Continuiong the 9 vs 45 thread with real world experience (very long)

From the pics and context I can't tell if you're rationalizing or have left out some other facts that truly justify your 9mm stance.

I understand all about tough times and the lack of $, BTDT and sold darn near everything I owned.

Kept my Colt Commander though
wink.gif
 
I'm going to offer up a slightly different spin on a couple of things in this thread...
ohmy.gif


First....The issue with what happens when you are confronted with a gun battle in a real-life situation.

There is no rule that covers "everyone" in that situation. Personalities and reactions are all different. But, in most cases that I'm aware of, or have experience with are this:

In the first or 10th armed confrontation you will revert back to your training & experience. The more training you have, the better. You will still get 'tunnel vision', but your actions under fire are largely dictated by your training. (There have been dead police officers found with empty brass in their pockets......This was due to their range officer making them "save the brass" while at the police range during training.) I do know that the person with the coolest head and able to focus on the target with aimed fire will most likely be the one going home afterwards.
wink.gif


Second.....

In my humble opinion, both the .45 ACP and the 9mm are NOT enough power for a gunfight.

The .45 is better, but still not as good as say a .41 or .44 magnum.
blink.gif


The difference in a 9mm and a .45 in a gunfight- (taking for granted the 9mm has a capacity of 15 and the .45 has a capacity of 8).....I would take the .45 every time, and know that I have 8 shots before I have to reload, and know that I have to make them count. In most cases, niether the 9mm or the .45 will be reloaded with a fresh magazine. (There simply isn't enough time.)

Third.....

The Hollywood Gunfight.
blink.gif


The point that was driven home to me about that fiasco was that at the time the police would not have benefited from either a 9mm or a .45, or even a .40 or a shotgun for that matter.

What that video showed was that the bank robbers would have been dead and on the ground LONG before they were if the police had been armed with, and trained with high powered, high capacity rifles. One or two officers returning fire with a good AR-15 would have put an end to that nonsense way sooner.

That was indeed a textbook case of a severe need for a rifle and a few cops that knew how to use one.
thumbup1.gif


Just my opinion. Your milage may vary.

Barry
 
Quote:You cannot knock on the 9mm when if not for that all you have is your hands. In reality, if it's a survival situation, anything from a sharpened lead pencil to a handgun in your hand is better than nothing...

This type of discussion has been going on for years in many quarters and never has been, or will be, settled to everyone's satisfaction...Personal opinions and experiences are just too varied..I've been witness to many situations that 'shouldn't have been successful' (and have been), and some that should have been and weren't...

Physical and mental preparation training will ultimately succeed over the degree of firepower argument in most situations...It's not the size of the tool, but the preparation, willingness, and ability to use it, that will generally get you through the incident...
 
All I know is I agree with Greg, the original poster. Bigger bullets are better stoppers. Hard to argue with, in my mind.........
 
Originally Posted By: rockinbbar
In my humble opinion, both the .45 ACP and the 9mm are NOT enough power for a gunfight.

The .45 is better, but still not as good as say a .41 or .44 magnum.
blink.gif


Barry

I agree. If I knew I was going to be in a gunfight, I would
bring my AR-15 in 6.8mm SPC. Hard to conceal that weapon.
So I am stuck with a 45 ACP. Mine holds 14 rounds, and I
practice tactical scenarios two to three times a month. Yes
from my experience, tunnel vision will happen, and one will
react like one trains...No training, odds are no effective
reaction.

And I use to carry a 41 mag, in AK, for bear...Not enough gun
either. Since leaving AK, and my 41 mag with a friend, I
felt naked. I recently purchased a 10mm Glock, and am working
SD loads up for it. I have a 1911 that puts 200 gr. XTP
bullets over my chronograph at 1100 FPS
thumbup1.gif
So
far I have only been able to get this Glock barrel to launch
180 gr. XTP .40 bullets at 1200 FPS. I think I need a broach
cut barrel, with a bit more barrel to get to 1300-1400 fps,
but it brings 16 rounds to the fight. My rule of thumb is
always carry as much gun as you can...And it probably won't
be enough.

One of the points in the 9mm vs. 45 ACP discussion that
hasn't been made, is we can argue about stopping power, round
count, shot placement, tissue damage, etc. and it really is
fairly subjective. What is not subjective is the ability of a
bullet to break bones. An arm bone, puts one arm out of the
fight, a leg bone puts the assailant on the ground. There are
several studies out about which round is most likely to break
bones. There is one out of the Atlanta area, from a Coroners
office, that logs much empherical evidence that a 40 S&W
breaks more bones than a 9mm, and a 45 ACP breaks more bones
than a 40 S&W. There were some vivid wound descriptions of 9mm
hollow points, deflecting off leg bones, and a few cases of
where the bullets actually broke bones. For the 45 ACP wounds
most bone hits resulted in bone breaks, with very few
deflections. The physics say a faster lighter bullet will
be more likely to change direction than a slower heavier
bullet, and their case studies seem to prove that out.
It was an interesting read in that they had a lot more 9mm
wounds to study as the gang bangers provided many cases for
the study. For the 45 ACP wounds, most came from law
enforcement engagements. The conclusion was both cartridges
created similar wound channels, but if the wound channel
included a bone, the odds it would break were dramatically
increased if the bullet was from a 45 ACP. The only real
stopping power is when a leg bone, or a spine, or a brain
goes, POP. So even with good shot placement, a bigger bullet
increases the odds of an assailant on the ground.

Squeeze
 
I don't know the statistics, but I would venture a guess that a couple rounds from any of the common personal defense calibers, to the chest would stop the attack most of the time for most people.

That being said you should carry as much gun as you can handle.

Although im glad to see this hasn't turned into a "two is one, one is none" debate.
smile.gif
 
Hunters I think fail to understand just what evil is out there.

I learned long ago handgunning chucks that you shoot, shoot and shoot and then see what the heck happened.

You don't go "bang" and see what your shot's effect had. Lots of guys lose deer to that mentality, justify the lack of round expenditure on the "theory" of wasting meat on multiple hits, or having some depression era carryover of ammunition extreme value.

Handguns pretty much suck as far as immediate killing power, so use a big one, shoot it well, use your brain so you minimize the chance you'll need the gun......but if you do use it, hit 'em hard and repeatedly.

Not just "hit 'em".

Extra ammo is a good thing.

Scared me pretty good years ago, 3 thugs in a drugstore........and me with a revolver and no speedloader.

Got the drop and the idiots fled. Was a scary deal.

I started carrying 6+ rounds after that.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: TripleDeuce6609mm and 45 are both girly guns.

Go 10mm or Go home.

There is just no comparison!

joke10.jpg


Glock013.jpg






Dang it! Now I have to clean the snort juice up off my
keyboard. Now that is funny.

Squeeze
 
Originally Posted By: TripleDeuce6609mm and 45 are both girly guns.

Go 10mm or Go home.

There is just no comparison!

joke10.jpg


Glock013.jpg






That was a goodun!
 
Originally Posted By: TripleDeuce6609mm and 45 are both girly guns.

Go 10mm or Go home.

There is just no comparison!

joke10.jpg


Glock013.jpg






This is the only really new information I received in this thread so far!

I already know I would rather have the biggest rifle I can shoot effectively in a gun fight (or a 10ga shotgun with buck shot depending on the distance). I already knew that I should shoot the biggest gun I could carry and shoot well. I already knew that I am better with a 9mm, or a .22short, or a baseball bat, or a knife, or a sharp pencil, or EVEN A BALL-POINT PEN over my hands for defense (especially since I have a back problem that makes me weak like a kid sometimes). The one thing I didn't know is that someone ever made such a humorous picture to sum up SO MANY handgun caliber arguments.
 
The caliber must meet certain criteria:

1. Affordability: practice makes perfect. If you cant hit it you cant kill it , no matter how big and powerful the caliber is.

2. Shootability: If it jumps out of your hand you better make the first one count, reset will be impossible under stress , god forbid if you have multiple adversaries.

3. Killability: All the mentioned calibers have proven they can kill....with the right ammo. Mottom line is its a handgun, you need to be able to shoot quickly, accurately, multiple times.
 
Back
Top