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#1846393 - 02/16/11 03:49 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: Chris_Brice]
64kodiak Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 283
Loc: mn
Quote:
But comparing killing a called, free rangeing fox for to shooting a fox in a trap is a bad example.


Nonsense. Either the shot is there or it isnt. You wanna fling lead for fox be my guest, I'd suggest a .308 AR.

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#1846424 - 02/16/11 04:16 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: 64kodiak]
DiRTY DOG Offline
Die Hard Member III

Registered: 08/27/09
Posts: 2704
Loc: West
I've successfully taken a handful of foxes with the 17gr Vmax, longest shot was 155 yards DRT, closest 30 yards front gut shot blew out the belly n guts. Almost all are DRT. Never lost a fox with the 17gr Vmax.

Last month I tried the Hornady 20gr XTP soft points. I had two greys come in on the same stand at night. Hit the first one perfect broadside and heard the impact. Fox went down, wiggled, crawled off ten feet into thick brush. Hit the second one quartered away slightly. Heard the impact, he flopped over, then got up a few seconds later and took off into thick brush.

Both shots were 85-90 yards. The first shot was "perfect" broadside, found a good blood trail but lost it 25 yards into the brush. Second shot I'm not sure about since it was now or never but I know I hit him. No blood trail at all. Went back in the day and could not find either one.

So after many successful kills with the 17gr Vmax, and then loosing the first two foxes with the 20gr XTP, I will never use the XTP's again. I suspect they zip right thru with minimal expansion. I hunt in super thick brush so anything that runs more than a few yards might not be revovered. The DRT capability of the 17gr Vmax rules in my opinion.

I'd try the TNT's but accuracy sucks in my gun. Vmax's are the most accurate.
_________________________
Aim small miss small.

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#1846454 - 02/16/11 04:39 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: 64kodiak]
Chupathingy Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/01/07
Posts: 6827
Loc: not here
Originally Posted By: 64kodiak
Quote:
I believe maybe an agenda was behind all of this.


What 'agenda'? The guys is just looking for some verification of his initial thoughts on the matter.

If you don't think the HMR will reliably kill foxes out to 150-200 yards, I'll have to conclude that you've never tried it.

They're the size of feral tomcats for cripes sake. Go ahead and shoot your 300 mag at em, they won't be any deader.


Once again, defense mechanism takes precedent over fact.

I did NOT say that the hummer was ill suited for fox. I have said many times that I think the HMR is a viable fox round. Not %100 sure of 200yds, but I have not taken a shot on a fox at that range either, few foxes around me.

The problem I have is that ".17HMR" has become a buzzword around here and always seems to stir the pot regardless of it's use or intended purpose. The OP said that he had done his research on the matter, but asked again anyway, knowing full well that a "Hula-Baloo" would ensue. That is the agenda I refer to. The consensus on "Is the .17HMR enough gun for COYOTES ?" is well documented here and is open for all to see, so what is the next pot stirring question going to be? FOX? Raging Hamster? It doesn't matter what the target is, it will always be contraversial, and the OP knew this.

Don't pretend to know me or my intentions, my thoughts and intentions are very well layed out in my post. Anything derived from my post that was not expressly written out is on you and your defense of your weapon. In this case, I did NOT say/imply anything untoward of the chambering, that was your assumption.

Stop digging before you can't climb out.


Chupa

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#1846470 - 02/16/11 04:48 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: 64kodiak]
Chupathingy Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/01/07
Posts: 6827
Loc: not here
Originally Posted By: 64kodiak


They're the size of feral tomcats for cripes sake. Go ahead and shoot your 300 mag at em, they won't be any deader.



By the way, I like %90 of the hunting population in North America have no use/demands for the "Super Short Ultra Whizzer Double Belted Magnums". The largest caliber I own is a .30-06 and it will kill anything I point it at here. I see atleast 10 .300Mags at the range on a daily basis here in Texas. What deer here in Texas requires a .300Mag? It makes me laugh. You want to go hunting overseas? Ok, now you have an argument, otherwise it's chest thumping or ignorance.<------refering to Texas.

Why does everyone want to kill with the use of something either minimal or to the opposite extreme?

Chupa

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#1846513 - 02/16/11 05:27 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: Chris_Brice]
getfoxy Offline
PM senior

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 9630
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Chris_Brice
[quote=64kodiak]

As for the "I shot a fox in the chest, it ran off and I found no blood" posts........sounds like a miss to me. Don't worry, happen to all of us.

CB


Go back and read. I said I found little blood. I did find blood. Clearly it was a hit. Thanks anyway

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#1846586 - 02/16/11 06:20 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: Chupathingy]
64kodiak Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 283
Loc: mn
Quote:
Don't pretend to know me or my intentions, my thoughts and intentions are very well layed out in my post.


You inferred the OP had an agenda, I did the same thing to you. The difference is what exactly? Rhetorical.

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#1846587 - 02/16/11 06:21 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: getfoxy]
DAB Offline
Die Hard Member II

Registered: 05/10/09
Posts: 1697
Loc: Sandy Oregon
If the opportunity presented itself to me to kill a fox while hunting with MY 17 HMR and 20 grain bullets and it was with in about 100 to 125 Yds I would shoot to kill.

What I would like to know what is the percentage of Coyotes, Bobcats, Foxes that you have shot that were BANG/flop or DRT... no matter what caliber you were using.
That never spun or ran any where at all. I bet you a dollar to a hole in a doughnut your percentages are very low.

Even on the DVD's I have of predator hunting ( which I have a lot of ) there are not that many BANG / Flop or DRT.

DAB

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#1846601 - 02/16/11 06:31 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: 64kodiak]
Chupathingy Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/01/07
Posts: 6827
Loc: not here
Originally Posted By: 64kodiak
Quote:
Don't pretend to know me or my intentions, my thoughts and intentions are very well layed out in my post.


You inferred the OP had an agenda, I did the same thing to you. The difference is what exactly? Rhetorical.



Any time you ask "Is a .17HMR enough for......?" around here, you know full well you are about to stir up a sh!t storm. You may not know this, because you have been here for the length of a cup of coffee.


Chupa

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#1846649 - 02/16/11 07:09 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: Chupathingy]
64kodiak Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 283
Loc: mn
Quote:
Any time you ask "Is a .17HMR enough for......?" around here, you know full well you are about to stir up a sh!t storm.


I've lurked on these forums for 10 years and have been calling fox for 30 years so yes I know exactly where you're coming from. But the "Is a .17HMR enough for......?" question is still a valid one AND alot of people are newcomers to the sport.

Personally I see alot of oldtimers knee-jerking their answers when it comes to all rimfires. How many of those guys REALLY believe it takes a .223 to kill a 10# critter? That notion is ridiculous IMO and needs further discussion.

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#1846716 - 02/16/11 07:43 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: 64kodiak]
RePete Offline
PM senior

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 5783
Loc: Idaho (Clearwater County)
grin grin grin

Did I mention that I love Hummer threads?
_________________________
Ain't that right Bill?


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#1846728 - 02/16/11 07:48 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: 64kodiak]
Chupathingy Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/01/07
Posts: 6827
Loc: not here
Originally Posted By: 64kodiak
Quote:
Any time you ask "Is a .17HMR enough for......?" around here, you know full well you are about to stir up a sh!t storm.




Personally I see alot of oldtimers knee-jerking their answers when it comes to all rimfires. How many of those guys REALLY believe it takes a .223 to kill a 10# critter? That notion is ridiculous IMO and needs further discussion.



Now we are getting closer to understanding each other. I don't believe the blanket statement of the hummer being ONLY good for varmints. I have even gone so far as to say that in the proper hands it is capable of out doing it's original intents, the key word however is "In the right hands".

When someone says (paraphrasing)"I have done the research, and know the popular consensus, but want to ask anyway". This lends me to think that they want to kick the hornets nest and watch as others deal with it. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. But I bet someone is having a nice laugh as we set here and point fingers.


Chupa

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#1846734 - 02/16/11 07:52 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: Chupathingy]
Orneryolfart357 Offline
PM senior

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 9053
Loc: Nevada
But to really stir it up.. The OP should have also asked which is Better... Savage or Remington.. lol
_________________________




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#1846793 - 02/16/11 08:23 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: Chupathingy]
64kodiak Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 283
Loc: mn
Quote:
This lends me to think that they want to kick the hornets nest and watch as others deal with it.


Maybe he did...lol. It's always fun to argue online. I've done it on the archery forums for years! lol

My position is that in farm country shots of 100 yards and in are the norm. 22 mags and 17 HMRs will take down anything that comes in at those ranges. Also, hunting at night in many states requires rimfires or shotguns.

I love both the 22 mag and the 17 HMR. Given the choice I'd take a 17 HMR. Sometimes in populated areas the muzzle blast of a centerfire can cause some concern from the locals, so a rimfire is more appropriate in certain circumstances.

OF COURSE the centerfires are more lethal, most everyone knows that, and I do I love my .17 REM . However, rimfires can and do effectively take thousands of predators a year. That's all I'm trying to say.


Edited by 64kodiak (02/16/11 08:25 PM)

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#1846866 - 02/16/11 09:01 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: 64kodiak]
Chupathingy Offline
PM senior

Registered: 12/01/07
Posts: 6827
Loc: not here
Originally Posted By: 64kodiak
Quote:
This lends me to think that they want to kick the hornets nest and watch as others deal with it.




OF COURSE the centerfires are more lethal, most everyone knows that, and I do I love my .17 REM . However, rimfires can and do effectively take thousands of predators a year. That's all I'm trying to say.


No argument here on that. Every chambering has it's limitations, I think if a caller/hunter has the skills to put himself in a situation to take game within the limitations, it will certainly work. I have never said any different than that, although some would think otherwise. For instance, MY calling skills make the HMR a VERY limiting chambering for me, but for a guy like Tony Tebbe.....it probably wouldn't even be a mild annoyance for him. Maybe I don't always translate my thought into text as best as I should, but on this topic people seem to mis-interpret what I'm saying often, when in reality my views probably aren't much different than theirs. Would I recommend an HMR for a beginning caller? Nope. The limiting nature of the round coupled with inexperience may turn them off completely to the sport if their success isn't of the percentage that they feel is acceptable.


Chupa

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#1846928 - 02/16/11 09:44 PM Re: 17 hmr for fox? [Re: Chupathingy]
davejohnson3 Offline
Seasoned Member

Registered: 12/03/10
Posts: 136
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: Chupathingy
Originally Posted By: 64kodiak
Quote:
I believe maybe an agenda was behind all of this.


What 'agenda'? The guys is just looking for some verification of his initial thoughts on the matter.

If you don't think the HMR will reliably kill foxes out to 150-200 yards, I'll have to conclude that you've never tried it.

They're the size of feral tomcats for cripes sake. Go ahead and shoot your 300 mag at em, they won't be any deader.


Once again, defense mechanism takes precedent over fact.

I did NOT say that the hummer was ill suited for fox. I have said many times that I think the HMR is a viable fox round. Not %100 sure of 200yds, but I have not taken a shot on a fox at that range either, few foxes around me.

The problem I have is that ".17HMR" has become a buzzword around here and always seems to stir the pot regardless of it's use or intended purpose. The OP said that he had done his research on the matter, but asked again anyway, knowing full well that a "Hula-Baloo" would ensue. That is the agenda I refer to. The consensus on "Is the .17HMR enough gun for COYOTES ?" is well documented here and is open for all to see, so what is the next pot stirring question going to be? FOX? Raging Hamster? It doesn't matter what the target is, it will always be contraversial, and the OP knew this.

Don't pretend to know me or my intentions, my thoughts and intentions are very well layed out in my post. Anything derived from my post that was not expressly written out is on you and your defense of your weapon. In this case, I did NOT say/imply anything untoward of the chambering, that was your assumption.

Stop digging before you can't climb out.


Chupa


how about you stop pretending you know me or my intentions to then? i did some research, yes, and what i found was only a handful of testimonials, i figured i would come on to a reputable forum such as this and try to get a broader spectrum of answers from people with actual experience. no, i am not driving some "secret agenda" what could my agenda possibly be? i just wanted to know if people have killed FOX (not yotes, as you say i will eventually ask next rolleyes) i dont plan on using it for yotes. i think the proof is in the pudding, the guys who use it (17) have gotten a lot of fox, and it seems the guys that bash it have only taken maybe one shot (and probably a bad one) at a fox, not found it, and then say it is never good.

back to topic, i have continued research and i think that the reason people have "runners" with the 20 grain is because it doesnt expand much in the animal like the 17 grain does. i am going to use it wether people like it or not now, as i am confident it will do the job.

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