In a couple of weeks, I pla on doing a two day hiking trip with some freinds and after the last camping trip, I wouldnt go again without some form of a personal protection firearm and a cell phone(thats a whole different story). I was thinking about taking my single shot 12 gauge with mod. choke a 28" barrel but dont know what loads to use for protection against people who intend to cause personal harm to me. Does anyone know what the basic laws are about packing some type of firearm in the mountains/woods of the sierra's in N.California? God forbid I shall ever have to use but its better safe than sorry.
Personal protection
- Thread starter andrew
- Start date
Andrew,
I've heard that #4 buckshot does one heckofa job!
What kind of area is it that you need protection from people who intend to do harm?
To be honest I think I would take some kind of handgun rather then a longgun for ease of carrying. But a shotgun is pretty intimidating to say the least.
I guess I will leave you with a good luck on your camping trip. And be safe.
Ryan
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I've heard that #4 buckshot does one heckofa job!
What kind of area is it that you need protection from people who intend to do harm?
To be honest I think I would take some kind of handgun rather then a longgun for ease of carrying. But a shotgun is pretty intimidating to say the least.
I guess I will leave you with a good luck on your camping trip. And be safe.
Ryan
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Andrew,
Not sure what happened that has you so buggered about being in the woods. I feel safer in the woods than I do going to wal-mart. As far as what to use for self protection here is something to think about. If you take a long gun, every time you do anything with your hands you have to set it down. Anyone that wants to bother you will know this and will wait for the right moment. If you use a handgun and carry it in a holster it is always with you wherever you go.
Take care,
Daryl
Not sure what happened that has you so buggered about being in the woods. I feel safer in the woods than I do going to wal-mart. As far as what to use for self protection here is something to think about. If you take a long gun, every time you do anything with your hands you have to set it down. Anyone that wants to bother you will know this and will wait for the right moment. If you use a handgun and carry it in a holster it is always with you wherever you go.
Take care,
Daryl
Encore,
Not sure what you mean, but no, no particular reason at all. Just seemed like Andrew is awfully nervous about going hiking. Where I hunt here along the mexican border there are illegals and drug runners all over and I still feel safer there than I do in town. I've even shared a soda or two with some of them and sometimes get a tip on where to find whatever critter I'm hunting for. Either way I carry a .40 cal Glock most places I go...
Not sure what you mean, but no, no particular reason at all. Just seemed like Andrew is awfully nervous about going hiking. Where I hunt here along the mexican border there are illegals and drug runners all over and I still feel safer there than I do in town. I've even shared a soda or two with some of them and sometimes get a tip on where to find whatever critter I'm hunting for. Either way I carry a .40 cal Glock most places I go...
Jason El Paso
Active member
I am with Daryl, I hunt around the Mexico Border, and I always have two HK-USP-9mm, on the shoulder and a Colt 45 on the back, lots of clips, and bulltes, I tend to call in more wetbacks then predators
he,he,he,he!
Andrew I would also say the #4 would work too I would cary my AR-15 or Mini-14 over the shotgun Oh yeah you in California, scratch the AR & Mini take a few handguns, make the first shot chambered in snakeshot then the others with some good HP.
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Jason's Gun Room
Quality Custom Gunsmithing http://predatormasters.com/jasongunroom.html
www.LostMountainHunts.com
Andrew I would also say the #4 would work too I would cary my AR-15 or Mini-14 over the shotgun Oh yeah you in California, scratch the AR & Mini take a few handguns, make the first shot chambered in snakeshot then the others with some good HP.
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Jason's Gun Room
Quality Custom Gunsmithing http://predatormasters.com/jasongunroom.html
www.LostMountainHunts.com
Not to be disrespectful....but.....willingly going where you think you will need a gun to defend yourself is absolutely stupid!
I am a licensed concealed carry instructor and I discuss this with every class I teach. I carry a concealed handgun about 95% of the time I'm outside my home.......why.....'cause I never know when I might need it. Even so, I NEVER purposely go where I think I WILL need it 'cause carrying a weapon does NOT make me bulletproof!
I don't wear a seat belt so I can drive recklessly and I don't carry a gun so I can go places that are dangerous. I believe it is my responsibility to be prepared to protect my family and myself but it is foolish to tempt fate.
This isn't directed to anyone in particular......just something to think about..........
I am a licensed concealed carry instructor and I discuss this with every class I teach. I carry a concealed handgun about 95% of the time I'm outside my home.......why.....'cause I never know when I might need it. Even so, I NEVER purposely go where I think I WILL need it 'cause carrying a weapon does NOT make me bulletproof!
I don't wear a seat belt so I can drive recklessly and I don't carry a gun so I can go places that are dangerous. I believe it is my responsibility to be prepared to protect my family and myself but it is foolish to tempt fate.
This isn't directed to anyone in particular......just something to think about..........
GonHuntin
I would also never go where I thought I would need a gun. However, where I live the wetbacks and drug runners are a fact of life. You either deal with them or stay home. Most of them are harmless. Even the drug runners are mostly just mules carrying a load for someone else and they would rather run that face trouble. But just like going to town, you never know. I've been carrying concealed for over 6 years now and have never needed the firearm. I am not paranoid nor am I stupid. I am prepared.
Oh, and welcome to Predator Masters!!
I would also never go where I thought I would need a gun. However, where I live the wetbacks and drug runners are a fact of life. You either deal with them or stay home. Most of them are harmless. Even the drug runners are mostly just mules carrying a load for someone else and they would rather run that face trouble. But just like going to town, you never know. I've been carrying concealed for over 6 years now and have never needed the firearm. I am not paranoid nor am I stupid. I am prepared.
Oh, and welcome to Predator Masters!!
Jason El Paso
Active member
Gon Huntin, you do bring up a good point in what you said and I agree to a point. (I HOPE I DONOT UP-SET YOU IF I WORD THIS WRONG IF YOU TAKE IT THE WRONG WAY I AM SORRY). I also been licensed, to carry concealed since the State of Texas started it back some years ago and I was one of the first in El Paso to get licensed to carry. As Daryl said we are in a border town and we have a lot of drug runner in our areas, I hunt around the Rio-Grand River and have came across several so call Bad Guys and I'll tell you first hand my concealed hand gun was not the first thing I grab it will be one of the last my first would be my Mini-14, or AR-15 it depends on what I take and where I am going to hunt. I don't have many good open places here to hunt, or fish I do have to travel so I always go prepared to fight as well as to hunt or fish, and being a firearm dealer I am always ready for the un-expected because some poor brave person will try to rob you at work, home, or hunting/fishing. I always carry my 9's or 45acp in town out of town around town. I am not bulletproof, I will bleed the same as everybody, like you said its our responsibility to be prepared to go into battel to pretect our familys and ourselves. And yes it is foolish to tempt fate, and I agree. I am prepared as Daryl also states. But not to get off the main question that Andrew ask, I see that Andrew also want to be prepared just incase a human predator stock him and his friends while out having fun in the California sun. And I will close this to all lets not let this get out of hand, if anybody chooses to do so please keep it in an e-mail form and not to post on the board. Thank you.
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Jason's Gun Room
Quality Custom Gunsmithing http://predatormasters.com/jasongunroom.html
www.LostMountainHunts.com
[This message has been edited by Jason El Paso (edited 07-10-2001).]
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Jason's Gun Room
Quality Custom Gunsmithing http://predatormasters.com/jasongunroom.html
www.LostMountainHunts.com
[This message has been edited by Jason El Paso (edited 07-10-2001).]
Jason El Paso
Active member
Once again I am sorry if I came across the wrong way to anybody, on my last post.
Good and safe hunting to all.
Good and safe hunting to all.
Jason & Daryl
No problem with what you wrote, nothing wrong with being prepared. But, like me, I'm sure there are places you just don't go because it is more likely that you will find trouble. For instance, I live near Tulsa and I know that the north side of town is not the place for someone like me to be! Going there in the daylight is bad enough, but going there at night is just asking for trouble from gangs and other bad guys. So, gun or no gun, I don't go there!
However, as you know, there are some who think carrying a gun will solve any problem they may encounter and foolishly walk right into trouble. I don't know Andrew's story, but I'd think long and hard before I'd walk back into the situation he alluded to....with or without a gun! If he carries one, 1. He better be willing and able to use it, and 2. He better be willing to deal with the conquenses if he does. Can't you hear the prosecuting attorney now..."he went back to this area looking for the people who messed with him....and this time, he brought a gun! Truth or fiction, you know that's what the jury would hear....would you take that chance? NOT ME!
Jason, I also agree with your choice of what to grab if TSHTF. I think it was Jeff Cooper who said the purpose of carrying a handgun was to help you fight your way to a rifle or shotgun! I'd take my AR over ANY handgun!
[This message has been edited by GonHuntin (edited 07-11-2001).]
No problem with what you wrote, nothing wrong with being prepared. But, like me, I'm sure there are places you just don't go because it is more likely that you will find trouble. For instance, I live near Tulsa and I know that the north side of town is not the place for someone like me to be! Going there in the daylight is bad enough, but going there at night is just asking for trouble from gangs and other bad guys. So, gun or no gun, I don't go there!
However, as you know, there are some who think carrying a gun will solve any problem they may encounter and foolishly walk right into trouble. I don't know Andrew's story, but I'd think long and hard before I'd walk back into the situation he alluded to....with or without a gun! If he carries one, 1. He better be willing and able to use it, and 2. He better be willing to deal with the conquenses if he does. Can't you hear the prosecuting attorney now..."he went back to this area looking for the people who messed with him....and this time, he brought a gun! Truth or fiction, you know that's what the jury would hear....would you take that chance? NOT ME!
Jason, I also agree with your choice of what to grab if TSHTF. I think it was Jeff Cooper who said the purpose of carrying a handgun was to help you fight your way to a rifle or shotgun! I'd take my AR over ANY handgun!
[This message has been edited by GonHuntin (edited 07-11-2001).]
Jason El Paso
Active member
I have seen that photo before or it looks the same as one I seen on the old shadetree?
or it could have been posse country in the start.
or it could have been posse country in the start.
Rich in AZ
New member
Daryl, "bugger" is a British colloquilism that refers to an act between 2 men that most here would find anti-social and surprising. You gotta watch your back around Encore, he cracks me up. Rich in Az.
I know you guys sre wondering about my situation so I will let you know what happened. About 3 months ago me and a bunch of freinds went camping up in N. California. We found this beutiful, secluded, open little spot with a creek running through it and there were only 2 other camps in there and there was plenty of room for us all. The first night we met some of the other camper which was a group of about 20 or 25 Russian guys that were all from 18-22 in age and they seemed like really nice guys. In fact, we had to pull two of there 2wd trucks out of the sand. The other group was a bunch of college kids that were pretty nice folks. The next evening, some of the college kids come flying up into our camp with the back of their pick-up filled with kids and they were screaming at us to come and help. We were all up for it but didnt really know what was going on. Just as we get into our trucks the Russians come flying up and it turns out they followed them to our camp. I still have no idea what the hell is going on but I do know the Russians are pretty pissed. Then, the rest of the college folks come up into our camp and the russians start picking up rocks and bottles and start to throw them at the college kids trucks and at them. Basically, we are caught between a fight between the two camps but its taking place in our camp. We happened to have a 12 gauge and a 30-30 and one of my freinds shoots the shotgun on the air and the russians scatter like roaches. After it was all said and done, there were several injuries and alot of damage to vehicles. It even made the local paper and they had police from all around and it was a terrible situation. We werent even directly involved and they started being aggressive towards us. A peaceful situation that should have been fun in a secluded palce with few people turned ugly. I would just like to be prepared in a place where help from the authorities would definantly not arrive in time. I am only 19 years old and god forbid, would hate to lose my life in a situation where the sight or sound of a 12 gauge shotgun would hopefuly neutralize the threat. If not, than I guess I will have to be prepared to defend my life but I think and hope it will never have to come to that.
Tackdriver
New member
Andrew,
The point of self-defense firearms is to neutralize a threat to you. If this happens to cause a fatality, that is one outcome, not neccearily the only outcome and not neccessarily the best outcome.
Listen to the others that talk about not going where there is a potential threat, find a different camping spot. Should not be too hard.
Now on to self defense firearms. If you are interested in the 12 gauge, that is a good choice, although it is a 2 hand firearm. Make the first round a load of "rubber" shot. The police use this during periods of riots where they want to repel, not kill. And it is very effective. A subject fired upon with this stuff will have the wind knocked out of him, and while he is turning blue, you will have a chance to run. Load the remaining with something like 3 inch number 4, good pattern density load.
As for California, I can not reccomend you carry a handgun, because of what I have heard about the political climate. But any good caliber that you are familiar with will do, self-defense gurus tend to stay away from the hard kicking rounds like 41 mag, on up, the rationale being a quicker followup shot, and no collateral damage from overpenetration. If you pinned me down, I would go with 44 special. I don't like autos. Or a revolver in 45 acp shooting moon clips.
Any good rifle from 22 on up will suffice.
Like I said before, Please listen to the others, do not put yourself in a situation where you will need to take a defensive stand, and make sure you exhaust all your other options to ending the conflict before you fire.
Be Smart.
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Safety,Ethics, Accuracy, Velocity, Energy-I am On the Way to the Arizona Predator Hunt!!!!!!
The point of self-defense firearms is to neutralize a threat to you. If this happens to cause a fatality, that is one outcome, not neccearily the only outcome and not neccessarily the best outcome.
Listen to the others that talk about not going where there is a potential threat, find a different camping spot. Should not be too hard.
Now on to self defense firearms. If you are interested in the 12 gauge, that is a good choice, although it is a 2 hand firearm. Make the first round a load of "rubber" shot. The police use this during periods of riots where they want to repel, not kill. And it is very effective. A subject fired upon with this stuff will have the wind knocked out of him, and while he is turning blue, you will have a chance to run. Load the remaining with something like 3 inch number 4, good pattern density load.
As for California, I can not reccomend you carry a handgun, because of what I have heard about the political climate. But any good caliber that you are familiar with will do, self-defense gurus tend to stay away from the hard kicking rounds like 41 mag, on up, the rationale being a quicker followup shot, and no collateral damage from overpenetration. If you pinned me down, I would go with 44 special. I don't like autos. Or a revolver in 45 acp shooting moon clips.
Any good rifle from 22 on up will suffice.
Like I said before, Please listen to the others, do not put yourself in a situation where you will need to take a defensive stand, and make sure you exhaust all your other options to ending the conflict before you fire.
Be Smart.
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Safety,Ethics, Accuracy, Velocity, Energy-I am On the Way to the Arizona Predator Hunt!!!!!!
Thanks guys. I understand that its not smart to go someplce you suspect there to be trouble but with all the different people using the woods today, you never know. I guess what I am trying to say is that you never know where trouble will be find you and in a place were you have to defend yourself if something does arrive its good to know what it will take to protect yourself.
Andrew sorry to hear about a bad camping experience, hopefully you will never have a problem like that happen again. On the shotgun I am not sure if you have heard of a self defense shotgun, they hold 7 shells, one is called a street sweeper and it holds 12 shots.
Daryl and Jason I am glad I dont live on the border. I have heard several stories from an older retired border patrol agent. Sometimes these people get so desperate they are willing to do anything. At least you all are prepared, and have your eyes open to the danger.
New Mexico just passed a concealed carry law. It will go into effect next year. I am strongly thinking about doing it. I had an incident a few years back, were I did have to use force with a 12 gauge. Let me say I am glad I had it or things may have gotten really out of hand. (The assailant ran my boss over in our lot with a Kenworth then tried to hit me)
Talk to you guys later,
Chad
Daryl and Jason I am glad I dont live on the border. I have heard several stories from an older retired border patrol agent. Sometimes these people get so desperate they are willing to do anything. At least you all are prepared, and have your eyes open to the danger.
New Mexico just passed a concealed carry law. It will go into effect next year. I am strongly thinking about doing it. I had an incident a few years back, were I did have to use force with a 12 gauge. Let me say I am glad I had it or things may have gotten really out of hand. (The assailant ran my boss over in our lot with a Kenworth then tried to hit me)
Talk to you guys later,
Chad
I'll probably be in line for the CCW permit here in NM too. The bad thing is the price: $100 for the first time and $50/year renewal fee. Seems a bit steep to me. I also have first-hand experience with the use of a firearm for self defense. Luckily, all I had to do was draw and point, no firing required. Even through their drunken stupor, the would-be attackers (all 6 or 7 of them) had the sense to back down from my .45 and my dad's .357 stuck in their faces. It sure was a test of my resolve to use a firearm in self defense, though. I don't ever want to, but I know now that if pressed, I will fire. Thought I was going to have to wing one of 'em that last time just to prove it.
I hope that nobody takes this post the wrong way. It is intended for informational purposes only.
The use of deadly force can be a really hard thing to justify. Anytime you pull a gun you should be able to justify shooting the assailant. If not, at least here in Arizona, it is considered brandishing a weapon and it is a felony. It is also illegal to shoot someone with the intent to wound them. The only reason to shoot should be to end the threat, and to intend to end the threat you must intend to kill. If you have a choice between fight or flight, then run. The only justification for using deadly force is to save a life or to stop a major felony in progress.
As stated above, I have held a ccw for over 6 years now and have been lucky enough never to need it. It doesn't make someone tougher or bullet proof. It simply gives you a way to protect yourself when all other options have been exhausted. Your brain is your best defense.
Y'all take care,
Daryl
The use of deadly force can be a really hard thing to justify. Anytime you pull a gun you should be able to justify shooting the assailant. If not, at least here in Arizona, it is considered brandishing a weapon and it is a felony. It is also illegal to shoot someone with the intent to wound them. The only reason to shoot should be to end the threat, and to intend to end the threat you must intend to kill. If you have a choice between fight or flight, then run. The only justification for using deadly force is to save a life or to stop a major felony in progress.
As stated above, I have held a ccw for over 6 years now and have been lucky enough never to need it. It doesn't make someone tougher or bullet proof. It simply gives you a way to protect yourself when all other options have been exhausted. Your brain is your best defense.
Y'all take care,
Daryl