Rem 700 fires when safety is released...

Maybe, maybe not. I wasn't there, so I can't rightfully say.

What I do know is that I was talking to a couple of guys at a gun show right after the "documentary" aired. One guy said he had his gun accidentally discharge when he took the safety off. After he walked away, his buddy said to me that he clearly had his finger on the trigger, but that he would never admit it.........
 
Originally Posted By: 2muchgunMaybe, maybe not. I wasn't there, so I can't rightfully say.

What I do know is that I was talking to a couple of guys at a gun show right after the "documentary" aired. One guy said he had his gun accidentally discharge when he took the safety off. After he walked away, his buddy said to me that he clearly had his finger on the trigger, but that he would never admit it.........

You are probably right.....the vast majority of these incidents, but certainly not all, can probably be attributed to some type of user error. I see this much the same as the "problem" with the Toyota gas pedals last summer.
 
funny how it keeps happening to Remington.
It happened to me. I purchased a new Remington 700 and had the shop install and bore sight the scope. I sighted it in and shot some targets. Maybe two boxes of ammo.
A few months later a neighbor told me these rifles may have a problem. I contacted Remington and they told me not to be concerned but if it made me feel better, I could take it to a Remington certified gunsmith at my expense.
I did and the gunsmith gave it a clean bill of health. I also remember him acting like I was an idiot because these were great rifles and never had a problem.
Before hunting season we decided to go shoot a few targets just to make sure things were on.
Well the Remington discharged luckily on the bench pointed downrange at the target. Whatever you want to term it AD, FRS Poor design, it happened.
First thing most everyone defends their Remington and says you must have adjusted it. Well to that point in my life I had never turned a single screw on any gun and had no idea a trigger was even adjustable. I knew gun safety and how to operate what Remington gave me.
I promptly sold the gun and never bought another Remington rifle.
It does not surprise me then that this keeps coming up decade after decade. Sure maybe you can discount that some may have adjusted the trigger, maybe some can be blamed on maintenace or lack of, or when it happens and someone gets hurt then you can blame poor safety, But it keeps coming up with Remington.
There will be those that will go a lifetime with many guns and never have a problem and a few with one gun that do. That's the numbers but it still keeps coming up with Remington.

When guns blow up, first thing most people think and state is poor reloads or wrong caliber. Well when a few Sako's blew up it was caused by a bad batch of steel. They quickly tracked and found those guns. I bought one of the guns in that initial recall period. When I called mine was cleared. Does that mean that it never happened or was user caused because my gun did not blow up? Certainly not and Sako stepped up and took care of it. Many people never even heard of it.

I saw a customer first hand, an educated elderly man, purchase an S&W pistol and two boxes of ammo. Headed out to the range. Shortly he returned with the butt and part of the frame in hand. The pistol had exploded luckily without injury. S&W nicely and quietly replaced the gun overnight.
I posted about this right here in this forum and got several comments starting with BS, had to be hot reloads, wrong ammo. All the typical responses ,guy must be an idiot.
Well turned out that when shooting the ultralight revolvers the recoil was unseating the bullets then retarding cylinder rotation. The guns now come with a warning of shooting the wrong ammo.
Has it happened to me? No, that doesn't mean it didn't happen to a few others.
 
Funny I hadn't heard a thing about it in years and years until some left wing politicians/trial lawyers/media decided they would air a show about it and stir the pot........
 
I saw this thread and after reading thru all the posts am not sure I really want to post this .... but being the pot-stirring agitator that I am could not stop myself.
I have a Remington 700 that I bought that has the older trigger and before I ever shot it had our local gunsmith do a trigger job( I have two others with his trigger jobs and they have had no issues YET).
Well about a month ago on a really cold morning at daylight I sat down to call and I had my rifle propped on the sticks pointed upward at about 45 degree angle. It was so still and I knew that whatever came in would be realtively close so I decided to see how loud my safety would be to see if I could wait to flip it to fire when I saw my quarry or was I going to have to carefully ease it forward to keep the sound down. Well when I flipped it to fire... IT DID. I froze startled and looked down to see if my figger was near the trigger but my entire hand was wrapped around the grip and nowhere near the trigger. I got up and went to my next spot and kept hunting all day and each set-up I tried and tried to get it to repeat the AD and it has not happened since. I shot the gun yesterday at the range again with no issues.
 
Originally Posted By: venaticI saw this thread and after reading thru all the posts am not sure I really want to post this .... but being the pot-stirring agitator that I am could not stop myself.
I have a Remington 700 that I bought that has the older trigger and before I ever shot it had our local gunsmith do a trigger job( I have two others with his trigger jobs and they have had no issues YET).
Well about a month ago on a really cold morning at daylight I sat down to call and I had my rifle propped on the sticks pointed upward at about 45 degree angle. It was so still and I knew that whatever came in would be realtively close so I decided to see how loud my safety would be to see if I could wait to flip it to fire when I saw my quarry or was I going to have to carefully ease it forward to keep the sound down. Well when I flipped it to fire... IT DID. I froze startled and looked down to see if my figger was near the trigger but my entire hand was wrapped around the grip and nowhere near the trigger. I got up and went to my next spot and kept hunting all day and each set-up I tried and tried to get it to repeat the AD and it has not happened since. I shot the gun yesterday at the range again with no issues.

That is exactly my point, venatic. They can and do FRS and there is no predicting if or when! Just because one has "never had a problem" doesn't mean he never will.


Originally Posted By: 2muchgunMaybe, maybe not. I wasn't there, so I can't rightfully say.


No maybe about it, I was there and it did happen exactly as stated. I was strapped into the rifle in the prone position, left hand under forearm and, using right thumb and trigger finger pushed safety forward when the gun fired
scared.gif
. Pretty hard to get a finger near the trigger in that position. Again, this was the first round through a new rifle so if trigger was incorrectly adjusted, it was done at the factory.



Originally Posted By: 2muchgun Funny I hadn't heard a thing about it in years and years until some left wing politicians/trial lawyers/media decided they would air a show about it and stir the pot........


We all have different experiences to draw on in forming our opinions and that is a good thing. I worked in a gunsmith's shop as a teenager in the early to late 50's and, while I cannot recall an exact number, there were more than a few 721's that came in with the same complaint......"gun went off when taken off safety", so IMHO, this is not a recent development and cannot be blamed entirely on left wing politicians, trial lawyers/media. It was, to the best of my recollection, never a Mod. 70, etc.

Any rate, my point is: Watch yer muzzle!

Regards,
hm

 
40 rounds through a gun still is pretty "new" to me, and the AD could have been caused by some gunk or a chip. I had 50 rounds through a TC muzzleloader (purchased new) and a small wood chip got between engagement surfaces and when I capped it, no hand near the trigger- it blew a nice hole in the ground. I took it apart and out came a chip. I sanded and sealed all around the lock inlet and it never messed up again.

So, to those who have had Rem 700 AD's within less than 100 rounds, or right from the first.......how in the flying flip can you say with certaintly that the design of the trigger was the problem?

Unless you checked for foreign material in a freakin/ clean/white table tob cleanroom bench, then recorded all measurements of the trigger, took it apart and checked dims on all parts, cleaned and assembled it exactly as it was before, and got the AD again..........then you can say the design.

It might not be a perfect design but by golly there's a lot of hearsay and p*sspoor problem solving tecdhniques put forth.

Again, you got an AD with a 700, not saying that didn't happen (but we've had recently posts about the same that within thread were confessed finger on the trigger incidents).

The 40XC......new gun. Dunno what caused the problem and it can't be said without proper examination/process what caused it.

If you suspect it a bad trigger design, so be it. But don't claim it unless you can freakin' prove it.

Until somebody in an engineering manner, and properly, proves the problem I aint gonna buy into the hype.

Again, 90+% of the problems we got with our products were "No problem found". Dealers and customers don't have to be smart or honest to be unhappy.

Manufacturers eat a lot of $ just to shut them up.

yes, some manufacturers know of problems and cover them up, and they should get nailed for such actions.

But the show in question, and the hype, along with the dumbing down of America........I'm calling BS on the mess.

As for the military rigs going bang before ready, what sniper would want such a gun, and why would they keep ordering it. My suspicion there is that snippet was taken out of context or falsely represented.

Not saying that gun didn't have a problem. But how many rounds had it been shot, who messed with the trigger (they aint stock) and how many AD's were logged on it?

Was it set up to mess up as part of some training? Was it a "this is what happens when you don't set the adjustments like we say?".

Maybe it was a good rifle that after XXXX rounds had a problem develop, the situation used to illustrate why maintenance should be performed before XXXX rounds are put through.

Dunno?

But would think an elite group that uses stealth wouldn't keep problematic rigs in use.

Oh, but that's using common sense, and lawyers prey upon the lack of it.


OK cold morning (ref to post just a few above) and a reworked trigger. What lube? What did your smith do? (BTW< I've seen some guys who call themselves smiths when they should be called butchers, so just because you paid somebody to work on your stuff that doesn't mean that it was worked on by somebody that knew WTH they were doing.......and even if it was done by somebody of great competence, that doesn't mean they didn't make a mistake.

Which would then point to the work performed, materials used and NOT the design of the trigger (exclusively). Maybe some triggers can be messed up by rework easier than others.........maybe there's a fine line on what can be done and some folks can't hold it.

OK, that maybe shows a picky design, but that by nature of being picky doesn't make it a dangerous design.
 
hm1996,

You saw a lot of rigs come in with complaints, but were they all verified (just because you did something and the problem never happened again that doesn't mean you really fixed the exact problem).

Again, this type of info, without proper problem solving and science based fact, is what fuels the liberal agenda.

Prove to me that those problems were real, attributed to defective factory machining, assembly or adjustment.

With emotionalist jurors and liberal courts I'd expect Remington to have gone under if the problem was real or as described.

I hope they can fight off the current onslaught of hype and prevail.

As for the folks in the crockumentary, shame they blasted others and not themselves. Stupid and or evil people, we have too darn many of them on this rock.
 
again, Walker, the guy who designed the trigger, is still alive & has said that his trigger is a flawed design. In light of that fact, how can anyone claim that there can be no problem with it?

Internally it's a 2 piece trigger. Other triggers are only one piece. If anything gets between those 2 pieces where they engage, the gun may fire.

It can be new, or 50 years old, or anything in between. It could come from the factory with grit or other debris inside, or you could unknowingly introduce some when you clean the rifle. There's no way to visually inspect for it.
 
Another thing that is seemingly odd to me is that I haven't heard a word about any of these "issues" in many of years. Next thing you know, a left-wing "documentary" airs and all of a sudden every other guy on the internet has had it happen. Coincidence?.....
 
Mike Walker is 97 years old and would say anything to get those LW buttholes out of his house, IMO. He simply doesn't care anymore.

They said they were "invited" by Mr. Walker. But that's not what he said:



Anyhoo, I'm done here. Anyone who wants to sell their old school 700 triggers let me know......
 
If not of his mind's perfect design, and/or if snubbed by not getting the "improved" design used, he might make such claims. Dunno he could have a character flaw, or have some musguided guilt thing going on (or he could have a legit complaint, but then of what magnitude the concern).

It may not be the perfect trigger, if so then that could be deemed "flawed" but then any product of any error, in design or in manufacuring, or even dumbarsed public usage, could be deemed "flawed".

Until you make guns perfectly idiot proof, all designs will be "flawed".

That's the way the lawyers are pushing for it I bet.

I for one am super annoyed at Ruger for putting warning labels on their barrels, or for Smith using "lawyer locks" and for Colt using the crappy series 80 safety system.

There is a LOT of hype on this subject, seen some of it on this thread. Less than scientific study of events, knee jerk reactions and the immediate trasnfer of info.........without employing factual detail filters............adds to the mess.

Not saying 700 triggers might not be bad once in a while, in factory state, or that they over time may not experience an issue, with no contamination or wear problem.

If so it'd be hard to prove, what with all the variables.

I suspect that if there is a true problem it is much much smaller than what is being put forth.

As for experts and the weight of their testimony.

A freakin ton of experts thought the current President was gonna be the next Messiah.

Bet those gusy are wrong, and many of them students of politics/social studies and truly heartfelt their comments.

One can be knowledgeable, of good character and still be wrong.

I want experimental statistical proof.

Until then I aint buying it, but will keep all my guns pointed safe
wink.gif
 
On a kinda sorta related note.........what say the masses (of this forum) about the Colt Series 80 or 90 safety system? (compared to Series 70)

Is it good?

Does it address a possible risk without adding further risk?

"spluggle, spluggle, spluggle"

(topwater lures this soon after a thaw might get a hit)
 
I guess I must have missed the part in the manual that says this gun may accidentally discharge under the first 100 rounds.
Come on, lets change the rules to fit the denial.
Remington was satisfied at my expense to have their certified smith check it out.
Usually where there's smoke there's fire. This one has been smokin since before it went in to production.
 
Certified smiths must do all tests by the book (the correct one), do extra checks just in case, and all the work themselves...........with never a mistake........yeah right.

It LOOKS like they did the right stuff, but that doesn't mean the right stuff was done.

During checks they can induce a problem or remove one without ever knowing it.

If there is a design problem it should be repeatable per item and or conditions.
 
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Here's my personal bottom line:

Over a period of decades there are a lot of dead & wounded from rifles using this trigger. I don't care if you agree with Belk's assessment as to why, attribute it to improper adjustment, cleaning or alien visitors with special powers. It has continued to happen for decades.

I decided that I just don't trust the trigger. I see a replacement trigger (and I've never heard of suit for this involving any after market trigger) as cheap insurance on the hardware side of the deal. Plus, those triggers are better any way, many people replace the original for that reason alone.

You may decide differently & I'm OK with that. I just want you to be safe with your rifle.

If you don't replace your trigger, at least be aware that there have been incidents. This is a gun safety issue. Don't become complacent & assume all will be well, follow basic gun safety rules. In particular regarding what you allow your muzzle to cover.
 
Well if a person does everything humanly possible to meet the makers requirements and it still happens then what. So now every smith is incompetent if it happens on their watch.

If the trigger design is so sensitive that being checked or cleaned can induce the problem your trying to avoid, I don't want it.

Here is a design problem especially if the known problem can be induced by checking it.
Essentially this amounts to double talk. Don't have to worry about this on other makes or reportedly on the new Rem trigger.
 
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