sure whats been wrong lately but my shooting has SUCKED I cant get a group worth looking at, i get patterns more than groups. Before i start working on reloading should i get a lead sled and make sure that the gun is perfectly zeroed? and then if i do get a lead sled could it be used for testing loads? like shooting 5 shot groups?

I really dont want to spend $100 on a stupid rest that I use every full moon (i wanted a new bi-pod first) but i dont want to start throwing expensive reloading components down range when i cant group.

Ive tried shooting off of sandbags ive tried off a bipod with a bag under butt stock and i tried my old method of just shooting off of a car hood.
 
Noobie, I used to have the same question/concern until I won a Lead Sled at a competition and tried it out...

I know they were originally intended to help tame the high caliber/high recoil rifles, but when used in load development, it sure allows you to remove a lot of the 'human error' factor and keep your testing more consistent..

It's true that I don't use mine as much as I used to, since I have developed various loads for most of my rifles, but every time I change scopes, it's really nice to set up on the back deck, stick a bore sight in the rifle and use the lead sled to stabilize the rifle while getting the scope on paper first, without running to the range...I just have to be careful not to scare the dickens out of my neighbors..

I recently acquired a nice .308 and need to work up some loads for it now...it will come in really handy, again...I also have a series of longer range loads worked up for my .223 Rem 700 that I'm waiting for this current 'heat wave' to pass, so I can go try them out at 300 yards..
 
Get the bi-pod first, and spend your money on ammo and practice.

Get out your 22LR and work on the fun-de-mentals
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My .22 is a 10/22 with vintage trigger from the 70's... its not the greatest to say the least. It works for squirrels but thats about it.

For the .223 would i need weight in a lead sled? I really dont want to buy one but maybe I just as well and get the bipod later on. That being said we have one of these gun cleaning stations.


Similar to this one

I sure wouldnt just pull the trigger i would still get in behind the gun but since hte .223 doesnt have major recoil would it work? Its not the best but it would remove a lot more of me from the shooting. and just to addjust for elevation all i would need to do is shim the front or back depending on what is needed.
 
Quote:Before i start working on reloading should i get a lead sled and make sure that the gun is perfectly zeroed..Ninehorses, I was basing my answer on this part of his question...It's hard to work up loads for a .22...

Anytime you are trying to evaluate most things, the more you can remove the human error factor, the better...Is it something you just "Have to have", no...almost any cleaning cradle will help to a degree...even if it is a homemade one, as long as it will hold the firearm in the same repeatable position for each shot...

Noobie, The Gun Butler will work for zeroing a rifle,, the only down side is that it doesn't offer the capability of elevation to bring the barrel in line with the target, but that can be remedied with a couple of boards or books, as an interim solution..
 
It could be your technique is not consistant.. A solid rest is very important. IMO very few shooters are as accurate as they can be using only a bi-pod. Some kind of adjustable front rest is needed and at least one bag in the rear.. A solid bench is a must as well. Here's a link to a great article that deals with vertical stringing, but the techniques apply to all shooting for accuracy off a bench..

Click this
 
I too had the vary same question just a few years back. I could not seem to find a load that would group out of my 223 like I wanted.

Frustrated I called my brother in law who is quite a good shooter and explained what was going on.

He suggested I come get His lead sled and it wasn't My loads or my gun it was me and he was right.

As OT stated it takes out a lot of the human error factor. If you can swing it,its money well spent.
 
I love my sled for sighting in and testing new loads. It works very well. Also I know where the gun is hitting so when I shoot I can't blame it on the gun.
 
I bought one for it's original purpose, to help tame the recoil of my TC black powder rifle. It works well for that, and I have found that it helps with load development for my other rifles. I use it for my .223's, 22-250, and 30-06. Before I started using it, I had the same problem you are describing. I have the cheaper one, the Lead Sled Solo, which I think I picked up on sale for around $65. It will take a 25 pound shot bag, so I wouldn't shoot some giant bore African game gun off it, but it works well for my guns. As Old Turtle said, the more human factor you can remove, the more you will see just what the rifle and load are doing.
 
Just a thought, and I don't think anyone mentioned this above, but try another scope and mounts, and check every screw on the gun for tightness. We've all had it happen! Might NOT be you or the rest or the gun or the loads.......
 
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Noobie- I contemplated this same thing quite a bit until I went to a training for work, saw other guys using them while my partner and I used bags.We sure weren't embarassed at all using what we had. I think that they are a great tool for taming recoil, removing the human element as much as possible, and creating shot to shot to consistency. That being said, in MY situation, bags are a much better fit for me. They are much more mobile, versatile,cheaper and just plain handier. I don't shoot anything bigger than a .243, except on occasion my 30-06, so the recoil situation is not much of an issue for me. If you tinker around some with different sizes and models (socks and old jeans legs full of grain, sand, or bean bag filler, work too) you can figure out a platform that will let you shoot with minimal touching of the rifle for shot to shot consistency.On the other hand, a young guy like you buying a sled now will get much more use out of if in your lifetime than some of us likely will in the remainder of our lives. Not one tool or piece of equipment will improve your shooting more than plain old practice. Just some food for thought, and good luck with your choice. ObarO
 
You could always build a gun cradle if you have the time and metal laying around, pretty simple to do.
All my bench shooting is with bipod since anything strapped in a sled is not going to be the same when you are out actually shooting it.
Cradles are nice for shooting targets though and not moving.
 
Well i took our little cleaning station out and used it today. It removed 75% of me from the equation, all i had to do was slightly touch the butt stock to get the crosshairs perfectly lined up. I shot a 5 shot group and a 4 shot (the 4 was supposed to be a 5 but after seeing the 4th shot hit no where near where i wanted i just got angry and left.


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I didnt put my shoulder up to the rifle with pressure i just barely set it up against the butt stock. Could this have caused the bad groups? Only one shot out of all of those that I will vouch for as being my fault and that is the farthest left hit on the 5 shot group. (top pic) Oh and yes the 4 shot group is upside down. I always sight my guns in to shoot high at 100 and so i just flipped my target over and shot more. One group above the bullseye and one below. Saves on those expensive targets.
 
I get where you guys are coming from as far as a lead sled isnt going to help my shooting but what im trying to do is figure out if its me thats doing bad or if its the gun/scope. And then the lead sled I thought would be a good little tool for testing loads.

I saw those Red MCM ones and might have to pick one up
 
The big thing in testing loads is not the cradle itself, but the fact that all pressures on the weapon remain consistent..

I think you might have been better off to shoot the weapon using the "free recoil" approach...

Set the weapon in the cleaning cradle, line up your sight picture the same for each shot, and only trip the trigger by using your thumb against rear of the trigger guard and your index finger on the trigger, so that you are actually 'pinching' them together..You just have to be aware of the end result of the recoil action, so the rifle doesn't jump out of the cradle..That's the only reason that I place a strap around the butt of the rifle in the pic below...it's really not putting any substantial downward pressure on the rifle before recoil..

GroupTestingSetup.jpg


This allows each shot to produce the same amount of recoil....By putting your shoulder against the butt of the weapon, you can influence the recoil a little differently each time, just as some shooters influence it by pulling the trigger a little sideways, unknowingly..
 
Thats exactly how i was setting the trigger off but i had to give it a little bit of pressure or else i couldnt get on target and stay on target. Tomorow Im going to go get a lead sled, pending i can find a ride. Do i need weight in it just for a .223? I have 15 pounds worth of weights like you would use for weight lifting if they would work.

Would the one that Slugger listed above work pretty good? its not much cheaper than the entry level lead sled but every penny i can save without loosing a ton of quality will make me happier.

Slugger, do you weight yours when using it?
 
I've never found the need to weight mine down, but I do strap it to the bench, just to keep from having to re-position it each time.. The Lead Sled is reasonably heavy compared to the plastic ones, but the plastic ones will be easier to move back to the original position..especially if you put a couple of marks on the bench with a magic marker..
 
My point was, that you won't learn to shoot small groups sitting behind your rifle, with it bolted into a rest. Maybe you plan to hunt with it that way? What good are small groups if you can only do it with a lead-sled.

 
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