Dog on Dog Agression?

DoubleCK

New member
Thanks for all the private and public discussions here. All the experience in the L,B&H forum has been a ton of help.

Several have helped me to get my mind around the Dog on Dog Aggression training issue. I am working on it.

My questions for discussion:

Is dog on dog aggression ever acceptable?
-At the feed trough?
-Fighting back?
-Establishing pecking order?
-Defending property?
-Defending dead game?
-Defending family?
-When?
-Never?

When unacceptable, how is it best curbed?
-Boots?
-Scold?
-Shock?
-Tone?
-Other?

Not necessarily looking for a "one and only right answer." Looking for ideas I can stir around and figure out what will work for us here.
 
"hunting terriers"
thats a good question for debate... here the answer is no. there is no tolorance for fighting!
fighting back... at me? i'll give them a dirt nap
pecking order... i'm the boss
defending property...never seen it happen
defending dead game... we call it crabbing, no it's mine, i'm still the boss
defending family....i'm sure it happens,mine don't

with this being said i'm only pertaining to terriers. i have yet to see a breed of hunting dog with the drive,grit, want,as a well bred terrier.if i have a terrier that is dog aggeresive i start over... or hunt it alone. these guys get into places you can't readily get to, bottom of a dozer pile,20 ft deep in a hay barn,ect... if you have a fight there with two strong willed dogs it would be a train wreck in a hurry, more than likely you would find one dead and one ruined.these guys are a blast to hunt with but can be a handfull also.
 
Acceptable? Depends on what you want/[or allow] in YOUR dog.

Below is a pic of our 85 lb "Family dog" from yrs ago. Male dog, very strong willed, faithfull, protective & dominant[among other things].

Well, all was going well. Until one day he tried to take me. Dog was near 1.5 yrs old, the prime of his life. I scolded him for not minding. Then I went to take him by the collar to chain him outside. Dog, stiffened up, hair bristeled, low deep growl as I took him by the collar.

He instantly shown his teeth & lunged for my throat, jaws wide open. I wheeled back & slugged him as hard as I could on the jaw[upper cut]. Which lifted him up on his hind legs & spun him 180.

When he landed on all fours he was ready for an all out battle. We did a stare off for 10 minutes or so. Beings I didn't have a weapon I figured best to finish this dominance issue, when I had the upper hand.

A wk later, dog was lying on the floor on his side. Near my Wife's recliner. I saw my chance & slowly I slid onto the floor. Edging my way near him from up behind him. I softly spoke to him, as I softly pet his back. Dog was high pitched growling[he wasn't buying it].

Once I was right next to him. I quickly grabbed his muzzle & throat, slilding my body on top of his. I had him pinned solid onto the floor. My head was by his as I stared into his eye. I bit his R-ear solid as I looked him in the eye[w/o blinking].

I held him down for maybe 15 minutes after biting him once. After that day, he never shown any agression to me. When our paths would cross, I'd stare him in the eyes without blinking. Dog, always looked down & away. Et moved off to the side of where I was wakling to.

Crude? treatment I suppose, but it worked for me. BTW, I tried a shock collar previously = No worky

d72cd0a8.jpg
 
CK, great question, I know you will get a wide variety. Or opinions here.

Pretty simple for me. I don't mind a dog with aggression. Aggression is instinctive to a hunting dog. When my dogs are running a coyote they better be running with the intention of killing it. So, its kind of natural for them to be a littLe short fused. When you have several dogs with a short fuse together, eventually one of them is going to blow. By no means does this mean that I want a bunch of dogs who fight all the time, but each hound has their thing.

I have one female who will fight to the death over a bowl of food. So she eats alone. I have two that are great together everywhere but the box in the truck, so they don't ride together.

BUT, I will never tolerate any dog-dog aggression while on a track, or over dead game.

As for correcting aggression, the answer is different for each dog. Usually its "boots" but not always.

This is what works for me, I know allot of guys will disagree with me, but that's what this whole deal is all about!
 
Dog on dog aggression is never a good thing, IMO. Sometimes some dogs to get their butts kicked but that is mostly up to their owners. I hunt Tug alone, mostly because I don't have another dog for him to hunt with yet, but I know my GSP has a tendency to have a short fuse with my buddies GSP, they hunt good together but when all settles down and we get back to the truck is when the short fuse shows. I just tell him "knock it off" and that is all he needs.
 
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I agree with Emerald. Dog aggression is Never ok. I am the Alpha dog Therefore....
Their dog food is mine
Their playmates are mine
Their bed is mine
Their dog box is mine
Their Kills are mine
They have nothing and I have everything
They Hunt for me not for theirselves (Big One in my book)
Everything they do they have to have my Permission and if they have to get permission to use or be a part of my things, they have nothing to fight about.
Dog aggression toward people is not tolerated at all, not once at my place. That is a dog that can and will never be trusted. As Emerald put it, ground work was not done as a pup to establish the alpha dog (The human).
Dog or human aggression should never be confussed with prey drive and aggression towards game. It is two complete different subjects. And are in no way related.
Dogs should be like a basket ball team and all work together. If you have one player not working with the others, you will not have the best team you could have. Remove the player or players that are not working with you or your team and you will be better off.
You are the Coach and owner of the team and you have to make it work.
 
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There has been great info shared here.
Devin "stole my thunder"
I feel the same way he does,here we rarely have an issue. Once in awhile with older dogs that are purchased, and are used to "being boss", I have issues with those dogs.
Some make it, some don't.
To handle dogs,you have to be the boss,(of all of them, all the time).
Just a side note, I learned a great lesson a few years ago.... I got a [beeep] dog from a guy, she wanted to fight the other dogs, all the time , over nothing, just fighty type dog. One day she grabbed one of the other dogs, and I shocked her, it went from bad to worse in half a second. The [beeep] was cut to peices, my other dog cut to peices.
When shocked for fighting, some dogs fight harder.
I broke up the fight, learned the valuable lesson, stitched up one dog, and buried the fighting [beeep].
No room for that here.
As for game aggression vs. human aggression. The first I demand, the second, would get a bullet.
Not had the problem with my breeding, but have dealt with it a few times, in dogs over the years.Not worth the risk.
There are alot of ways to prevent "dog aggression", before it ever happens. We start as soon as they start on "food".
It's mine, I share it. You eat nice, you eat, you fight, you get whacked in the head and go hungry. Pups learn that real fast.Just a first step.
I feed 8 dogs in the yard, in two dishes, the dogs range from few month old pups, to my older stud dogs.No fighting, or even growling, for that matter.
I think the food dish is a good place to see how dogs work together, and also prevent problems.
Just my thoughts.Duane
 
most of my hounds are on chains but a few are in kennels. they get fed all at once out of a big bin. they are mean 2 eachother then and i really dont care. they have to have a pack boss when im not there...when im there there is no fighting. if my hounds are loose they will defend the property and my other animals on the farm. yes ive had them bite a person but he also posed a threat to my mother one day. i like them to have some aggression but only when needed. there has to always be some sort of 'control.' if they were to ever make a move toward me or my family they would get a boot in the head and if it happened again i have a back hoe! just my opinions
 
Any aggression toward other dogs around here is not tolerated. They want to fight, they can fight me one time. After that, it is bye bye time. I dont care if it is over food, game, ect...

Now when it comes to my hunting dogs, if they so much as look at a person wrong, BANG. I have other dogs for that.

Their job is to hunt. Anything other than that I will not put up with. Yes I go out and spend time with than and let them be dogs also, but they know what will happen if they want to fight with each other.

If you want a dog for protection, get one for that purpose. A dog that you hunt with should never have any aggression toward people. Whats to stop them if they are out hunting and they just so happen to see someone walking or doing whatever and they bite them? I am not willing to take that risk, therefore if they mess up and bite just one person it is over!

I have always had a protection dog at my house. I train my own. I use the dog to protect my family when I am not around. The dog knows what its job is. But if the dog was to just bite someone without command, he as well will be walking through the valley of the shadow of death. Just a warning though. If you get a dog that you are going to use for protection, you better know what you are doing and make dang sure you can turn the dog off just as well as you can turn him on. A dog that will bite on command but will not stop biting the first time he is told is a huge liability.

Tim
 
I agree with most of the guys here when they say no aggression is allowed. Not towards me, another dog, or another person. Feed dish is something i start also at a young age and some pups have a problem with it but get over it very fast. I constantly take things away from my dogs like bones or toys so they know that their mine. I've gotten rid of a dog for dog/dog aggression and i'd do it again.
 
Are you guys saying you would cull a hunting dog for being aggressive toward strangers while being protective of it's family/home? Heck, I'd think that a bit of protective drive would be a welcomed bonus!

And I'm speaking of protection drive, not innate human aggression. I think there is a very distinct difference between the two, with the latter to not be tolerated under any circumstances.

As for kirby's GS dog, I've seen more than a few GS dogs like that. They continually "test the fences" to see who they can dominate & what they can get away with. And I don't think that trait is turned off with a simple lesson, moreso it is a constant battle of wits & will...

GS dogs were bred TO BITE PEOPLE, so I can't blame the dog for the 'attitude'. IMHO, that 'attitude' will always be there, ever vigilant of the opportunity to take control. Some people may enjoy dealing with that daily power struggle & potential headache, but I sure ain't one of 'em. To each, his own...

In a hunting dog, that type of dominating behavior serves no purpose in the woods. We were talking about hunting dogs, right?
 
Knockemdown, there are a few things you have to understand here, whenever you go from one type of hunting dog to another the differences can be plain as night and day. For a guy with dogs that strictly decoy, protective aggression may be ok because the dog is usually close by, and you can call them back if you see a stranger. A tree dog, or running dog on the other hand gets turned out, and you may not see it for 4 hours.

As we all know some dogs are pretty quick to claim an area as "theirs" so, that being said, you have a pack of dogs treeing coon at midnight, that tree belongs to them. The neighbor guy hears some ruckus, and goes to investigate and walks up to "your dogs tree" if its ok for your dogs to protect what's theirs, then the neighbor guy is about to have a bad day!

I prefer my running dogs to disappear when a stranger shows up. No one will lay a single hand on my hounds but me unless they are dead. They are about half coyote when it comes to strangers.
 
Originally Posted By: knockemdownAre you guys saying you would cull a hunting dog for being aggressive toward strangers while being protective of it's family/home? Heck, I'd think that a bit of protective drive would be a welcomed bonus!

Absolutely, no doubt about it. Now if my dogs were to bark because someone pulls in that is one thing. If they are to lunge, bite, or even act like they were going to, the dog is not going to stay long. But I am the kind of guy that only owns a dog for a purpose. I own terriers for hunting, and other dogs for other jobs. Take for instance, I have a pit bull that is my "family dog". I always keep a pit bull around, it has been that way for years.

I will have a at least one dog, if not two for biting. They are not used as "guard dogs", they are very stable and only bite when the time is needed. They can be trusted to be let outside without a chain, lead, ect.. and will not leave the yard, and if someone was to come here and meant no harm, they will gladly let them in "with a watchful eye of course".

My point is, hunting dogs should not play the role of guard dogs. If they do it at home they will do it elsewhere, thats when you really have trouble coming your way.

Tim
 
I wasn't referring to a wanton alligator that will bite at will, that trait needs culled.
I'm talking about your typical 'good watchdog' behavior. Aka, barking & threat displaying toward a stranger. Or being alerted by a 'bump' in the night, of sorts...

I'd think it only natural for almost ANY dog to possess a desire to protect it's family & home. That's why I'm having a hard time seeing this as undesirable behavior?

The way I look at it, a good dog has some sense about it. By sense I don't mean intelligence, by definition, but sense enough to make a judgement call about a perceived threat.

That's why I don't think that protection drive is the same as human aggression.

Tell me something about your your 'protection dog', Tim.
You've eluded that this dog has been trained in human bite work, yet is off lead at your house. So, may I ask then, how does that dog know WHICH person is deemed a threat and when to bite? That "watchful eye" as you call it, where did that trait come from? Isn't that dog using good sense to gauge it's response to a potential threat?

If so, then can't a hunting dog possess that same sense about when to protect it's home/family yet not be protective over downed game?
 
For me,a lot depends on the breed.I would not put up with say,a Beagle,or Pointer,being aggressive over a kill,or even a dog toy.Now I've never owned one,but I here that Chesapeake Bay Retrievers have lots of aggression.It's bred into them because of the rough conditions that they endure.If I owned one,I'd keep him or her apart at feeding time.And try to keep disputes from happening.I'd expect that breed to be territorial,especially with another dog.But it couldn't threaten a human.Most animals come to a "pecking order".If they get into a squabble once in a while without really hurting each other,I overlook it,but make a mental note.
 
Knockemdown, there is a huge difference between a dog that barks at the bump in the night, and a dog that goes to kill that bump in the night. Like tim said, if you want a guard dog, get one.

Would I mind if my hounds barked when a stranger came to the house? I guess not.

Do they? No

There is a difference between barking because someone is here, and barking because someone is here and I want to eat them.
 
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