Democrats (Teachers) Behaving Badly

I have to "second" Leon's post... While as a law enforcement office, I was prohibited by policy/law from getting politically involved while active... If I chose to voice my positions publicly, it had to be as a private citizen and preferably while on an authorized unpaid 'leave of absence' from the job... I think the same should apply to any other tax paid employee...

By the same token, if any of my subordinates were using 'sick leave' for less than legitimate reasons, it was my duty, as a supervisor, to investigate that validity and take remedial actions, including suspension, if found to be other than legitimate...

I think the the legislators that left the state to avoid the possible vote on the subject should be charged with Malfeasance of Office, as well...
 
Originally Posted By: jeffoOriginally Posted By: NM LeonQuote:In the case of teachers it also ignores the disparity of hours worked per year. Very few jobs require as few hours work per year as does teaching.


Quote:That one statement alone proves to me that you really DON'T know the first thing about being a teacher. Keep to your internet stats, I'll keep to the real world. Oh, and sorry for all your cronies here who stand around slapping each other on the butt. You're still a hero to them.


Well...you CAN get the statistics online, starting with The US Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics, but if you want to spend the money you can get their studies in print as well.

They say that nationwide, the median work-year for public school teachers is 180 vs 250 overall (2008). I'll leave it to you as to whether or not you want to try the online or print method, but I challenge you to find a profession with fewer days worked per year than teaching (there aren't any).

I admit that I don't know what your contract in WI says though. Do you guys not get summer, Christmas, and spring breaks?

That IS the "real world" jeffo, your ACT and NEA propaganda is fantasy.







Would you count the 10+ hours a week the average teacher spends at home correcting papers, doing lesson plans, etc. as work? I would. When the whistle blows I don't hang up my hard hat and meet my buddies for a cold one. I take the work home. Do I have to? Is it in my contract? NO! Why, then, do I do it. You figure it out. So what do you do with all your time during the months the kids are out of school? Notice I said MONTHS. Teachers around here enjoy a 2.5 month vacation every year. That would be one helluva sweet deal in the private sector world! Oh, and lets not forget all the vacation days during the actual working months, geez what are you bitching about?
 
Quote:Nice choice of words. Wrong, but nice. Fake doctors' excuses? That's a new one. FOX news should interview you. Interesting and delusional. But well-spoken.

Really jeffo, you need to try to get a better grip on objective reality. Besides Stu's video link above, showing the fake doctor excuses, here's one where the student says the teachers brought them to the protest (though the students have no idea what they are supposed to be protesting).

I know when my kids were in school the school/teachers couldn't take them anywhere without written permission. Is WI law different?

I'd be prosecuting to the full extent of the law.





 
Quote:Teachers around here enjoy a 2.5 month vacation every year I don't know what the requirements are in your state, but here in MO, the teachers have to attend a specific number of college level courses every so often to maintain their teaching certifications and these courses are usually done during their Summer "vacation" months, at their expense and travel...

I have several friends that are teachers and what they have to put up with during the school year is not 'fun' for them with the problem students, parents and lack of administrative support that they have to endure... I don't envy some of their problems...

But neither do I support or condone the attitudes and practices that are happening in Wisconsin...
 
It would seem to me that all non essentials should be cut too. Like after school sports. I'm not saying, "cut PE classes", but baseball, football, basketball,etc... These could be slashed to help cut the budget and release money the state desperately needs.

I really don't know what the Democrats are worried about, they can always come back and fix this bill, just like they are going to do with Obama care, and the way they are going to crack down on wasteful spending at the federal level.
 
Many (most?) professions where certification and/or licensing is required, also require CE, CEU, or Recertification periodically.

The norm is that you are expected to get the hours/units/recert on your own time and usually on your own nickle.

I currently have two certifications that require (expensive) recert every two years, and have let a couple of others lapse just because it was no longer worth the expense to keep them current.

Teachers are nothing special in that respect, except that the amount of time off they have generally means they don't have to try to find the time on weekends and evenings.

They are also nothing special in having to deal with unpleasant aspects of a job. Is there any job that's fun all the time?

I can personally tell you that working a 20hr shift while wearing 50 lbs of body armor in 115 degree heat and getting shot at while doing it...sucks...but nobody was forcing me to do it, it was my choice.

Same applies for teachers. If you don't like your job, get another one.
 
Originally Posted By: RubenatorOriginally Posted By: jeffoOriginally Posted By: NM LeonQuote:In the case of teachers it also ignores the disparity of hours worked per year. Very few jobs require as few hours work per year as does teaching.


Quote:That one statement alone proves to me that you really DON'T know the first thing about being a teacher. Keep to your internet stats, I'll keep to the real world. Oh, and sorry for all your cronies here who stand around slapping each other on the butt. You're still a hero to them.


Well...you CAN get the statistics online, starting with The US Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics, but if you want to spend the money you can get their studies in print as well.

They say that nationwide, the median work-year for public school teachers is 180 vs 250 overall (2008). I'll leave it to you as to whether or not you want to try the online or print method, but I challenge you to find a profession with fewer days worked per year than teaching (there aren't any).

I admit that I don't know what your contract in WI says though. Do you guys not get summer, Christmas, and spring breaks?

That IS the "real world" jeffo, your ACT and NEA propaganda is fantasy.







Would you count the 10+ hours a week the average teacher spends at home correcting papers, doing lesson plans, etc. as work? I would. When the whistle blows I don't hang up my hard hat and meet my buddies for a cold one. I take the work home. Do I have to? Is it in my contract? NO! Why, then, do I do it. You figure it out. So what do you do with all your time during the months the kids are out of school? Notice I said MONTHS. Teachers around here enjoy a 2.5 month vacation every year. That would be one helluva sweet deal in the private sector world! Oh, and lets not forget all the vacation days during the actual working months, geez what are you bitching about?



I'm not the one bitching. I didn't start this. I'm just trying to explain something that I guess is way beyond most guys here. Forget it. It's Sunday and I have papers to grade. Watch a ball game for me.
 
Originally Posted By: jeffo
Take it from the wealthy - they can afford it easily.


madison_110219_commies_02.jpg


Is that you in the red scarf Jeffo?
 
Originally Posted By: redeyeddawgOriginally Posted By: jeffo
Take it from the wealthy - they can afford it easily.


madison_110219_commies_02.jpg


Is that you in the red scarf Jeffo?



We're going there now? Grow up dawg.
 
Job conditions... I'm a commercial beekeeper. Try dealing with 40 - 50 million insects with attitude daily and we'll talk working conditions.

Salary... We're close.

Time off... Not even!

10 hour a week after class... Try 60 to 100 hrs/week as the norm, 6 months out of the year. 50 hrs a week the remainder.

Benefits... Not even!

My choice... Yep! And, teaching was yours Jeffo.

I'm not whining about my job. But your post about the unions enabling everyone's buying power was BS. When a $20,000 car costs $50,000 because of the unions bargaining power, you're destroying the middle class' purchasing power. Plain and simple!

And, if all you educated folks that are teaching in Wisconsin aren't intelligent enough to figure out that this country has to take DRASTIC steps to come out of the hole we are burrying ourselves in, you're as dammed dumb as the politicians we have been electing. I am appalled by the complete and total disregard for the financial well being of this country by our government. I am appalled by the complete and total disregard for complying with a balanced budget by our government. I am appalled by the complete and total disregard for the financial mess unions have made of this country. And, I am sorely disappointed in the educators in the state of Wisconsin, for walking out on their jobs, when so many in this country are without a job, without a salary, without any benefits, without a meal or a table to place it upon; while you people walk out to whine about a paltry increase in your contribution to benefits received and your union being broken.

And, the politicians that walked out, should all be removed from office for this mutinous act of conspiracy, and replaced by their republican counterparts, as the second choice of the people in the last general election, for failure to fulfill the responsibility of their elected position.

I do not in any way disrespect your profession, but I do sorely disagree with the position your union has put you in there in Wisconsin.
 
Quote:I'm just trying to explain something that I guess is way beyond most guys here.

I HOPE that your Marxist/Leninist claptrap is "beyond" the majority of not only the American taxpayers, but the American electorate as well.
 
Originally Posted By: NM LeonQuote:I'm just trying to explain something that I guess is way beyond most guys here.

I HOPE that your Marxist/Leninist claptrap is "beyond" the majority of not only the American taxpayers, but the American electorate as well.




That wouldn't take much, would it?
 
Originally Posted By: Rocky1Job conditions... I'm a commercial beekeeper. Try dealing with 40 - 50 million insects with attitude daily and we'll talk working conditions.

Salary... We're close.

Time off... Not even!

10 hour a week after class... Try 60 to 100 hrs/week as the norm, 6 months out of the year. 50 hrs a week the remainder.

Benefits... Not even!

My choice... Yep! And, teaching was yours Jeffo.

I'm not whining about my job. But your post about the unions enabling everyone's buying power was BS. When a $20,000 car costs $50,000 because of the unions bargaining power, you're destroying the middle class' purchasing power. Plain and simple!

And, if all you educated folks that are teaching in Wisconsin aren't intelligent enough to figure out that this country has to take DRASTIC steps to come out of the hole we are burrying ourselves in, you're as dammed dumb as the politicians we have been electing. I am appalled by the complete and total disregard for the financial well being of this country by our government. I am appalled by the complete and total disregard for complying with a balanced budget by our government. I am appalled by the complete and total disregard for the financial mess unions have made of this country. And, I am sorely disappointed in the educators in the state of Wisconsin, for walking out on their jobs, when so many in this country are without a job, without a salary, without any benefits, without a meal or a table to place it upon; while you people walk out to whine about a paltry increase in your contribution to benefits received and your union being broken.

And, the politicians that walked out, should all be removed from office for this mutinous act of conspiracy, and replaced by their republican counterparts, as the second choice of the people in the last general election, for failure to fulfill the responsibility of their elected position.

I do not in any way disrespect your profession, but I do sorely disagree with the position your union has put you in there in Wisconsin.



To which post are you referring, sir?
 
Quote:I HOPE that your Marxist/Leninist claptrap is "beyond" the majority of not only the American taxpayers, but the American electorate as well.

Quote:That wouldn't take much, would it?


After 50 years of increasingly poor quality and socialist dominated government monopoly education, maybe not.
 
Originally Posted By: Rocky1Job conditions... I'm a commercial beekeeper. Try dealing with 40 - 50 million insects with attitude daily and we'll talk working conditions.

Salary... We're close.

Time off... Not even!

10 hour a week after class... Try 60 to 100 hrs/week as the norm, 6 months out of the year. 50 hrs a week the remainder.

Benefits... Not even!

My choice... Yep! And, teaching was yours Jeffo.

I'm not whining about my job. But your post about the unions enabling everyone's buying power was BS. When a $20,000 car costs $50,000 because of the unions bargaining power, you're destroying the middle class' purchasing power. Plain and simple!

And, if all you educated folks that are teaching in Wisconsin aren't intelligent enough to figure out that this country has to take DRASTIC steps to come out of the hole we are burrying ourselves in, you're as dammed dumb as the politicians we have been electing. I am appalled by the complete and total disregard for the financial well being of this country by our government. I am appalled by the complete and total disregard for complying with a balanced budget by our government. I am appalled by the complete and total disregard for the financial mess unions have made of this country. And, I am sorely disappointed in the educators in the state of Wisconsin, for walking out on their jobs, when so many in this country are without a job, without a salary, without any benefits, without a meal or a table to place it upon; while you people walk out to whine about a paltry increase in your contribution to benefits received and your union being broken.

And, the politicians that walked out, should all be removed from office for this mutinous act of conspiracy, and replaced by their republican counterparts, as the second choice of the people in the last general election, for failure to fulfill the responsibility of their elected position.

I do not in any way disrespect your profession, but I do sorely disagree with the position your union has put you in there in Wisconsin.




I'm not doubting the number of hours you "work", I just doubt it's typical. Except for Leon who works twice as much for half your pay.
 
Originally Posted By: NM LeonQuote:I HOPE that your Marxist/Leninist claptrap is "beyond" the majority of not only the American taxpayers, but the American electorate as well.

Quote:That wouldn't take much, would it?


After 50 years of increasingly poor quality and socialist dominated government monopoly education, maybe not.


And what was different 50 years ago? Ethics, values, morales, work ethic. You don't see that from kids OR their parents these days.
 
This has become a less than interesting thread. The major point here is the days of wine and roses are over, the country's broke. It has nothing to do with whether the teachers, firefighters, policemen or other pensioners deserve the pensions or not. We simply can't afford it. I can't remember the last time I ran across a non-government company without unions that offered pensions. The vast majority of us take care of our own 401k plans and those with any sense understand you can't count on Social Security. It's way past time to level the playing field. I and millions like me are responsible for our own retirement, yet we are forced to pay out money to support those feeding at the govt/union tit. Without such forced robbery we might better take care of our own future. At this point I agree that it wouldn't be right to simply cut them off and throw them to the wolves. But there should not be any future grants. Same as you can't simply tell retiree's who've paid into the system to cut bait. It's simply reality staring us in the face. The money isn't there. Time to step up and take care of your own retirement like the rest of us do.

I've paid into my own retirement fund for many years, foregoing instant gratification to prepare for retirement. And I can tell you it is quite scary to sit here and watch my savings take mega hits when things turn sour. I'm talking losses in the 40/50% range. They are improving now, but hey no guarantees. We simply cannot afford to guarantee the future of the govt/union folks any longer.

It will take some genius undertaking to find a fair and equitable way to gradually phase out the govt tit, however, it must be done. Not that we don't appreciate teachers, firemen and Leo, we're broke.
 
Originally Posted By: azmastablastaThis has become a less than interesting thread. The major point here is the days of wine and roses are over, the country's broke. It has nothing to do with whether the teachers, firefighters, policemen or other pensioners deserve the pensions or not. We simply can't afford it. I can't remember the last time I ran across a non-government company without unions that offered pensions. The vast majority of us take care of our own 401k plans and those with any sense understand you can't count on Social Security. It's way past time to level the playing field. I and millions like me are responsible for our own retirement, yet we are forced to pay out money to support those feeding at the govt/union tit. Without such forced robbery we might better take care of our own future. At this point I agree that it wouldn't be right to simply cut them off and throw them to the wolves. But there should not be any future grants. Same as you can't simply tell retiree's who've paid into the system to cut bait. It's simply reality staring us in the face. The money isn't there. Time to step up and take care of your own retirement like the rest of us do.

I've paid into my own retirement fund for many years, foregoing instant gratification to prepare for retirement. And I can tell you it is quite scary to sit here and watch my savings take mega hits when things turn sour. I'm talking losses in the 40/50% range. They are improving now, but hey no guarantees. We simply cannot afford to guarantee the future of the govt/union folks any longer.

It will take some genius undertaking to find a fair and equitable way to gradually phase out the govt tit, however, it must be done. Not that we don't appreciate teachers, firemen and Leo, we're broke. And thats the bottom line!
 
I get all that. So do the police, firefighters, steel workers, nurses, etc. who are in Madison protesting. That's why the unions have offered again and again to concede that part of the bill and pay for pensions and health care. So, we have agreed to pony up the money. But that's not good enough for Walker. He wants to take away collective bargaining rights, all except for salary talks. And even then, unions could only bargain for the CPI, which is zero. This is not about money anymore.
 
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