.223 reduced loads

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nwvh longhair

New member
I have had the subject of reduced loads for .223 come up and have found some information on james calhouns website as well as another one, but I remember something from here that is bothering me. Didn't one of the members suffer an injury some years back using blue dot for reduced loads? Can they be done safely or is there an inherent risk of detonation that makes them a bad idea?

My thought had been to build a load that was somewhere between .22 wmr and standard .223 loads (closer to the wmr).

Thanks in advance

Robley
 
My question is why bother..??? There are lots of calibers out there that have the same effect. 222, 221 fireball, 22 Hornet.. Just to name a few...
 
Because I dont currently want to purchase another rifle, glass, as well as another set of reloading supplies (yet another type of brass dies powder etc..) and also because space for more rifles is at a premium on the trips my buddies and I take. Its a lot easier to pack a different box of ammo and to know the difference in zero.

p.s. thanks for the arf.com style response
 
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I have shot hundreds of rounds of Bluedot loads through both my .17 Rem and my .223- mostly through the .223. 40 grain bullets of some sort lit with a standard small rifle primer. I was shocked at the range one time when the .223 loads were punching one hole groups at 100 yards. Really suprising even.

I pretty much quit using them simply because they are not all that flat shooting. About like shooting a .17 HMR except with a bigger bullet. It is fun and quiet and accurate and if I were never going to take a ground squirrel any further than 150-175 yards it may be just the ticket. But I got a match grade .22lr that will take them that far and .17 Hummer that will take them a bit futher yet.

Like I said, they mighty cool so if you get a hankering to try them out have fun with it.
 
Originally Posted By: nwvh longhair but I remember something from here that is bothering me. Didn't one of the members suffer an injury some years back using blue dot for reduced loads? Can they be done safely or is there an inherent risk of detonation that makes them a bad idea?


WOW hold on a second.........

Someone got hurt while shooting reloads??????

None the less using pistol/shotgun powder for rifle loads?????

For real yes they can be done safely if you know what your doing and pay attention while your loading them! I have played with some but gave up on them when I watched a couple bullets tumble and just got tired of them because I couldn't get them to cycle the AR.

On a side note they are kind of fun to play with but for the time invested I found it easier to just grab the .22LR and use it instead!

Please be careful if you do play with them as things can go really bad in a hurry!
 
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Hodgdon has been carrying reduced velocity loads on their website loading data for some calibers for some time now. Not all calibers, nor all bullet weights, but some....I'd have to believe that their data has been tested pretty thoroughly toward safety with modern, scientific equipment. The older Speer loading manuals listed reduced loads regularly also, as does Richard Lee's Modern Handloading manual (not 100% sure that's the title, but it's close).

I see them as valuable here in PA, esp. for fall hunting where one can encounter coyotes, groundhogs, etc. where a stiff-loaded cartridge would be encountered, but turkey, squirrel, rabbits, fox, coon, etc. may also be legally taken and blowing the things up is not desired.
 
Robley,
I claim no expertise in the topic of "reduced loads." What I do know is that a close friend, who is a former Benchrest Shooter and who has more than 40 yrs of reloading experience in precision reloading, got cute not too long agao and decided to "experiment" with reduced load using a barely broken in Savage Model 110 .223 bolt gun. What he did at the range is something I could never have imagined being caused by a "reduced load." He fired one of his "customized loads" and it proceeded to blow that rifle into pieces. I mean the barrel went flying, blew part of the chamber forming away, shattered the stock and made the bolt face look like someone had been beating it with a ballpene hammer. I cannot remember the specifics of his load, only that he went under the minimum recommended load by the powder manufacturer. There were no injuries, only perhaps his ego for pulling such a STUPID stunt. Now I'm not saying "reduced loads" are stupid stunts. What I am saying is that it can be dangerous if your load gets so low in a casing that pressure is allowed to build inside that case to such a degree to cause that much explosive damage. BTW, the rifle (in pieces and at their request) was sent back to Savage for them to examine the remains, not that there was anything Savage did to cause this mess. If you'd like to see some pictures of the mess, PM me and I'll get your email address and send you some of the pictures because I have no clue how to post pictures on this website.
The moral of this story is simply be ultra careful if you get down below "minimum recommended powder loads."
 
I asked a valid question.. If you get your panties in a knot I can't help it. I have never understood the need to shoot reduced loads.. If you only have room for one rifle then why not shoot the load you normally use??
 
Trail boss is the ticket for reduced loads in ANY caliber.. You can't put enough in ANY case to cause trouble. 60 to 100 percent load density is perfect.

Just insure you have enough powder to have the bullet clear the barell.

Cowboy shooters swear by this in the 30-30, 45-70, 45 LC etc.
Works great in the 223 17 FB and REM>

dave
 
The greatest danger is probably from double charging a case using something like Bluedot or SR 4759. If you decide to proceed then charge and load one rnd at a time, and pick a large enough charge wt. so that a double charge will overflow the case to show it is double charged before seating the bullet. Trailboss has enough volume that it should never be a problem follwing the guidelines from Hodgdon, but it is pretty low velocity.
 
I use 2400 from the powder company site for reduced loads in my 223 and 800x for the 5.6x50R Mag. As for whats the use , I'm hunting for pelts and if I'm following up on a wounded coyote and have to finish him at a few feet a light load is great.

I use cast 86gr bullets my .25s still wotking on the 6mms.
AWS
 
I do it all the time in my Baikal 223/12ga. I use Blue Dot and 30gr. Berger MEF hp's or Barnes 36gr. Varmint Grenades. The Bergers are very fur friendly on small gray fox and the rifle shoots very well with the quieter loads. I do this so I can use full power loads when I'm hunting tougher game like coyotes and not have to have a second $1000 rig.
 
I have shot Trail Boss quite a bit in 223,243,6.5x55,270,7.62x54R,7.7x58,8x57.It works well. As MikeB said you can make your .223 into a dual purpose rifle.Very quiet in 223 by the way if that is your goal.The larger calibers sound like a 22mag.

Another facet is it doesn`t heat the barrel up very much so you could actually get some trigger time in the hot months.

Also recoil is practically zero if one is shooting a larger rifle.Good medicine for flinching.

The 8x57 Mauser or 7.62x54R with a 15gr dump of Trail Boss is tame compared to a full power load but very usable.

But of course any powder is not to be dis-respected.It appears to build up generous pressure in straight wall pistol cartridges just by looking at data,so respect should be given to it.I have not used TrailBoss in that application.

I have to agree with MikeB on it`s usefullness on smaller game.Clean kill and limited carnage.In a scoped M77 Ruger a 50gr VMax consistently shot 1.5 to 2 inches low from five yards to fifty and the same with 243 and 270.A mildot scope makes holdover easy.

As a matter of fact I plan on hunting squirrel/coyote this fall with,yes,a 243Winchester.
 
Thanks guys, I have been looking into this further as well. It sounds like trail boss is the answer if I find it available locally. If not, blue dot will do and is easy to get.

Thanks again

Robley
 
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I use trailboss in my .308 with 190 to 220 gr bullets for subsonic loads thru my suppressor, but have never used reduced sub loads in my .223's, just never saw a need to shoot a .22 cal that slow, for my use it doesn't have enough thump, unless I were just gonna shoot paper maybe..Not for sure but I think I read somewere that 4 or 5 grains of trailboss would work in the .223, you might get some better info on snipershide. There is a reloading section on subsonic loads there..
 
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