HELP!-Need muzzleloader tips

Kizmo

New member
I know absolutely nothing about muzzleloaders other than, well...you load them from the muzzle. I've gotten in on a deer (& predator) lease in Oklahoma with lots of long shot potential, so I am looking to buy a muzzleloader and accessories this summer.

Please tell me what I need. I am all about accuracy and practicality, not history or nostalgia. Please help!!!
And I'm talkin' about the equivalent of "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Muzzleloading"...
 
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I don't like the Knight actions. There is a lot of wasted length there and they won't handle Blackhorn209 with their breech plugs. I would choose TC or CVA for a closed break action that would be more weather proof and surefire ignition with BH209.

On the cheap, a CVA Wolf is a real deal. The TC Impact or Omega Z5 are good deals. Higher up are the CVA Accuras and the TC TRiumph. Above that would be the CVA Apex and the TC Encore.

I shoot BH209 and Hornady XTP pistol bullets from my Omega Z5. Great accuracy and good economy.

Proper cleaning and consistent loading are the keys to successful muzzleloading. Some powders like Pyrodex and Triple 7 require bore cleaning after a few shots or it gets very difficult to load the next bullet. BH209 will go for a full session w/o cleaning, but like the others must be cleaned soon or serious rust will develop. Most muzzleloaders die from neglect rather than being worn out.
 
I see Knight is back on the scene after closing their doors for a short time. I myself am a T/C man, Omega to be specific. 218 yards is the farthest kill I have with it using the 200gr. Shock wave bullet and 150 gr. of Triple 7 pellets behind it.
 
Thanks for all the info fellas. How about a scope? Do I need one of those advertised as a "muzzleloader scope"?
 
Originally Posted By: KizmoThanks for all the info fellas. How about a scope? Do I need one of those advertised as a "muzzleloader scope"?

Nope. Even the muzzleloading scopes are designed for one particular load. Anything else will be off the hash marks or circles. A good centerfire scope with ample eye relief will work fine. I prefer a 2-7 or a 3-9 with a simple duplex reticle. I sight in either dead on at 100 yds. or 150 yds. and learn the trajectory out to 200 yds.
 
Originally Posted By: lhitchcoxOriginally Posted By: KizmoThanks for all the info fellas. How about a scope? Do I need one of those advertised as a "muzzleloader scope"?

Nope. Even the muzzleloading scopes are designed for one particular load. Anything else will be off the hash marks or circles. A good centerfire scope with ample eye relief will work fine. I prefer a 2-7 or a 3-9 with a simple duplex reticle. I sight in either dead on at 100 yds. or 150 yds. and learn the trajectory out to 200 yds.

Thank you. I have a 30 year old Leupold VariX II 3x9 that is currently "between guns". As far as guns, the T/C Encore Pro Hunter 209 x 50 looks interesting at the moment.
 
If you are new to MZ shooting then the KISS system is the only way to go. Don't fall for all the new gimmicks and such. Just do your homework and keep it simple.

Personally to keep costs down I would look for a good used Knight MK-85. That is one of the better shooting MZ's that has ever been made. Very lightweight. Absolutely the best trigger available on any non-custom MZ. And they will simply shoot about anything you want to put down the barrel.

You will get alot of recomendations. But these Knight rifles really do shoot, and are great.

Don't fall for the fast cleaning gimmick. I have several Knight rifles as well as the TC Encore and other MZ's. There is not 5 minutes worth of difference in cleaning any of them. Yes a hand twist breech plug will save you two or three minutes. If your time is that important then go with those finicky rifles and be done with it. But it is not worth it to me.

Keep your powder and bullets simple. Go with straight loose black powder. No need to spend a ton of money on all the new fangled powders. Yes they are nice, but not worth the price. And all the new powders, including BH-209 are finicky. You don't need that. You are new to MZ shooting.

So pick up some simple loose black powder. And pick up some simple sabots or even better yet shoot a simple conical. There are tons of both out there. Play around a bit with them. But you will find your Knight will shoot any of them well.

Keep it simple and you will not have any problem. If you go with all the new stuff to pick up 100 or so fps then be prepared for head aches. It is not worth it.

As far as a scope is concerned. Again keep it simple. A simple straight 4X or 6X scope would be perfect. You can get a drop compensating scope for an MZ if you want. But you can sight a 50 caliber dead on at 125 yards, and shot out to about 150 or so from the same setting. And that is actualy farther than most can shoot an MZ. Look at a used Leupold 4X or 6X. Maybe a 3X9 if you want to spend the extra. But a 3x9 is really more power than you need.

IMO the MZ scopes are a real gimmick. Extra money for nothing. And IMO stay away from the Nikon BDC's. That reticle is a cluster as far as I am concerned. Tom.
 
The Encore is a great rifle and has the added feature of changable barrels. A great inexpensive alternative is the Omega. The Z-7 is the bottom of the line, but will do anything you want in a smoke pole. The more frills, the higher the price. The Z-7 and a Nikon 3X9 will stack deer up as fast as you can shoot and reload. Usually Wally World has a Z-7 package deal for around $300.00.
Where's your Okla. lease?? Kinda a long ways from Georgia!
 
HOGGHEAD-
As long as I'm at or under $1000, cost isn't that big a deal to me. However, simple and easy is. I don't bow or muzzleloader hunt in Georgia because it's too much trouble for too little reward. I could care less about having extra weekends swatting mosquitos for an early chance at a 130 class. However, in OK where I'm hunting, a 130 class doesn't get more than one look, so I'm going to suck it up and start MZ hunting.

Now, that 2-3 minutes for a hand twist breech plug isn't much time. However, I know the limitations of my sorry, lazy butt. If something's not ridiculously easy and I can convince myself it isn't urgent, I will procrastinate, and then my senile mind will forget. With that in mind, I figured that removing any (mental) roadblock to prompt cleaning would be a plus. HOWEVER, I don't want anything "finicky". So, would you please explain what you mean about "finicky rifles".
 
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psycodog-I'm outside of Waynoka, OK. Yep, it's a long way from Ga, but the deer hunting in my neck of the woods sucks. I got a 153 last season, and that's about as good as I'm going to do down here. Plus, our population isn't that great. I saw more deer in OK in a couple of days than I would see in Ga in several seasons.
 
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Cleaning is most important with black powder.Substitutes are not as bad but you must still clean.It don't mater much what method just so you get it clean.If you are not going to clean soon and well just get the cheapest gun you can get and throw it away when season is over.Black powder and sweat will make some good rust over night.
 
Kizmo- With the budget you mentioned, I would go for a Savage ML. They shoot smokeless powder and most of the time are as accurate as a centerfire. They run in the $600. range for a nice one and you have far less maintainance. Just an alternative thought.
 
Originally Posted By: lhitchcoxOops, double post.
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Sorry i've been wanting to use this for along time.
 
Originally Posted By: lhitchcoxI don't like the Knight actions. There is a lot of wasted length there and they won't handle Blackhorn209 with their breech plugs. I would choose TC or CVA for a closed break action that would be more weather proof and surefire ignition with BH209.

On the cheap, a CVA Wolf is a real deal. The TC Impact or Omega Z5 are good deals. Higher up are the CVA Accuras and the TC TRiumph. Above that would be the CVA Apex and the TC Encore.

I shoot BH209 and Hornady XTP pistol bullets from my Omega Z5. Great accuracy and good economy.

Proper cleaning and consistent loading are the keys to successful muzzleloading. Some powders like Pyrodex and Triple 7 require bore cleaning after a few shots or it gets very difficult to load the next bullet. BH209 will go for a full session w/o cleaning, but like the others must be cleaned soon or serious rust will develop. Most muzzleloaders die from neglect rather than being worn out.

There is NO bigger POS made in the ML world than CVA. NONE. "Junk" doesn't even begin to describe CVA.

IMO, for under a grand:

1) Knight (best barrel, easy to clean, outshoots the others, fool proof action)

2) Savage (highest velocities, smokeless powder, kinda heavy for my liking)

3) T/C (nothing special IMO, but not junk)

 
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