Having a Problem

Tackdriver

New member
Hello,
Let me first say, I believe in the 2nd Amendment. I belong to the NRA. But what do you guys do when you meet a person who just should plain and simple, should not own a firearm, or even a toenail clipper for that matter.

REALLY Long story short, I am referring to an individual who is on 4 kinds of psychotropic drugs to keep this person stable. And the drugs do not work all that well. This person has a witchy temper, a persecution complex, and lately, a fascianation with firearms, the likes of which I have never seen before. In 8 months this person has amassed a collection that is unreal given the time frame/income restrictions. This person now has a shotgun, several automatic hi-cap handguns, a 22-250, AR-15, and now wants a powerful tricked out 30 cal centerfire. All the while bitching about wages. Now this person is highly interested in body armour, gas masks, etc... Mind you, that this is also a person that does not have an affinity for hunting.

Through legal twists of fate, this person can still pass a state background check.

I do not see any good coming of this combination. As a matter of fact, I see a disaster. I doubt there is much that can be done about this person (yet) without all of the decent honest people suffering, but I just had to go vent, this is sort of scary, and this is the first time I have ever felt this way about another.

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Safety,Ethics, Accuracy, Velocity, Energy-I am On the Way to the Arizona Predator Hunt!!!!!!
 
Tackdriver, I may be wrong because it has been a while since I bought a firearm, but there are some questions a person must answer on a yellow federal form which stays in the gunshop of the purchase. At least one of those questions has to do with being mentally stable and or being addicted to mind altering drugs. If you answer yes to any of these questions you cannot buy the firearm. It is a felony to lie on that form and if you are convicted of a felony you cannot own firearms. I don't know all the detals of this persons situation but what I stated here may be something to look into if you wish to pursue it.

Good luck,
Daryl
 
I agree. Yet I don't see how this person was able to hide his medical and mental treatment background. Unless it wasn't hidden and deemed acceptable. If he's the loose cannon you say he is there's no way a generic background check can determine this. Mental health treatment alone should be a red flag that would trigger a more in-depth investigation into this persons acceptability. I can't imagine why that didn't happen. You also said "auto" handguns. Did you mean to say "semi-auto"?
 
Daryl look the words out of my mouth. To the best of my knowledge it would be illegal for him to posses firearms. In fact, I think it would be a felony to lie on the yellow sheet. This is assuming he bought the firearms through a dealer. Regardless, I don't think it is legal for him to posses a firearm.

I feel for you man. Talk about a rock and a hard place. Where does a guy draw the line between live and let live and civic duty. Tough one indeed.
 
Hello,
Nasa, Yes, he has a HK-USP (semi), and one of these rather generic "spray guns", the name escapes me, but you know, the Uzi genre of firearm. I beleive that this one is a pre-ban semi. Since I never speak of machine guns, I refer to all semi's as "automatics", it is just the way I talk and I should probably be more clear on the board. And this one was purchased privately, from what I have heard, as was the AR. As decent gun owners, this is a lesson that we must learn to police our own ranks if we sell any of our stuff to others. Better to take a little extra time to know the person and if they cause suspicion, better to forgo a little extra cash than leave a question mark for others to answer.

Well I have to run now. I am going to look into all this a little deeper. I never thought in a million years I would be in this place.

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Safety,Ethics, Accuracy, Velocity, Energy-I am On the Way to the Arizona Predator Hunt!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by Tackdriver (edited 08-08-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Tackdriver (edited 08-08-2001).]
 
I know there's a question on the "yellow form" about this. It's in the first column not sure if it's #3 or #4 but it's : "Have you ever been adjucated (sp?) mentally unstable?" Sounds like this guy has. I buy alot of guns from FFL's and get a delay put on me every time even after 20+ guns I've bought, I have no criminal record nor dose anyone in my family. I don't like the way an individual can sell a firearm to anyone without as much as checking his or her drivers licenes,and I have to go through the hassle of getting a delay and making another trip into town to pick up a gun I have purchased "legally". I think we do have plenty of restrictions on firearms but this is an issue I wouldn't mind seeing addressed.

Later,
Justin
 
It seems to me that you know a lot about this individual, indicating much more than a casual interest. I can't think of a single person about whom I'd have all the information that you have on this "person" and there are damned few who would be able to say all that about me. So what's the scoop here? Wouldn't be a pissed off ladyfriend or boyfriend, would it? And what's this about a "state background check"? Do you mean "Federal Background Check", as in "NICS"?

And lastly, is it your responsibility to worry about every potential problem you think might happen, somewhere, sometime, maybe? If you're that worried about it, go tell a cop, then go home and get a good night's sleep. Sure, it's hot, but don't let it get to ya'!
 
jbrad

Not trying to pick a fight....but....you need to read the 2nd amendment!

You wrote: "I don't like the way an individual can sell a firearm to anyone without as much as checking his or her drivers licenes,and I have to go through the hassle of getting a delay and making another trip into town to pick up a gun I have purchased "legally"."

First, private sales are LEGAL in Texas, if you don't want to go through NICS, buy through private transfers.....legally

Second, ANY background check is, in my opinion, an infringement of our 2nd amendment rights! I haven't read any portion of the constitution that authorizes the government to interfere with our right to own the firearm of our choice!

Third, If you have a problem with NICS, complain to your congress critter, hold their feet to the fire and force them to listen!!!

Bitching and moaning without doing what we can to change problems is exactly how we got into this mess!!!

Please don't take this as a flame, it is not meant to be, just a wake up call!
 
TackDriver,
If you have proof that the authorities can use, then you should probably call your nearest BATF office and report this guy. If they investigate the guy and find nothing to worry about, well then it is their worry instead of yours. If this guy walks in to a public building tomorrow and mows some innocent people down-------
 
GonHuntin,
First of all no offence taken. Your opinions are your own and mine are my own.Thats just the way it works. I do have a problem with private sales. I know they are legal. I don't think people should advertise guns in the paper or sell them at "trade days" without checking up on the person buying the firearms. I can go buy a firearm (pistols too) no questions asked from an idividual. So can any other person, even if they are mentally disturbed or even a convicted felon!I just don't feel safe about this law. Do you like the idea of a felon owning a gun? I I buy all my firearms through a FFL because I feel this way.If you don't thats fine.

Secondly, I am all for the 2nd amendment, all of the amendments for that matter. But I do beleve if you cannot purchase a gun from a FFL you have done something that is reason enough to have your rights taken away, or at least limited.The law is the the law and someone who breaks it dose not deserve the same rights as a law abiding citizen.Once again my opinion.

Third, I don't have a problem with the NICS. I do think things could change for the better but who am I to say. I do think I will write them pretty soon to see exactly they insist on putting a delay on every firearm I purchase,even after I've bought several in the last year.

Lastly,I'm not "bitching and moaning" about anything I'm just stating my opinion and I belive that is also my constutional right.

Later,
Justin

BTW: It's question number 5 on the yellow form "Have you ever been adjucated mentally disturbed or commited to a mental institution?" I filled one out yestereday.
 
An "adjudication" is the ruling of a court of competent jurisdiction that your pal is a loon. I don't think you indicated that he had been adjudicated as mentally defective.

I have known people under treatment for various mental disorders, the most common being depression. The treatment generally includes some sort of psychotropic drugs such as prozac etc. I would recomment we be really cautious what we advocate with respect to these people, or with respect to psychological treatment and the right to own firearms. Just cause they are under treatment does not indicate that they are more or less likely to twist off and go postal.

That said, I agree that it would be a good idea to contact the authorities with your concerns. Most states have committment proceedings for folks who present a danger to themselves or others.



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Regards,

Sharps Shooter.

'74 Sharps... when you care enough to use the very best.
 
It sounds to me like your baseing your opinion on gut feeling reinforced with a reasonable amount of knowledge about the individual.
I had a friend gunned down in the Luby's massacre in Killen a few years back. I wish someone had checked the shooter closer. It may have prevented that one.

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Thanks for your time--
 
Jbrad

The one MAJOR flaw in your thinking is that ANY law will prevent a bad guy from getting and using a firearm.

By definition, criminals don't obey laws.....it really is that simple......

So, you want to place restrictions, on the good guys (background checks, waiting periods, all sales through FFLs), that have absolutely no effect on the bad guys???

Your type of thinking is the exact foothold that the anti's try to use to strip us of our rights. "If it only prevents one crime", "If it only saves one life" "If it only makes us safer" then all the restrictions are worth it.......Well, they are certainly not worth it to me! When we allow even a minor infringement on our freedom, we lose something we can never regain.

My theory??? Any citizen should be allowed to own and carry any small arms they choose as long as they don't misuse them...period.....

No background checks, no waiting periods, no paperwork.......however, if a weapon is misused.......punishment is swift, certain and very severe!

Some might say we wouldn't be safe with those rules......I say we shouldn't trade liberty for safety!

Can we really say all the rules and restriction placed on guns have made us any safer??? How could they if the bad guys ignore the rules???

Let's look at it this way, has crime increased or decreased because of the following laws:

National Firearms Act of 1934

Gun Control Act of 1968

Brady Law

Assault Weapons Ban

NONE of these laws had any effect on crime, yet each one took away part of our freedom!

Here's another item for you to consider:

Make a list of cities with the highest violent crime rate and compare that to a list of cities with the strictest gun control laws. Do you see a connection? Why, if gun control laws work, do the cities with the strictest gun control laws have the highest crime rates??? The fact is, they don't work, never have, never will!

NO gun control law will make any of us safer and that's the bottom line!
 
GonHuntin,
Your last post contains so much truth that it hurts. Criminals and loony birds will always have guns. We need swift and certain punishment for those who use weapons to commit crimes. We don't need any more gun control laws and that is for certain. I do feel that if I know of a loony bird who is stocking up an arsenal with added talk of how he is gonna save the world from the commies or something, that I should report him to the authorities.
 
Here's a little addition to what GonHuntin has posted. This type of "just give a little" mentality about gun control is what caused England to impose an outright ban on civilian ownership of any handgun and severely restrict the ownership of long guns. Has the ban worked? NO! Poor old England is now having to arm their cops (how novel) because gun crime is sweeping the nation. The English gave up their freedom of gun ownership for "safety" and guess what, it failed! There's now more crime than ever. And the poor SOBs can't even legally defend themselves from criminals that run rampant in the cities.

So, when you start to think that forsaking a little liberty will help us be safer, just pick up the newspaper and read about England (or Australia, or NYC, or LA, or DC, where crime rate is astronomical but your supposedly safe because at least your neighbor can't own a gun). Limitations on the individual's inalienable right to own guns are flat out stupid. Do I want a MAC10 (or some other "assault weapon"? No, but if I thought it was necessary for my protection or entertainment, why shouldn't I be able to get one? As long as one person doesn't use his/her rights (speech, gun ownership, etc. etc.) to limit or restrict another's right to exercise his/her own, then what's the problem?
 
I know of a fellow that is the same way. Always buying guns with high capacity mags and the like and is known to have had past mental issues. All I can say to you is, atleast your fellow is seeking professional help and treatment so he appearently understands there are some issues. My guy, he's just a loose cannon! Concerned friends and relatives have spoken with him and the authorities; but they can't do anything about it until something major happens. Thus, this is how our system works. It's not a preventative system, it's a reactionary one. I can say i'd rather have this reactive system than the other, as you can see just how restrictive their preventative measures are!
 
Hello,
Sid, well if you ever go to work in a very small plant, you will find out that there is nobody that you do not know as well as you know yourself, beleive me. Most of what I know I have either had this individual tell me 1st hand, witnessed it 1st hand, or heard it second hand from guys that are reliable people.

Well here is some more info on the situation.
About 10 days ago I informed my supervisor of the situation, and he had a talk with this individual. As it happens, I am not the only one that carries this concern. This individual has not been "adjudicated", in the legal definition of the term as I understand it (I.E., strapped down and sent to a home). His treatment stems from another court ruling, He SHOULD have been in prison, (Drunk Driving-And NE law is very harsh about convictions for this; and rightfully so) but it got pled down to a midsdemeanor, with the stipualtion that he attend some counseling. This was some time ago, prior to him deciding he would like a gun collection. About a year ago he got his first pistol, the HK-USP and although I did not think it possible, he did pass the state background check.

The way we do it in NE is you can either have a NICs run every time you get a firearm, and go under the Federal law, or you can apply for a state card, where they do a state check, and showing the card is then proof to the dealer.

Now a little more about this individual. He is a co-worker of limited talents. After attending his counseling sessions he was found to suffer from "bipolar disorder", and was put on Prozac, Lithium, and a couple other anti-psycotic drugs to keep him "stable". They don't help much.
And in addition to the firearms thing, he also is a heavy drinker. You are not supposed to mix the sauce with these drugs, but according to what I have heard, he does. I have heard that a couple of guys had to follow him home from the bar to make sure he didn't squish some innocent person the other day.
To make matters worse, he just joined the NRA. Which is not the kind of member that organization needs. Because when something happens, the headlines will be NRA Member John Doe.......

Anyway, as I said before, I am an NRA member, a 2nd Amendment believer, also I do care a lot about my community and the people in it. Which is why I do not like seeing what I am seeing.

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Safety,Ethics, Accuracy, Velocity, Energy-I am On the Way to the Arizona Predator Hunt!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by Tackdriver (edited 08-10-2001).]
 
GonHuntin,
Mr Heston would be proud of you, you answer with textbook NRA answers.I have not said a damn thing about not allowing an individual to buy a gun. I have been talking about an individual selling a gun without doing a background check.

And no I do not think that any law will help prevent a "bad guy" from getting a gun. But it might detour someone who isn't a bad guy but dosen't really need to own a gun.

But anyways I am sorry you find my thinkin "Flawed". But thats the way I think and will continue to do so. And no ammount of words from you will change that. I am sorry you disagree, but I am willing to agree to disagree and let this be the end of it. No need getting up in arms about your opinion vs. mine.

Later,
Justin

[This message has been edited by Jbrad (edited 08-10-2001).]
 
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